MM's Coaching Record

[RRRooocccaaa]

And in case you haven't noticed, asking questions is about the most useless action that can be taken in relation to MM. Haven't you ever seen a press conference?

I guessed as much - you haven't bothered to go straight to the source. If I relied on the Newspapers, Radio and TV to form my opinions I'd see the world through a very narrow strip of reality.

BTW, did you say 'we' paid him millions? Are you a member or not? If you are, then you'll surely get the chance to get a little closer to find how people at the club feel about MM and if your character assassination is accurate or not.

 

[Nardz]

I think it a worthwhile exercise when a question or post generates debate. What irks me no end is when the post is lowered to a level where the ferals get their say and it becomes nothing more than a slanging match and personal attack.

I think everyone is just surprised to see the father of a player publicly post negative stats in regards to the coach. whether or not you've actually criticised him you've highlighted some negative points, and it raises questions in our minds as to whether your son and/or his team mates share similar view points.

in response to the actual topic, MM has done alot of good but at the same time he hasn't delivered where it counts. If we had won the flag in 02 or 03 then your whole post would be invalid, but the fact is we didnt. The fact that we lost so comprehensively in 2003 highlighted some glaring coaching errors in that game that have been typical of the coaching pattern of MM's career at collingwood.

I've said this before and i'll say it again.

a) he has no plan b
b) he is often too slow to make obvious moves. the Adelaide game highlighted this when adelaide had the spare man in defence that was killing us, Triple M were crying out for a move to be made to make that man accountable and it took a good 15-20 minutes (?) for this to happen. When it finally did happen the game suddenly turned.
c) he gets outcoached far too often IMO.
d) he plays favourites, often gives players games on reputation rather then whether they warrant selection, and never really makes statements at the selection table.
e) We're only good when we're hunters rather than being the hunted. this will be a worry in future years when we're hopefully chasing a premiership.

That said, i still believe he is a good coach, and his statistics are flawed by 2 injury ravaged years, and inheriting a bottomed out side at the start. We've only missed the finals twice since we started making it and that i think is a good effort. My concern is that he's had time to build a list good enough to win a premiership and he hasnt - although it seems like we're closer to having that list now than when he took over.

 

[adzarani]

I guessed as much - you haven't bothered to go straight to the source. If I relied on the Newspapers, Radio and TV to form my opinions I'd see the world through a very narrow strip of reality.

BTW, did you say 'we' paid him millions? Are you a member or not? If you are, then you'll surely get the chance to get a little closer to find how people at the club feel about MM and if your character assassination is accurate or not.

Well what percentage of the football public goes "straight to the source".......i'm going to walk into the lexus centre tommorow morning for a little pow wow with Mick am I?

And what good would that do anyway..........i'd either get thrown out on my arse, or get a whole bunch of cryptic nonsense, or if I was lucky, get a bunch of excuses and/or promises

The facts are the facts, his ability to influence means that opinions of him are not the issue here............his record is!

but we get more excuses.........

Come up with facts & figures not intangible dribble

Pressure on Malthouse = Pies Flag '08

Make no mistake!

 

[Snag Breac]

Pressure on Malthouse = Pies Flag '08

Make no mistake!

A telling comment adzarani. Do you really have so much faith in MM that you think the application of a dose of tough love in that direction will do it? Glad to see that you believe we're within striking distance.

 

[adzarani]

A telling comment adzarani. Do you really have so much faith in MM that you think the application of a dose of tough love in that direction will do it?

Yes I do......

If tough love = public pressure

 

[shawthing09]

Yes I do......

If tough love = public pressure

Do you really think we are a flag contender with our foward line structure and even our backline structure and hell midfield too as it is?

We are relying on a 5th gamer who has played as a defender for much of his career and is much more suited to a third tall then FF anyway.

A first season full back and a very undersized CHB (Harry O really has been playing that role for us much of the year)

I think if we get to the turn of the decade and we are still in the same limbo that we are now then it is deffinatly no question asked time for a change.

The fact is there has been a slow clean out of a list that had a huge amount of holes and until the players to fill those holes have a chance to be mature you are expecting too much. When players like Reid, Dawes, Wood, Brown, McCarthy Shazza etc have had 4 years of developing (which would have also given far more then enough time for players like Stanley, Cook to be found out to be up to it or not)

The fact is till that happens we still have a very similar list to that of which we had in 02/03. Carlton have something like 3 players from that year still listed we have something like 16 just for a comparison. Without bottoming out list clean ups take time.

 

[Kirby]

Why didn't he man up Wells or block the hole in front of Fev........because he is MM and he doesn't have to, if we loose it's the CFC's problem not his, it doesn't affect his standing in the game, no matter how stupid the move seems to be........he is free to use the CFC has his personal hobby horse while we pay him millions and millions year after year.

You dont seriously believe this do you?

To criticize his performance is one thing, but to suggest this is all some Machiavellian plot by MM is ridiculous.

 

[RRRooocccaaa]

Well what percentage of the football public goes "straight to the source".......i'm going to walk into the lexus centre tommorow morning for a little pow wow with Mick am I?

And what good would that do anyway..........i'd either get thrown out on my arse, or get a whole bunch of cryptic nonsense, or if I was lucky, get a bunch of excuses and/or promises

Or the staff would wonder why you left lots of awkward pauses in between your sentences.

Honestly - I GET you want him sacked. You don't need to repeat it constantly.

 

[kevind]

No......it's about his record and performance, relative to his salary and standing in the game.

And in case you haven't noticed, asking questions is about the most useless action that can be taken in relation to MM. Haven't you ever seen a press conference?

Anyway, just keep on defending MM the INDIVIDUAL at the expense of the CLUB.

No one has brought anything but excuses for MM and future promises to the table.

MM is average at coaching but brilliant at influencing public opinion. Look at his record compared to many of the posts on here.

Do people say "Gee....that is an average record, maybe we need to look more closely at what he is doing"

No

People come on, like your good self with posts like "Ah, facts and figures, they're not really what MM & Collingwood is about" or the old "MM hasn't got much to work with" routine. It's just a blind, long winded waffle essentially about how winning games isn't important (excuse), and how it's because of injuries, kids and poor lists (excuse) and that we wil win a flag in the next two years (promise).

Promises & Excuses thats all people have got to defend MM with!

His record is ordinary, he is an ordinary coach who knows how to survive in this sport........simple as that.

Defend him all you want, but remember you are supporting an individual ahead of the club.

I personally can't stand MM's stlye of play of 'attack around the boundary line' but his record is hard to argue against. It might only be 50%, but he ,like all coaches, is dependent on the 'cattle' at his disposal. If you can convince me that he has been responsible for the recruiting disasters over the last 15 years, I will agree with you.

Your vitriol really needs to be directed at Gerard Sholly, Noel Judkins and to a lesser extent Hine. These are the people responsible for the side we have today. And that side is no premiership side. A long, long way from it in actual fact. One of the worst midfields in the AFL, one of the worst disposal teams in the AFL. No ruckman worth his salt, and lacking in a key backman and a key forward as well. If you think this current group of players will win us a flag anytime soon, you are seriously deluded.

MM can do nothing about this. This is the fault of the above mentioned gentlemen. What MM can do is to get them to play as a team, which he has done very effectively. Pressure the opposition when they have the ball, which he also has done very effectively. And use tactical strategies to get the most out of the team at his disposal. Once again he has done this.

The coach is an easy target as he is visible to supporters, the recruiting staff however are not. As I have mentioned many times before, a cardinal sin of our recruiting is the consistent recruiting of players who cannot kick well, hence we are, season after season, one of the better performers in the notorius 'clanger' count. Can anyone name me a great player who was a poor kick? Richo perhaps, but he is the only one I can think of in the last 40 years. We have a club full of poor kicks!!!!!

In 2002 and 2003 , it was great to play in the GF, but the down side was that we had a very ordinary team that was not going to win it and subsequently missed out on high draft picks that may have helped our cause in the ensuing years.

So my friend, although I don't like the around the boundary stuff,his favouritism with players like Maxwell and the fact that he has been outcoached a few times this year(but don't all losing teams look that way?), I still think he has done well with some very ordinary teams.

I think you fail to see the real culprits in our continual flirtation with mediocrity, the recruiting staff

 

[pipeline]

I think you fail to see the real culprits in our continual flirtation with mediocrity, the recruiting staff

But MM has the last word on recruiting decisions - as with everything else.

 

[Kirby]

But MM has the last word on recruiting decisions - as with everything else.

Yes, but I understand that in the last few years, since Hine took over the recruiting, MM has taken a step back and doesn't interfere much at all.

Having said that, he has to take responsibilty (at least partly) for our piss poor recruiting up until 3 years ago. That would be my major criticism of him and is the reason why we are in the second rebuild and have a dearth of good 23-28 year old players.

 

[adzarani]

Do you really think we are a flag contender with our foward line structure and even our backline structure and hell midfield too as it is?

We are relying on a 5th gamer who has played as a defender for much of his career and is much more suited to a third tall then FF anyway.

A first season full back and a very undersized CHB (Harry O really has been playing that role for us much of the year)

I think if we get to the turn of the decade and we are still in the same limbo that we are now then it is deffinatly no question asked time for a change.

The fact is there has been a slow clean out of a list that had a huge amount of holes and until the players to fill those holes have a chance to be mature you are expecting too much. When players like Reid, Dawes, Wood, Brown, McCarthy Shazza etc have had 4 years of developing (which would have also given far more then enough time for players like Stanley, Cook to be found out to be up to it or not)

The fact is till that happens we still have a very similar list to that of which we had in 02/03. Carlton have something like 3 players from that year still listed we have something like 16 just for a comparison. Without bottoming out list clean ups take time.

Is our team and MM capable of winning 3 or 4 games in a row in september against Geelong and the rest of the Top 8 sides.........YES

Is our team expected to...........NO

There is only one way to build a premiership list........win a premiership.

We can make all the excuses in the world why this isn't our year, but I don't see the benifit. If someone other than Geelong or the Hawks pinch it, might as well be us.

We are right in this season......... we can win it.

We just need the public to put some pressure on.

 

[adzarani]

Or the staff would wonder why you left lots of awkward pauses in between your sentences.

Honestly - I GET you want him sacked. You don't need to repeat it constantly.

HONESTLY.........you're a simple little thing aren't you.

I don't want him sacked. (go back and READ)

I want him under pressure to deliver a flag this year.

I want him not to be able to throw away matches on a whim.

I want accountability.

It's clear you're just skimming my posts desperately trying to defend MM

Enjoy.

 

[kevind]

Is our team and MM capable of winning 3 or 4 games in a row in september against Geelong and the rest of the Top 8 sides.........YES

Is our team expected to...........NO

There is only one way to build a premiership list........win a premiership.

We can make all the excuses in the world why this isn't our year, but I don't see the benifit. If someone other than Geelong or the Hawks pinch it, might as well be us.

We are right in this season......... we can win it.

We just need the public to put some pressure on.

Your critisisms of MM are a lot to do with your own delusions. The current Collingwood side will not win the premiership this year, even if Jesus Christ takes over as coach. We are simply not good enough. You cannot win premierships when the team has so many holes, particularly in the area of disposal. NO man who has ever coached could get us over the line this year,

With Burns, Rocca, Wakelin, Holland and Prestigiacomo ready to retire, Rusling and Fraser as good as finished due to injury, we need to rebuild around the good young players we have in Cloke, Anthony, Pendleberry, Thomas,Didak, Medhurst by drafting two very good midfielders and a key backman. A decent ruckman should also be a priority.

Unless these types of players materialise soon, we are a long, long way from a premiership. So don't let you unrealistic expectations cloud your view, otherwise you will be always disappointed and bitter about MM.

 

[Pie eyed]

Your critisisms of MM are a lot to do with your own delusions. The current Collingwood side will not win the premiership this year, even if Jesus Christ takes over as coach. We are simply not good enough. You cannot win premierships when the team has so many holes, particularly in the area of disposal. NO man who has ever coached could get us over the line this year,

With Burns, Rocca, Wakelin, Holland and Prestigiacomo ready to retire, Rusling and Fraser as good as finished due to injury, we need to rebuild around the good young players we have in Cloke, Anthony, Pendleberry, Thomas,Didak, Medhurst by drafting two very good midfielders and a key backman. A decent ruckman should also be a priority.

Unless these types of players materialise soon, we are a long, long way from a premiership. So don't let you unrealistic expectations cloud your view, otherwise you will be always disappointed and bitter about MM.

I would agree with most of the sentiments in this post except for:

" NO man who has ever coached could get us over the line this year " as a flag is definitely not out if we can regroup and nail down a top 4 spot. We may not be a side who on paper should be able to take out the flag but as anyone who has followed VFL/AFL for a fair while can tell you no side is unbeatable and any side can win on the day.
The Western Bulldogs and Hawthorn are looking less impregnable with each game and Geelong are eminently beatable. It would only take a few key injuries or some poor form and they are all back to the pack, that is just the way of modern footy or any footy for that matter.

We lost to North Melbourne, fair enough, but the massive dummy spit across the board regarding our flag hopes is a sign of frustration more resignation.


I am not going to concede the flag until the final whistle has sounded on season 2008.

For god's sake we are 5th on the ladder not 12th....

 

[tess]

The point of the whole exercise was to offer an accurate portrayal in statistical form as to where MM has been and where he is now. I didn't offer an opinion nor did I ask for a consensus. Because of the feeling, passion, hatred, loathing or love of the club or the man, it has turned into a bitchfest and a "please explain" from me.

This is the very reason I stayed away from this topic. Unfortunately most posters don't realise there are "spies among us" who are encouraged by the CFC admin to disrupt this kind of serious discussion with personal attacks and accusations of vendetta's.

 

[Kirby]

This is the very reason I stayed away from this topic. Unfortunately most posters don't realise there are "spies among us" who are encouraged by the CFC admin to disrupt this kind of serious discussion with personal attacks and accusations of vendetta's.

oh yes, it's a conspiracy.

 

[Smoky]

This is the very reason I stayed away from this topic. Unfortunately most posters don't realise there are "spies among us" who are encouraged by the CFC admin to disrupt this kind of serious discussion with personal attacks and accusations of vendetta's.

Tess, I actually support your point of view alot more than some others on this site. I really respect your love of the club and very highly respect your views on what our heratige and history should mean to us.

But your views on the admin at Collingwood are just utterly ridiculous. Theres no conspiracy to see here mate.

 

[tess]

Tess, I actually support your point of view alot more than some others on this site. I really respect your love of the club and very highly respect your views on what our heratige and history should mean to us.

But your views on the admin at Collingwood are just utterly ridiculous. Theres no conspiracy to see here mate.

I'm not talking conspiracy, that is your language and I would question why you would use such emotional words as Conspiracy.

I just ask that if people keep an eye out they will notice the "usual suspects" (ha ha) will start with the pro MM/Ed posts in a thread that may question whats going on at team/club level.

Think about it, my access to a CFC BB was withdrawn because I dare to suggest this very thing.

 

[Nardz]

I'm now officially off the MM bandwagon. The sooner he is moved on the better we are in the long run.

 

[Stan.]

Kick sick mick to the curb.

 

[kevind]

I'm now officially off the MM bandwagon. The sooner he is moved on the better we are in the long run.

Fair enough, but we still have a crap list of players and that is the first thing that needs fixing.

 

[spartan-magpie]

i dont think our list is crap at all.. sure we have gaps... but atm i think our lack of respect for other sides is whats killing us.. as for mick.. as of today.. i think we should start fast tracking a succession plan which involves getting nathan buckley ready to coach for next season... regardless of of how the year pans out a change of coach is required.... it seems to me as if the players arent responding to well to him latley...

 

[kevind]

i dont think our list is crap at all.. sure we have gaps... but atm i think our lack of respect for other sides is whats killing us.. as for mick.. as of today.. i think we should start fast tracking a succession plan which involves getting nathan buckley ready to coach for next season... regardless of of how the year pans out a change of coach is required.... it seems to me as if the players arent responding to well to him latley...

If you don't think we have a crap list, let me ask you a few questions. Which teams have worse midfields than ours? Which teams have worse disposal than ours? Which teams have worse ruckmen than we do? The answer in my book, is not many. Therefore = crap list.

I'm not MMs greatest fan, but I don't believe the real problem lies with him. It is the list that the club has assembled over the last 15 years of drafting ineptitude. It's great that you can be so optimistic, but it will test your patience over the next few years as 2009 and 2010 and 2011 roll by and there is no premiership on the horizon.

The hot air of deluded supporters unfortunately don't win you premierships. Recognising the true problems and fixing them does.

 

[Pie eyed]

If you don't think we have a crap list, let me ask you a few questions. Which teams have worse midfields than ours? Which teams have worse disposal than ours? Which teams have worse ruckmen than we do? The answer in my book, is not many. Therefore = crap list.

I'm not MMs greatest fan, but I don't believe the real problem lies with him. It is the list that the club has assembled over the last 15 years of drafting ineptitude. It's great that you can be so optimistic, but it will test your patience over the next few years as 2009 and 2010 and 2011 roll by and there is no premiership on the horizon.

The hot air of deluded supporters unfortunately don't win you premierships. Recognising the true problems and fixing them does.

Answer to all...
All the teams below us on the ladder at the moment.

It is really pointless bemoaning things you cannot change.
I fully understand how god damned frustrating it is being a Collingwood supporter but to be honest I cannot remember a time in my lifetime at least when we did have a top 4 midfield. We have always had a cobbled together side even in 1990. We always have a team full of potential, half of whom are considered "hacks" by a lot of their supporters. some rise to it some don't but I always appreciate those who tried, even in vain, because without them there is no side.
Sometimes you have to put our head between your legs and hope the boys can do the job...even the best coach's in the world have to do this often. You're dealing with people and they are not always the best for the job but what do you do...forfeit...we're a great club, we will always try to win the flag every year. We have a shit success rate but we will always try...the Collingwood way is what we have lived with for the last 50 years and I can't see it changing in a hurry so if you can't get used to it you better find something less strenuous. I have not had fingernails for twenty five years....


And just on a small point. No supporter has ever won a premiership for their team. But many teams have won a premiership for their supporters.