MLB 2019-2020 Offseason

[Genesis67]

NY getting all righteous is a classic. "They robbed us of a title"...uh what about the systematic juicing programme they had going on - Clemens, A-Rod, Giambi, Pettitte etc etc. Where was the outrage there NY? Was that not cheating? What about back in 2015 when THEY were red flagged for questionable use of the replay room themselves? LA also not without their own skeletons in the closet. The hypocrisy from NY and LA(and numerous others) is glaring, to say the least. And, again, all of the teams are cheating in some way, shape or form. If the MLB was to run a fine tooth comb through all of the replays and then take subsequent action against offenders, there would not be a league left - already allegedly at least 8 other teams + Bawston also in the gun/doing it.

Sign stealing aka cheating has been going on since baseball began but Houston is different cuZ deY used DA TekNOWlogeE!!

I mean Beltran, the supposed architect of all of this, has played at at least 8 different teams himself. Do you think when he rocks up to a new organisation he just keeps his lips sealed? Uh, nah, he's doing the same thing at his new club and he's also tipping them off about the teams he used to be at. Same as all of the other myriad players and staff that move on to new teams. It is an open secret around the league, the globe and the known universe.

"This method of cheating is ok but this method isn't"...uh, ok, sure but isn't cheating cheating, whichever way you cut it? Is that not just a tad hypocritical?

And yet, as above, sign stealing is nowhere near an exact science. It's very hit and miss. And a trashcan? With all of the technology available the best they can come up with is Bam Bam banging on a trashcan a split second before the pitcher delivers?!? Lmfao what an absolute pisser!

See, because it isn't an exact science and it's not 100% foolproof most hitters would not even want to use it. It's unreliable and it's also a big distraction having to listen out for some cave man with a lump of wood and a trashcan make a morse code signal(lmfao) - that literally everyone else with a functioning set of ears in the stadium can also hear - a split second before the pitcher delivers, when you need to have all of your attention on the pitcher's release point to actually hit a ball coming at you at 100mph and dancing all over the place, shifting your focus isn't conducive to making contact.

It's really not this big game changing, title stealing scheme it's been made out to be, or anything new for that matter. It's commonly accepted that teams are going to steal signs. Whether it's with technology or not is a moot point. Even if teams AREN'T using tech in game(they are) they are using it after the game to try and decode signs and then apply that knowledge in game.

So by all means, throw the book at Houston, but if you must, then go through and conduct a review of all of the teams and then apply the same punishment to any offending teams. People that think it's just Houston are seriously delusional. Next up, Santa Claus is actually real and Epstein really did top himself...puhleaze.

Either make ALL forms of cheating illegal or just accept that it's always happened(and it will NEVER be 100% foolproof, therefore of questionable utility) and it always will and adjust accordingly.

I'm a Yankee fan. Always have been.

But any notions of retroactively changing results or rewards is farcical, and that post is bang-on why.

 

[ossie_21]

Rob Manfred has warned pitchers off throwing high and in to Astro's batters. Any perceived 'revenge pitching' is an auto-ejection.

This is gonna get worse before it gets better.

Bullshit rule or "guideline" to try & enforce. That would mean any other act like that needs to be standard across the league, can't just protect one team (who cheated) & not the others.

 

[Genesis67]

Bullshit rule or "guideline" to try & enforce. That would mean any other act like that needs to be standard across the league, can't just protect one team (who cheated) & not the others.

It's not a hard rule, but Manfred basically said the umps will be told to toss pitchers that even think about tossing high and in to Astro's hitters.

Watch for Altuve and Bregman to basically be standing ON the plate.

 

[DelRe]

NY getting all righteous is a classic. "They robbed us of a title"...uh what about the systematic juicing programme they had going on - Clemens, A-Rod, Giambi, Pettitte etc etc. Where was the outrage there NY? Was that not cheating? What about back in 2015 when THEY were red flagged for questionable use of the replay room themselves? LA also not without their own skeletons in the closet. The hypocrisy from NY and LA(and numerous others) is glaring, to say the least. And, again, all of the teams are cheating in some way, shape or form. If the MLB was to run a fine tooth comb through all of the replays and then take subsequent action against offenders, there would not be a league left - already allegedly at least 8 other teams + Bawston also in the gun/doing it.

Sign stealing aka cheating has been going on since baseball began but Houston is different cuZ deY used DA TekNOWlogeE!!

I mean Beltran, the supposed architect of all of this, has played at at least 8 different teams himself. Do you think when he rocks up to a new organisation he just keeps his lips sealed? Uh, nah, he's doing the same thing at his new club and he's also tipping them off about the teams he used to be at. Same as all of the other myriad players and staff that move on to new teams. It is an open secret around the league, the globe and the known universe.

"This method of cheating is ok but this method isn't"...uh, ok, sure but isn't cheating cheating, whichever way you cut it? Is that not just a tad hypocritical?

And yet, as above, sign stealing is nowhere near an exact science. It's very hit and miss. And a trashcan? With all of the technology available the best they can come up with is Bam Bam banging on a trashcan a split second before the pitcher delivers?!? Lmfao what an absolute pisser!

See, because it isn't an exact science and it's not 100% foolproof most hitters would not even want to use it. It's unreliable and it's also a big distraction having to listen out for some cave man with a lump of wood and a trashcan make a morse code signal(lmfao) - that literally everyone else with a functioning set of ears in the stadium can also hear - a split second before the pitcher delivers, when you need to have all of your attention on the pitcher's release point to actually hit a ball coming at you at 100mph and dancing all over the place, shifting your focus isn't conducive to making contact.

It's really not this big game changing, title stealing scheme it's been made out to be, or anything new for that matter. It's commonly accepted that teams are going to steal signs. Whether it's with technology or not is a moot point. Even if teams AREN'T using tech in game(they are) they are using it after the game to try and decode signs and then apply that knowledge in game.

So by all means, throw the book at Houston, but if you must, then go through and conduct a review of all of the teams and then apply the same punishment to any offending teams. People that think it's just Houston are seriously delusional. Next up, Santa Claus is actually real and Epstein really did top himself...puhleaze.

Either make ALL forms of cheating illegal or just accept that it's always happened(and it will NEVER be 100% foolproof, therefore of questionable utility) and it always will and adjust accordingly.

Surprised this wasn’t written by an Essendon supporter. Everyone cheats so why should we get punished; it didn’t really help; if you can effectively ban cheating they should just let everyone cheat. Terrible series of arguments.

Houston did cheat. It’s not even questionable as players have admitted guilt. They should be punished for that offence. What other teams may or may not have done at other times is irrelevant.

To say it has no impact is also not really a factor given the offence is the act itself not the outcome. It’s a silly argument anyway given the response of opposition players, how extensively it was used, and how much effort was made to hide it all suggest it clearly provided some advantage. In a game in which a single hit can change the whole outcome it’s really not supportable to suggest it didn’t have an effect.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

It’s not even questionable as players have admitted guilt

But they only admitted guilt because of a deal with the MLB that they would not be punished.

MLB should launch a league wide investigation where players have to testify under oath. Won’t happen of course and other players would s**t themselves if it did.

 

[FRUMPY]

Anyway, spring training camps have started. Any players you are looking forward to putting their hand up for a roster spot either out of spring or later in the year?

For the Braves, even though they wont make the roster to start the year, 2 outfielder prospects in Pache and Waters will probably go to AAA and look to force their way into the side this year or start of next year. Hoping for big years from both of them in the minors.

Also Anderson and Wright as starting pitches, both pretty young and need a bit more seasoning. Just hoping they progress as expected and could be a shot later on in the year or start of next year.

 

[Genesis67]

Anyway, spring training camps have started. Any players you are looking forward to putting their hand up for a roster spot either out of spring or later in the year?

For the Braves, even though they wont make the roster to start the year, 2 outfielder prospects in Pache and Waters will probably go to AAA and look to force their way into the side this year or start of next year. Hoping for big years from both of them in the minors.

Also Anderson and Wright as starting pitches, both pretty young and need a bit more seasoning. Just hoping they progress as expected and could be a shot later on in the year or start of next year.

Yankees fans have been waiting to see if Deivi Garcia can finally make that leap for a couple of years now. 20 this year, talked of as being a true ace. If he can step up, that gives us a rotation of Cole-Severino-Tanaka-Paxton-Garcia/German, with Montgomery on the side. The 'pen has been weakened by Betances leaving, so we'll also be looking to see if any relievers impress.

And on a personal note, because I love the guy, hoping Gio Urshela can prove to be more than a 1 year wonder.

 

[FRUMPY]

Yankees fans have been waiting to see if Deivi Garcia can finally make that leap for a couple of years now. 20 this year, talked of as being a true ace. If he can step up, that gives us a rotation of Cole-Severino-Tanaka-Paxton-Garcia/German, with Montgomery on the side. The 'pen has been weakened by Betances leaving, so we'll also be looking to see if any relievers impress.

And on a personal note, because I love the guy, hoping Gio Urshela can prove to be more than a 1 year wonder.

20 this year and you've been waiting for a couple of years now?????? Must be good - i was rapt with Soroka this year and he was 21.

 

[Genesis67]

20 this year and you've been waiting for a couple of years now?????? Must be good - i was rapt with Soroka this year and he was 21.

4 pitch starter with a fastball north of 95mph. Progressed to Triple-A in a real hurry, but had a bad year last season (ERA 5.40). 21 this year, not 20 (my bad), but already very polished.

With Paxton out until at least May due to a back injury (you'd think Happ slots in there, barring a late roster change), and the status of German uncertain, there'll be opportunities early in the year. Will be hoping he can step up.

 

[FRUMPY]

4 pitch starter with a fastball north of 95mph. Progressed to Triple-A in a real hurry, but had a bad year last season (ERA 5.40). 21 this year, not 20 (my bad), but already very polished.

With Paxton out until at least May due to a back injury (you'd think Happ slots in there, barring a late roster change), and the status of German uncertain, there'll be opportunities early in the year. Will be hoping he can step up.

Always injuries at some point to one or two starters.

 

[twotooto]

Surprised this wasn’t written by an Essendon supporter. Everyone cheats so why should we get punished; it didn’t really help; if you can effectively ban cheating they should just let everyone cheat. Terrible series of arguments.

Houston did cheat. It’s not even questionable as players have admitted guilt. They should be punished for that offence. What other teams may or may not have done at other times is irrelevant.

To say it has no impact is also not really a factor given the offence is the act itself not the outcome. It’s a silly argument anyway given the response of opposition players, how extensively it was used, and how much effort was made to hide it all suggest it clearly provided some advantage. In a game in which a single hit can change the whole outcome it’s really not supportable to suggest it didn’t have an effect.

I did not say that Houston didn't cheat nor did I say that they shouldn't be punished. Nice job swooping in on that low hanging fruit though.

Did you honestly think - if this has been going on since 2017 - that no one else in the league knew about it, or that no one at MLB HQ knew about it? You seriously think that this 'elaborate, extensive scheme where huge effort was put in to hide it' consisting of a trashcan and a lump of wood, with some ring in banging on it so loudly that every one in the entire stadium could hear, went unnoticed for three entire seasons(and not forgetting to take in to account the aforementioned huge amount of players and staff moving back and forth between teams over 3 seasons). Why wasn't it brought to light way earlier? What, not one of the countless people on/or involved with the Houston roster ever said anything when they moved on to another organisation? Every single person just kept it hush?

Nah, I'm not defending Houston at all. I'm merely pointing out the glaring hypocrisy of MLB HQ and of the opposing teams and players taking umbrage and getting all righteous - they knew damn well this was going on, and they've only decided to get all uppity about it now because some journo broke a story(I mean shock horror, it was a massive surprise when it broke -somebody give that guy a Pulitzer) and then some nuffie on YouTube, Jompa the Trashcan Whisperer or whatever his name is, decided to run with it and it blew up creating an issue that was not going to go way.

Once the genie was out of the bottle, YouTube enthusiasts around the globe were ecstatic - bulk clicks were gained, much subs were gotten, many money was made. It created such a scene that the MLB had to do something about it. But ironically, they are the real architects of this entire farce. They essentially codify cheating by tacitly allowing sign stealing, as long Az dER is no TeckleKNolajeee involved!! I mean, as said before cheating is cheating. Did you really think teams weren't going to push that sign stealing a tad further and apply technology for rules created in the 1800s? But nah, this cheating is ok, but this cheating isn't. Lmao. Really? Hypocrisy.

Again, outlaw ALL forms of cheating. Review ALL of the teams and then apply the same levels of scrutiny and subsequent punishments. If the MLB was serious they would only allow accredited, licensed broadcasters to have cameras in the stadiums. They wouldn't have close ups of the catcher until after the pitcher has delivered. They would completely overhaul the review system and the associated access to camera footage for all teams.

But here is the thing, there will STILL be cheating. This is why I take a somewhat fatalistic, pragmatic approach and why I find the whole engineered by MLB and the respective teams and players dog and pony show to be extremely hypocritical. How can any one not be cynical about anything the MLB comes up with? AFL, anyone? Manufactured outcomes? Sound familiar?

And again, sign stealing is not a foolproof science. Many hitters would prefer NOT to know what was coming. I know that may seem counter-intuitive but believe me, when it isn't 100% foolproof and given the miniscule amounts of time between pitcher releasing the ball and ball crossing plate, it is true - many of the great hitters have addressed this very point over the years. Btw, since this allegedly was only done at home and the cheating was so 'effective' you'd expect the batting averages at home would be way higher, right? Google Houston batting averages, both home and away, since 2017 and compare the two. Also, from memory, did Houston not lose all four games at home in last year's World Series?

 

[FRUMPY]

I did not say that Houston didn't cheat nor did I say that they shouldn't be punished. Nice job swooping in on that low hanging fruit though.

Did you honestly think - if this has been going on since 2017 - that no one else in the league knew about it, or that no one at MLB HQ knew about it? You seriously think that this 'elaborate, extensive scheme where huge effort was put in to hide it' consisting of a trashcan and a lump of wood, with some ring in banging on it so loudly that every one in the entire stadium could hear, went unnoticed for three entire seasons(and not forgetting to take in to account the aforementioned huge amount of players and staff moving back and forth between teams over 3 seasons). Why wasn't it brought to light way earlier? What, not one of the countless people on/or involved with the Houston roster ever said anything when they moved on to another organisation? Every single person just kept it hush?

Nah, I'm not defending Houston at all. I'm merely pointing out the glaring hypocrisy of MLB HQ and of the opposing teams and players taking umbrage and getting all righteous - they knew damn well this was going on, and they've only decided to get all uppity about it now because some journo broke a story(I mean shock horror, it was a massive surprise when it broke -somebody give that guy a Pulitzer) and then some nuffie on YouTube, Jompa the Trashcan Whisperer or whatever his name is, decided to run with it and it blew up creating an issue that was not going to go way.

Once the genie was out of the bottle, YouTube enthusiasts around the globe were ecstatic - bulk clicks were gained, much subs were gotten, many money was made. It created such a scene that the MLB had to do something about it. But ironically, they are the real architects of this entire farce. They essentially codify cheating by tacitly allowing sign stealing, as long Az dER is no TeckleKNolajeee involved!! I mean, as said before cheating is cheating. Did you really think teams weren't going to push that sign stealing a tad further and apply technology for rules created in the 1800s? But nah, this cheating is ok, but this cheating isn't. Lmao. Really? Hypocrisy.

Again, outlaw ALL forms of cheating. Review ALL of the teams and then apply the same levels of scrutiny and subsequent punishments. If the MLB was serious they would only allow accredited, licensed broadcasters to have cameras in the stadiums. They wouldn't have close ups of the catcher until after the pitcher has delivered. They would completely overhaul the review system and the associated access to camera footage for all teams.

But here is the thing, there will STILL be cheating. This is why I take a somewhat fatalistic, pragmatic approach and why I find the whole engineered by MLB and the respective teams and players dog and pony show to be extremely hypocritical. How can any one not be cynical about anything the MLB comes up with? AFL, anyone? Manufactured outcomes? Sound familiar?

And again, sign stealing is not a foolproof science. Many hitters would prefer NOT to know what was coming. I know that may seem counter-intuitive but believe me, when it isn't 100% foolproof and given the miniscule amounts of time between pitcher releasing the ball and ball crossing plate, it is true - many of the great hitters have addressed this very point over the years. Btw, since this allegedly was only done at home and the cheating was so 'effective' you'd expect the batting averages at home would be way higher, right? Google Houston batting averages, both home and away, since 2017 and compare the two. Also, from memory, did Houston not lose all four games at home in last year's World Series?

There is no proof they did it in 2019 - and even if they did, because the cheating didnt help they shouldnt be punished?

Systematic cheating should be punished, doesnt matter who does it. But not many sporting organisations do punish their teams, to protect their brand - try and sweep it under the carpet. But this isnt going away soon do to the way the MBL handled it.

As for the players - it seems the cheating isnt that wide spread due to the players who are criticizing the Astros and the fact players have gotten away with it without being punished. So well credentialed players have spoken the loudest.

Ive got no doubt other teams have and are cheating, but this might put a stop to it for a while (cheating in sport is going to happen, too much money at stake and people love to win too much - even in small australian sports, essendon (drugs), Carlton (paper bag payments), storm (deliberate hiding of payments)

 

[twotooto]

There is no proof they did it in 2019 - and even if they did, because the cheating didnt help they shouldnt be punished?

Systematic cheating should be punished, doesnt matter who does it. But not many sporting organisations do punish their teams, to protect their brand - try and sweep it under the carpet. But this isnt going away soon do to the way the MBL handled it.

As for the players - it seems the cheating isnt that wide spread due to the players who are criticizing the Astros and the fact players have gotten away with it without being punished. So well credentialed players have spoken the loudest.

Ive got no doubt other teams have and are cheating, but this might put a stop to it for a while (cheating in sport is going to happen, too much money at stake and people love to win too much - even in small australian sports, essendon (drugs), Carlton (paper bag payments), storm (deliberate hiding of payments)

Again, I have not said that they shouldn't be punished - literally addressed it in the very post that you have quoted.

There are plenty of accusations flying around - admittedly anecdotal - that they cheated in 2019. I mean if they've been doing it since 2017, why would they stop? Adds up.

 

[DelRe]

I did not say that Houston didn't cheat nor did I say that they shouldn't be punished. Nice job swooping in on that low hanging fruit though.

Did you honestly think - if this has been going on since 2017 - that no one else in the league knew about it, or that no one at MLB HQ knew about it? You seriously think that this 'elaborate, extensive scheme where huge effort was put in to hide it' consisting of a trashcan and a lump of wood, with some ring in banging on it so loudly that every one in the entire stadium could hear, went unnoticed for three entire seasons(and not forgetting to take in to account the aforementioned huge amount of players and staff moving back and forth between teams over 3 seasons). Why wasn't it brought to light way earlier? What, not one of the countless people on/or involved with the Houston roster ever said anything when they moved on to another organisation? Every single person just kept it hush?

Nah, I'm not defending Houston at all. I'm merely pointing out the glaring hypocrisy of MLB HQ and of the opposing teams and players taking umbrage and getting all righteous - they knew damn well this was going on, and they've only decided to get all uppity about it now because some journo broke a story(I mean shock horror, it was a massive surprise when it broke -somebody give that guy a Pulitzer) and then some nuffie on YouTube, Jompa the Trashcan Whisperer or whatever his name is, decided to run with it and it blew up creating an issue that was not going to go way.

Once the genie was out of the bottle, YouTube enthusiasts around the globe were ecstatic - bulk clicks were gained, much subs were gotten, many money was made. It created such a scene that the MLB had to do something about it. But ironically, they are the real architects of this entire farce. They essentially codify cheating by tacitly allowing sign stealing, as long Az dER is no TeckleKNolajeee involved!! I mean, as said before cheating is cheating. Did you really think teams weren't going to push that sign stealing a tad further and apply technology for rules created in the 1800s? But nah, this cheating is ok, but this cheating isn't. Lmao. Really? Hypocrisy.

Again, outlaw ALL forms of cheating. Review ALL of the teams and then apply the same levels of scrutiny and subsequent punishments. If the MLB was serious they would only allow accredited, licensed broadcasters to have cameras in the stadiums. They wouldn't have close ups of the catcher until after the pitcher has delivered. They would completely overhaul the review system and the associated access to camera footage for all teams.

But here is the thing, there will STILL be cheating. This is why I take a somewhat fatalistic, pragmatic approach and why I find the whole engineered by MLB and the respective teams and players dog and pony show to be extremely hypocritical. How can any one not be cynical about anything the MLB comes up with? AFL, anyone? Manufactured outcomes? Sound familiar?

And again, sign stealing is not a foolproof science. Many hitters would prefer NOT to know what was coming. I know that may seem counter-intuitive but believe me, when it isn't 100% foolproof and given the miniscule amounts of time between pitcher releasing the ball and ball crossing plate, it is true - many of the great hitters have addressed this very point over the years. Btw, since this allegedly was only done at home and the cheating was so 'effective' you'd expect the batting averages at home would be way higher, right? Google Houston batting averages, both home and away, since 2017 and compare the two. Also, from memory, did Houston not lose all four games at home in last year's World Series?

Really hard to work out what your point is here. You’re annoyed because you think lots of other unspecified cheating goes on that somehow makes it hypocritical to punish Houston for their cheating? Or you’re annoyed because in your view it wasn’t actually that effective, in which case it presumably wouldn’t have continued, which logically suggests it was? You’re claiming reviewing team footage to study for pitching ‘tells’ is the same thing? It’s really simple. Houston cheated, got caught and now get punished. The rest of your post is mostly garbled nonsense about your disdain for the MLB.

 

[twotooto]

Good lord. What a complete waste of time this has been.

 

[JezzasOnTheAsphalt]

Rob Manfred has warned pitchers off throwing high and in to Astro's batters. Any perceived 'revenge pitching' is an auto-ejection.

This is gonna get worse before it gets better.

Do your job and punish them properly Rob so that opposition pitchers have less reason to think about doing that.

Giving the Astros this kind of insurance for the new season because they broke rules isn’t going to lower angst amongst opposition teams. Potentially won’t achieve anything near what it is meant to achieve.
Different story if it’s less tolerance for throwing at any batter across any team for the new season.

 

[largebus]

I've always maintained Manfred is a worse commissioner than Goodell but gets a fraction of the s**t cos of how less relevant MLB has become the national media over his tenure

 

[Genesis67]

Well, I spoke too soon....

Severino down for Tommy John surgery.

Yankees jarred by horrific Luis Severino injury update

The New York Yankees learned on Tuesday that two-time All-Star pitcher Luis Severino is facing season-ending Tommy John surgery.

www.nj.com

 

[RPCB]

The Yankees have the most rotten luck with injuries. Last year they seemed to have a position player go down per week and at one stage seemed like their entire team was injured and yet, they still won 103 games and made the ALCS.

This year Severino is already out for the year and Paxson for the next 3-4 months. Not an injury but Domingo German is suspended until June 5th. That is 3/5th of their rotation not starting the first 2 months and only one of the other two will return this year, around July/August.

 

[FRUMPY]

The Yankees have the most rotten luck with injuries. Last year they seemed to have a position player go down per week and at one stage seemed like their entire team was injured and yet, they still won 103 games and made the ALCS.

This year Severino is already out for the year and Paxson for the next 3-4 months. Not an injury but Domingo German is suspended until June 5th. That is 3/5th of their rotation not starting the first 2 months and only one of the other two will return this year, around July/August.

Not sure about the most rotten luck - you just go out and buy more players. And putting a domestic violence offender on the list is a bit ridiculous.

 

[RPCB]

Not sure about the most rotten luck - you just go out and buy more players. And putting a domestic violence offender on the list is a bit ridiculous.

Good points.

 

[FRUMPY]

Good points.

Still sucks to lose a top starter to tommy john.

 

[Genesis67]

Still sucks to lose a top starter to tommy john.

I wonder if this is why the club didn't trade Happ. They might've known this was likely a while ago.

 

[Genesis67]

Get used to it Alex.

 

[FRUMPY]

Get used to it Alex.

Offspeed pitch - you dont ever see anyone get ejected for hitting someone with an offspeed pitch. I love it how people figure out ways around 'rules' (eg anyone who throws at an astros player will be ejected)