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Mitchell Johnson

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The Falcon Strike said:
When Lee hit the scene - he knocked over blokes with raw power.

When he was figured out (i,e see off his first spell) - he didn't have enough tricks or discipline to become one of the greats.

His ODI bowling is first rate because he can maintain his pace and swing the ball. Rather than just let him tire himself out and then punish him as they did in test cricket - batsmen were forced to try and play him from ball 1.

Mitch Johnson bowls a lot of tripe and has a similar average and strike rate to Lee. Did Lee bowl tripe all the time? No - but there was a lot of tripe amongst it.

The thing with Lee (like Merv Hughes) is they often showed great maturity and discipline with bat in hand - but were often brainless with the ball.
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I was responding to the suggestion that Lee was tripe outside of one particular summer, which is clearly incorrect.

I don't disagree with your assessment of Lee generally though. I'd also add his inability to consistently bowl a decent short ball (which were inevitably either too short or too wide or both) as being one of his major shortcomings.
 
Lee had the weapons but didn't use them effectively.

At the moment Johnson doesn't have anything.

If Johnson was from NSW, on form he wouldn't be good enough to get a run in their shield side.
 
Wish Lee was younger, fit and firing now. We could actually use him the way things stand. We'd at least be a better chance of getting 20 wickets. Go well with Bollinger and Harris.
 
Lee between the start of the Australian summer in 05/06 and the start of the Indian tour of 08 (nearly 3 year period) took 130 wickets at less than 26 in 26 test matches, striking at about 48. He was excellent leading the attack. In fact after Mcgrath retired he averaged about 23 over 9 tests.

Unfortunately he got sick before/during the Indian tour, and as a result of lack of weight and ability to do pre-season work broke down shortly after, bowling poorly when unfit, and that was the end of him. It happens to bowlers unfortunately.

If he hadnt broken down then he'd probably be pretty handy right now.

As for not having made most of his ability, 12 operations over the course of his career may have something to do with that.

He was poor from 01-05 I would say, but in that time he was constantly coming back from injury. It was really once he was fit and got a long stint in the side (ie 05-08) he bowled very well.
 

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dan warna said:
Got to say I like MJ :(

He's got that botham / freddie factor about him.

He's a spud 50% of the time and a match winner 20% of the time and average the remaining 30% of the time.

Most players are either good or bad or average, he's sort of the Kouta of the test side.

You keep him around for the 2 or 3 test every year when he tears a new one for the opposition.

And frankly if we had a great bowler to take his spot we'd have selected them. We have a battery of good ordinary international class bowlers.

There are no McGraths or Warne's or Gillespies in form enough to do it regularly enough.
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This is the reason we are in with a chance...

while the vaunted top order collapsed, it was his runs (along with the indefatigable Hussey, haddin (who lost some kudo's with crap keeping again, who knew?)), and his wickets that dragged us back into the test match and back into the series....

24 hours of random shyzz. lets see if the rest of the team can lift from this performance.
 
dan warna said:
This is the reason we are in with a chance...

while the vaunted top order collapsed, it was his runs (along with the indefatigable Hussey, haddin (who lost some kudo's with crap keeping again, who knew?)), and his wickets that dragged us back into the test match and back into the series....

24 hours of random shyzz. lets see if the rest of the team can lift from this performance.
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I'd be happy for him to take out man of the series from here but he'd bowled a fair bit of trash prior to today. Like to see the X factor come round a bit more oftern than it does in the alphabet.
 
Subprime said:
I'd be happy for him to take out man of the series from here but he'd bowled a fair bit of trash prior to today. Like to see the X factor come round a bit more oftern than it does in the alphabet.
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concur, warne's X factor was about 1 in 3 tests, mitch, 1 in 7 or 8...not many others have an X factor.

Could do an X Factor count...Gilly had no X factor for the last 2 or 3 years of his career, but in his pomp, boy oh boy.
 
dan warna said:
concur, warne's X factor was about 1 in 3 tests, mitch, 1 in 7 or 8...not many others have an X factor.

Could do an X Factor count...Gilly had no X factor for the last 2 or 3 years of his career, but in his pomp, boy oh boy.
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If johnson could do this...

_X__X___X___XX__X_X___XX___X_X__XX

rather than this...

__X___________X_________X___X_____

he'd be a national hero
 
Xtreme said:
Has one decent spell on a bowlers paradise wicket and everyone thinks that he is back in town. Watch him bowl on harder wickets, and see if he can take more than one or two "vital" wickets.

Look at Siddle hero of the moment one innings, batsmans fodder the next.....
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its not just the bowling, its the 50 in the first innings as well.

the whole package got us back into the game
 

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That is a true point as well, has shown some great touch with the bat :).

Was speaking from a bowling only stand point, but yeah if he bats well (better than those who are supposed to be "good" at batting), he would have an extra reason to be left in the side, to put extra runs on the scoreboard.
 
Xtreme said:
That is a true point as well, has shown some great touch with the bat :).

Was speaking from a bowling only stand point, but yeah if he bats well (better than those who are supposed to be "good" at batting), he would have an extra reason to be left in the side, to put extra runs on the scoreboard.
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aye I too wish he turned it on 1 in 3 test matches, but atm he maybe the one keeping us competitive amidst the rubble :(
 
Xtreme said:
Has one decent spell on a bowlers paradise wicket and everyone thinks that he is back in town.
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Barring yesterday morning, the wicket hasn't actually done that much. Certainly not a bowlers paradise.

It's got some bounce, but so it should. Most batsman look all at sea on anything that isn't a highway these days.
 
Xtreme said:
Has one decent spell on a bowlers paradise wicket and everyone thinks that he is back in town. Watch him bowl on harder wickets, and see if he can take more than one or two "vital" wickets.

Look at Siddle hero of the moment one innings, batsmans fodder the next.....
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It was swing, not seam or bounce that got all his lbws. That's a very encouraging sign from a guy who had trouble keeping the seam up and had very little ability to swing the ball.

Credit where it's due.
 

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dan warna said:
concur, warne's X factor was about 1 in 3 tests, mitch, 1 in 7 or 8...not many others have an X factor.

Could do an X Factor count...Gilly had no X factor for the last 2 or 3 years of his career, but in his pomp, boy oh boy.
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Na gilly had no x factor at all in his last 2 or 3 years. Please what are you on. 2nd quickest test hundred of all time was in the last 12 months of his career. His average may not have been as high but by keepers standards he still came in and scored well and throughout his whole career he had a habit of getting Australia out of trouble when changing the momentum of games. Gilly is one player where I would say his test average(as good as it was for a number 7) was not a true reflection on how good he was. He scored many of his runs when the side needed it most and with the strike rate he scored as it was one of the few batsmen to have ever played the game to change a test match in an hour or 2 of cricket. And IMO he had x factor right up until the last test he played.
 
deeman12 said:
It was swing, not seam or bounce that got all his lbws. That's a very encouraging sign from a guy who had trouble keeping the seam up and had very little ability to swing the ball.

Credit where it's due.
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So much shyte is posted on this board I feel the need to highlight an accurate post.
 
ant22 said:
Na gilly had no x factor at all in his last 2 or 3 years. Please what are you on. 2nd quickest test hundred of all time was in the last 12 months of his career. His average may not have been as high but by keepers standards he still came in and scored well and throughout his whole career he had a habit of getting Australia out of trouble when changing the momentum of games. Gilly is one player where I would say his test average(as good as it was for a number 7) was not a true reflection on how good he was. He scored many of his runs when the side needed it most and with the strike rate he scored as it was one of the few batsmen to have ever played the game to change a test match in an hour or 2 of cricket. And IMO he had x factor right up until the last test he played.
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mmm maybe, he seemed to be slipping with the bat, in the last 2 or 3 years, often out early and the dashing centuries were fewer than when he burst on the scene. I think he was averaging close enough to 60 for hte first 3 or 4 years of his career. From mid 2005 to his retirement from test cricket in 2008 he scored only 2 of 17 centuries.

many consider him a batsmen who kept, but I think many underrate his keeping. I can't remember criticism of dropped catches that many other 'batsmen' keepers get now. He was sublime keeping to warne. Also i suspect because he was so outstanding as batsman, his less than brilliant returns with the bat started people questioning his keeping style, which I thought was brilliant regardless.

I suspect even at the twilight of his career, he'd still be close to the best batsman in the current test side. I never thought he declined in keeping, which is what australia is crying out for now...a keeper who doesn't drop catches.
 
When he swings it in he's close to the best fast bowler in the world. Shame we haven't seen it often. He doesn't seem to be able to maintain it. Needs a hurricane-like Fremantle Doctor helping out.

If he could bottle what he had in South Africa he would be an out and out champion.

When he loses his swing he is very one dimensional and relies completely on batter error.
 
makes you really appreciate what we had in mcgrath, dizzy, fleming, hughes, McDermott, Reiffel, etc etc over the years.
 

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