Injury Mitchell Injured

[mac25]

I am also not convinced we "need" another tall. At least not on top of what we already have.

I am totally convinced we already have our premiership forward line, we had it last year but couldnt keep one of the components on the field for the second half of the season. Walker, Betts, Jeff and ........Waite for it...........Waite at FF.

Hendo at CHF. When Waite was fit Hendo wasnt. When Hendo came in Waite was hampered by injury and then with Jamo and Bower injured we needed Hendo back. With those 2 fit, Hendo is our CHF for mine.

That there is a premiership forwardline. As good as any going around ATM with the possible exception of Hawthorn. Buddy being their big X. If Buddy gets injured or falls away we have them for spread.

The major points here is that unless Watson/McCarthy step up to hold down a key position back post, Henderson is required down back against the Cloke/Dawes and Franklin/Roughead combo and also not sure the reliance on a 29 year old Waite is ideal, Mitchell is the one young geninue key forward option on our list that potentially could have provided us with far less reliance on Waite, getting 6-10 games into him would have been ideal.

 

[40yearBLUE]

The major points here is that unless Watson/McCarthy step up to hold down a key position back post, Henderson is required down back against the Cloke/Dawes and Franklin/Roughead combo and also not sure the reliance on a 29 year old Waite is ideal, Mitchell is the one young geninue key forward option on our list that potentially could have provided us with far less reliance on Waite, getting 6-10 games into him would have been ideal.

I think you underestimate how good Bower can be when fit. He and Jamo worked well together and can again.

In part this thread bemoans the loss of Mitchell but you rightly point out that perhaps we are in as much need of Watson/McCarthy stepping up as we were about Mitchell, if only to release Hendo back to CHF. And I agree that longer term we need to be grooming our replacement for an ageing Waite. And I am sure that was and still is the plan with Mitchell. And as you also point out, perhaps the plan was that he get a few games to give him a taste, to help his development, but a taste or not, is not a major blow to team this year, if it does not happen, it just slows his development a little is all. He will be back to playing VFL about round 8-10, thats still plenty of time to show the potential for a senior call up, and still get 6 - 10 games into to him. Hell he could break in late season and not have been "worked out" by the opposition due to lack of exposure and provide a fillip just in time for finals. Who knows. What we do know is that we dont know. We dont know if even fully fit, he has what it takes to make it. We dont know if his body is up to it, after all, we thought many a kp prospect was going to make it in the past only for their body to let them down (Hartlett for example). So lets not get all woo woo over a player that hasnt yet had a taste. Lets just let it play out and see what is what. I still have us a top 2 finish this year.

 

[mac25]

I think you underestimate how good Bower can be when fit. He and Jamo worked well together and can again.

In part this thread bemoans the loss of Mitchell but you rightly point out that perhaps we are in as much need of Watson/McCarthy stepping up as we were about Mitchell, if only to release Hendo back to CHF. And I agree that longer term we need to be grooming our replacement for an ageing Waite. And I am sure that was and still is the plan with Mitchell. And as you also point out, perhaps the plan was that he get a few games to give him a taste, to help his development, but a taste or not, is not a major blow to team this year, if it does not happen, it just slows his development a little is all. He will be back to playing VFL about round 8-10, thats still plenty of time to show the potential for a senior call up, and still get 6 - 10 games into to him. Hell he could break in late season and not have been "worked out" by the opposition due to lack of exposure and provide a fillip just in time for finals. Who knows. What we do know is that we dont know. We dont know if even fully fit, he has what it takes to make it. We dont know if his body is up to it, after all, we thought many a kp prospect was going to make it in the past only for their body to let them down (Hartlett for example). So lets not get all woo woo over a player that hasnt yet had a taste. Lets just let it play out and see what is what. I still have us a top 2 finish this year.

Bower is NOT a key position defender, he gets outbodied by the strong tall forwards, he is really a third defender, had he been a key defender no doubt many clubs would have chased in the trade period.

His best role is off a half back flank, which he will be fighting with a number of players, both Watson/McCarthy look more suited to this role in the next few years, until they are ready, Henderson is likely to stay down back which he is very capable in this role.

 

[audas]

Mitchell is not just a 'tall'...

The terms 'presense' and 'aggression' are something that this monster would bring to the table...

Yes we have a forward structure that is well balanced against 3 qtrs of the competition but against the top 4 sides we sometimes lack some anger and intimidation....

Mitchell brings this...

In which game ? Or is that speculation based on training and reserves ?


Whats more Hampson brings a lot more to the table, he's bigger and taller, as I've been saying watch out for a big season from Hammer - if he is crashing, Sticking, kicking and then we are completely set - If Hammer fires, and I reckon he might, then Mitchel may not get a spot ......

You're just COMPLETELY writing him off, .............maybe you shouldn't.

 

[audas]

Rowe's done his AC, Mitchell needs a reco and Duigan has had knee surgery.

Knees and shoulders hips and feet, knees and shoulders hips and feet and whiskers on your nose......

 

[goreds]

In which game ? Or is that speculation based on training and reserves ?


Whats more Hampson brings a lot more to the table, he's bigger and taller, as I've been saying watch out for a big season from Hammer - if he is crashing, Sticking, kicking and then we are completely set - If Hammer fires, and I reckon he might, then Mitchel may not get a spot ......

You're just COMPLETELY writing him off, .............maybe you shouldn't.

Hammer is in my side already...

 

[parrot]

In a way it's positive it's happened right now rather than latter on in the season because it means he'll be available latter on in the year. Plus he's had the "Walker Operation" this time, which should prove more successful and give a more durable outcome. Disappointing for Luke, but hardly a disaster as he's only just entering his 2nd year as a KPF, and is going to be a big part of our future. His physical development has been sensational thus far, and he's a natural KPF. Can't wait till his debut. It's also a great opportunity for the other KPF contenders to stake a claim for that KPF spot.

 

[Subliminal_Revolution]

Still reckon Thornton has a lot of offer as a 3rd tall forward - his lead up marking in the EF was outstanding. He's found his niche.

I agree with Thornton as the 3rd tall. He absolutely killed it in the EF. Even the commentators were saying that was the best game they've seen him play. He's found his position.

 

[Subliminal_Revolution]

Not silly at all. I also think Russell could play off a hff as he was heading towards before being sent back all those years ago when he was the BF whipping boy and his confidence seemed to be troubling him. Some also think (I am not so sure) that Touhy is a potential hff, and of course there is Collins who was a forward at the Tigers.

Not sure it addresses the percieved issue we have with a "tall" forward. If Waite and Hendo stay fit forward, and Jamo and Bower stay fit back, Thornton as a swingman.....we dont have any issues. If we are to fill the spot with a left field choice I think Watson, who has a fantastic kick on him would make a great forward, if he marked anywhere between centre and the arc he is a chance to goal. Waite at FF, Hendo at CHF as the roaming push up type, Tex on one forward flank also pushing all the way back to the HB

I really don't think the positions will happen that way. Henderson has been training as a backman, so you'll find he'll play out this season in the backline with Jamison.

 

[40yearBLUE]

I really don't think the positions will happen that way. Henderson has been training as a backman, so you'll find he'll play out this season in the backline with Jamison.

Its not my opinion, well actually it is but its based on what the coach says. Ratts said in a press conference on his way to Dubai, (Age/3AW, there is a link in the training thread I think) that he is looking for players such as Watson to step up so he can return Hendo to the forward line. I'll go with that. Makes perfect sense to me. He is a 50 game backman and a 150 game KP forward.

 

[Subliminal_Revolution]

Its not my opinion, well actually it is but its based on what the coach says. Ratts said in a press conference on his way to Dubai, (Age/3AW, there is a link in the training thread I think) that he is looking for players such as Watson to step up so he can return Hendo to the forward line. I'll go with that. Makes perfect sense to me. He is a 50 game backman and a 150 game KP forward.

Yeah you're probably right, but in my opinion from all the Carlton games I've seen, Henderson is a much better backman. I'd rather see in him play in backline with Jamison that at CHF.

Luckily, it isn't us who select the team. Too many headaches for my liking. The depth is an amazing thing though.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Yeah you're probably right, but in my opinion from all the Carlton games I've seen, Henderson is a much better backman. I'd rather see in him play in backline with Jamison that at CHF.

Luckily, it isn't us who select the team. Too many headaches for my liking. The depth is an amazing thing though.

I dont disagree with you that he is a gun CHB. The Essendon final really impressed me. And the previous H&A Essendon game too, he played really well, there was a particular passage where Gibbs got back to the HB flank and turned as he jumped to spoil so as not to give a front on spoil free away, it ended up with a Hendo give and get, running about 25 meters, hand pass to Murph, hand pass to Eddie running into 50, hand pass to Yazz GOAL. All set up by Hendo's attack on the footy.

But I cant stop seeing his performance against Brisbane in Rd 10 or so last year where he had 8 marks inside 50 in the first half alone and set up so many goals. At half time he was BOG by a long way for mine. Set up our match winning lead. He went back shortly if not the next week after that......

HE IS A BORN CHF. It was his over riding motivation in agreeing to the Fev trade, he wasnt getting a go in the fwd line with Brown and Bradshaw in the team.

He will be a multiple premiership CHF by the time his career comes to an end in my opinion.

 

[I bleed Blue]

Just thinking that's its pretty impressive stuff for us to have Mitchell injured one day and have a reco done the next.

It comes across as we're not taking a wait and see approach in these things any more.

No mucking around thats for sure.

Its great that the club is thinking long term. Its better to just get all of this out of the way for Luke now, and set him up as best as possible to have a long and successful career.



Just on Hendo, eventually I think he will switch back to the forward line, but this season he is a lock for CHB. He showed how capable he is last year and I fully expect him to stay down back this year.

Id be much more confident in a backline with Jamo and Hendo, than a backline with Jamo and Bower as the KPP.

 

[ClassyCarlton]

Bad news for Luke and for all of the team and supporters.

But....a bit of perspective please.

As many of the posters on here have pointed out: we did pretty well last year without him after all.

I think with all of our options for the tall-crash-and-bash forward at least one will work out.

Thornton
Kreuzer
Hampson
Rowe
Casboult

If they don't work out, we can think outside the square about repositioning players (such as Hendo, Watson etc)

I mean with the quality of our other forwards we don't really need an absolute gun of a forward (of course I would love it if we did have one..) we just need a big body who can show some consistency in form.

I mean if even one from the above list could frequently provide a contest, position themselves well, take some marks and kick 2/3 + goals a week on a consistent basis we will be premiership contenders.

 

[Jack TY]

Jamo = 60 + goal kicker for Carlton.

Pffffffft........ close to the best full back in the comp won't be kicking too many. May pinch hit here and there.

 

[Blues_FC]

Pffffffft........ close to the best full back in the comp won't be kicking too many. May pinch hit here and there.

From what I've seen at training, Jamo certainly spends a decent amount of time practising his set shot kicking.

Just sayin...

 

[gbatman]

Pffffffft........ close to the best full back in the comp won't be kicking too many. May pinch hit here and there.

SOS was the best full back of last century and he kicked over 200 career goals.

 

[audas]

I dont disagree with you that he is a gun CHB. The Essendon final really impressed me. And the previous H&A Essendon game too, he played really well, there was a particular passage where Gibbs got back to the HB flank and turned as he jumped to spoil so as not to give a front on spoil free away, it ended up with a Hendo give and get, running about 25 meters, hand pass to Murph, hand pass to Eddie running into 50, hand pass to Yazz GOAL. All set up by Hendo's attack on the footy.

But I cant stop seeing his performance against Brisbane in Rd 10 or so last year where he had 8 marks inside 50 in the first half alone and set up so many goals. At half time he was BOG by a long way for mine. Set up our match winning lead. He went back shortly if not the next week after that......

HE IS A BORN CHF. It was his over riding motivation in agreeing to the Fev trade, he wasnt getting a go in the fwd line with Brown and Bradshaw in the team.

He will be a multiple premiership CHF by the time his career comes to an end in my opinion.

The problem with Hendo is exactly that - he is very, very consistently good in the backline, and the REASON he was put there was because he literally couldn't touch the footy in the forward line.

I remember going and watching him in the ANTS, and just thinking this guy can barely play footy. He appeared to be shorter than Eddie Betts - now this may very, very well be a confidence thing, in fact it probably is. But that is why he was in the back - couldn't get near the footy.

Having someone with that kind of temperament like Fev, where an off day means we wont get a touch, which is entirely due to above the shoulder injury, is unforgivable footy.

Players like Kernahan, Locket, Cloak, Brown etc, etc will always be there abouts, every game as they don't wander off mentally.

If Hendo can get his head right - send him forward.

Thats why I prefer the idea of Hammer, he doesn't seem to be thinking about too much and if we can teach him to smash the packs, stick the mark and kick straight then bueaty.

 

[Silvagnis]

The problem with Hendo is exactly that - he is very, very consistently good in the backline, and the REASON he was put there was because he literally couldn't touch the footy in the forward line.

I remember going and watching him in the ANTS, and just thinking this guy can barely play footy. He appeared to be shorter than Eddie Betts - now this may very, very well be a confidence thing, in fact it probably is. But that is why he was in the back - couldn't get near the footy.

Having someone with that kind of temperament like Fev, where an off day means we wont get a touch, which is entirely due to above the shoulder injury, is unforgivable footy.

Players like Kernahan, Locket, Cloak, Brown etc, etc will always be there abouts, every game as they don't wander off mentally.

If Hendo can get his head right - send him forward.

Thats why I prefer the idea of Hammer, he doesn't seem to be thinking about too much and if we can teach him to smash the packs, stick the mark and kick straight then bueaty.

Have you seen Henderson play?

 

[40yearBLUE]

The problem with Hendo is exactly that - he is very, very consistently good in the backline, and the REASON he was put there was because he literally couldn't touch the footy in the forward line.

I remember going and watching him in the ANTS, and just thinking this guy can barely play footy. He appeared to be shorter than Eddie Betts - now this may very, very well be a confidence thing, in fact it probably is. But that is why he was in the back - couldn't get near the footy.

Having someone with that kind of temperament like Fev, where an off day means we wont get a touch, which is entirely due to above the shoulder injury, is unforgivable footy.

Players like Kernahan, Locket, Cloak, Brown etc, etc will always be there abouts, every game as they don't wander off mentally.

If Hendo can get his head right - send him forward.

Thats why I prefer the idea of Hammer, he doesn't seem to be thinking about too much and if we can teach him to smash the packs, stick the mark and kick straight then bueaty.

What rubbish.

As the General points out, you clearly have not seen him play despite me even pointing you in the right direction. I have told you which game to go back and take a look at: RD 10 2011, after an injury interupted pre-season and some time in the magoos to regain fitness (you remember fitness dont you, its pretty essential in a modern CHF), he came back and played a blinder at CHF.

Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsjrEn7xOXI&list=UUJQX-PETtZTEP3niYOgKtYA&index=13&feature=plpp_video

Shortly afterwards he was sent to the backline to fill a need caused by a series of injuries to more preferred backmen. Not because he couldnt get near it at CHF but because we needed someone with his size, fitness and discipline and mental toughness to plug a pretty big hole that had emerged. So enough of this rubbish about him not having the capacities required of a CHF, it just shows how ignorant you are about what is actually going on and how tied you are to your preconceived ill informed ideas.

If there is one thing I detest almost as much as fans bashing their own, its revisionists who make shit up to suit their agendas.

Did it occur to you for just a moment that he couldnt get near the pill early last season because he was unfit and thats why he was in the Ants, to regain fitness? Nah.....

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Hendo's attitude, the person who needs to get their head right is you.

 

[gbatman]

Henderson is no more than a makeshift forward. It is very optimistic to think he can consistently perform up forward at this stage any way. He hasn't got the build, strength or pace to get off his man to be a leading forward. He can't lead off the decent backman and he is no good one on one on the decent defenders. His hands are good but not really top line forward quality. Henderson also has no leap what so ever.

What Henderson has as a strength is an ability to run hard all day and cover a fair bit of ground as well as an ability to read the play. He has a runners build and plenty of height. He's a decent spoiler and an ok mark and an agile mover as well as a good composed mover through traffick. He is also a decent field kick and has good vision. He seems to like to have space in front of him to run so half back is a good spot for him. He's a natural defender and doesn't have the tools to be any better than an ok forward.

If Henderson ever fills out in the next few years and improves his strength then maybe but at this stage he's an average forward but a good and potentially really good CHB. It's a no brainer where he should be playing.

I've said it before, Carlton would be better off trying to make a forward out of Watson who has a big strong forward's build. If we are rotating Hampson and Casboult through the forward line in the VFL and have Watson as our key forward target learning the game up forward and Rowe, Waite and What ever ruckman rotating forward I will be happy. Not only does Watson have the natural build and strength to be a forward but having a CHF with a kick like his would be a real weapon. Half the reason Cloke kicks so many goals is because his range is up to 60m, maybe a bit more.

 

[Salaryman]

Fair dinkum, I swear some blokes are watchiing a different game to me. JK didn't fulfil his potential until a year ago. Hendo was projected as a top 5 draft pick as a 17yo key forward, from here on he will prove a very accomplished tall at either end of the ground.

 

[inyourcool]

Exactly, Hendo is tracking as good , if not better than JK at the same age AFAIC. And remember JK has 2 years on him. I was stoked when we landed him in the Fev trade. Completely wiped out the the loss of JK in the Judd swap

 

[Silvagnis]

Henderson is no more than a makeshift forward. It is very optimistic to think he can consistently perform up forward at this stage any way. He hasn't got the build, strength or pace to get off his man to be a leading forward. He can't lead off the decent backman and he is no good one on one on the decent defenders. His hands are good but not really top line forward quality. Henderson also has no leap what so ever.

What Henderson has as a strength is an ability to run hard all day and cover a fair bit of ground as well as an ability to read the play. He has a runners build and plenty of height. He's a decent spoiler and an ok mark and an agile mover as well as a good composed mover through traffick. He is also a decent field kick and has good vision. He seems to like to have space in front of him to run so half back is a good spot for him. He's a natural defender and doesn't have the tools to be any better than an ok forward.

Why does Lachie see himself as a forward?

 

[Aphrodite]

Fair dinkum, I swear some blokes are watchiing a different game to me. JK didn't fulfil his potential until a year ago. Hendo was projected as a top 5 draft pick as a 17yo key forward, from here on he will prove a very accomplished tall at either end of the ground.

This !!!!