Opinion MODERATE ideas for a 'fairer' AFL without the hyperbole of VIC & non-VIC trolls. TROLLS FROM BOTH SIDES PLEASE KEEP OUT

WestCoast05

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I know, I know - the last thing we need is another thread on this topic right?
However I'll admit as a WA supporter that many WA posters (and other states) are spudding up legitimate discussion with hyperbolic and unrealistic points.

I'm interested in actual non-biased and fair-minded discussion from those who are interested and not just here to do battle - please stay away, there's plenty of other threads for back and forth trolling with extreme POV.

When it comes to the #VICBIAS debate - talks of breakaway leagues, grand statements of "we saved the VFL", or asking Vic clubs to travel more when there is clearly 10 Vic teams - these stupid statements actually take away from actually trying to fix real problems in the AFL when it comes to equality.

So here are some real workable ideas imo:


1 The next season's prime time allocations should be based solely on the ladder position of the club in the preceding season - this one doesn't even effect West Coast as we have effectively monopolised a State. But the current allocation is completely unfair to smaller Melbourne clubs, they should be given a chance to grow and promote their brand too. However let them earn it through on field success. Same with every club.

2 The travel burden of WA teams (and other non-Vic teams to a lesser extent) for the most part CAN'T BE HELPED and it is time some WA supporters realised that. It's just unfortunately a matter of geography.
BUT I'm not sure how many of you know this - it is the AFL that stops WA clubs from chartering flights. And even in not being able to charter flights many players have to fly economy (think about how large some of these players are who have just run themselves ragged). Surely this is one area the AFL can budge on. I'm not even against WAFC paying the excess cost of what the AFL currently pays for the flights.

3 Balanced journalism in the NATIONAL AFL media (but obviously there should be no qualms about Victorian state media focusing or even blindly spruicking their own clubs, each state media does this).
No more Club Presidents etc allowed to help script the media narrative - this is ridiculously unprofessional. Unless you are going to equally allow every club president the ability to do so.
Let's face it, our MRP/Tribunal often works by trial of public opinion/media witchhunt - and having media insiders who can help to get a certain narrative going is an advantage to certain teams. Not just for their own team but for the rubbing out of players of opposing teams.
The NATIONAL media ticks me off more than the FIXture (next point) - the fixture is as it is due to $$$ largely (which is still not a good enough reason over fairness of competition), but the NATIONAL AFL media is stuffed because it is an old boys club. It really is a club. Robbo and Whately have to go, they are as one-eyed for their respective clubs as you can get.

4 The FIXture needs work. In a game where ladder position is often a matter of the smallest of percentages it is no wonder many use the term 'FIXture'.
A good starter would be travel to Tassie and NT shared equally amongst every club. Same as playing Geelong in Geelong. Sydney at the SCG etc
Also each club should literally take it in turn from one season to the next to play either home or away against every other club EG if Collingwood played the Crows in Vic one year then they travel to SA to play them next year.

5 I dont even want to muddy the discussion with the Grand Final debate as the sheer size of the MCG is DAMN impressive for the Grand Final - however I will add that a suitable compromise would be for the AFL to set an 80k minimum standard for stadiums to host the GF. Then it will be up to the states to put their money where their mouth is.


"You joined OUR league" is not a valid argument for any real or perceived unfairness and is actually shows something about the maturity (and personality) of the person stating it - one could just as easily retort that the VFL chose to make themselves a NATIONAL league, noone forced them to do it.
If anything the VFL was shrewd in converting their state league into the national league ahead of anyone else getting the jump on them - but now they have made this power play they need to be at peace with it, the VFL has turned from a state league into the National League.
 
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ziad

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Start with the basics:
  1. 17 game season - reverse H&A each year
  2. Financial equalisation needs to be moderated to reward success and hard work. If not State Govt contributions etc need to be pulled into the Cap.
  3. Most of the others stuff is C grade journalism - there is planty across the full media landscape so we just put up with it.
As an aside I would ban gambling revenue and pokies but that a differnt agenda
 

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HaroLad

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3 Balanced journalism in the NATIONAL AFL media (but obviously there should be no qualms about Victorian state media focusing or even blindly spruicking their own clubs, each state media does this).
No more Club Presidents etc allowed to help script the media narrative - this is ridiculously unprofessional. Unless you are going to equally allow every club president the ability to do so.
And how are you planning on regulating this?
 

WestCoast05

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And how are you planning on regulating this?
For something to change it doesn't have to require regulation, it's a change of direction or vision (have you never been in a team/leadership meeting before?).
Although club staff members (is club presidents) not being given media/commentating gigs could beat good regulation wouldn't you say?

Admittedly it will probably be a generational change more than anything.
A bit of change to the 'jobs for the boys' culture would probably help.

With point 3, the Victorian media do give a lot of credit to interstate teams. I am always miffed as to where this theory that they don't comes from. Victorian media for instance always praises the talent in interstate teams alot more than interstate media do
Yeah I'm not saying they never get mentioned, but even many of your fellow Victorians have acknowledged this too.
In the 2018 finals campaign for example the ignoring of West Coast throughout was actually kinda crazy.
Adam Simpson famously quipped in the lead up to PF "yeah look we're an alright club ourselves guys".
 
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Bloodied52

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Good OP.

CV-19 aside (and it will go on for several years) $s will dictate a 22 game season if it is possible.

Rotating the fixture to ensure better balance is a good idea but maybe averaging out over a four year period.

Blockbusters being restricted to a handful of Clubs should be dispensed with. I would watch a GC v Roos game on Good Friday, a Port v Freo Thursday night season opener or a Saints v GWS game on ANZAC day.

In the financially straightened times ahead there are cases that still can be made for a Tas team. Personally I think the Melbourne market is over egged looking forward and I reckon we should rationalise and drop to 16 teams with Tas included.
 

bh90210fan

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In my view, steps which could be taken;

1) implement a rolling fixture. No traditional double ups. Reward top teams from the previous season with prime time games; Anzac Day, Queens Birthday, Easter Monday etc

2) endeavour to fixture every club 3 games on the mcg each season, If it is to remain the home ground of grand finals for eternity. Which in turn means that every team has to travel to Geelong or Tasmania. And Essendon may host Collingwood at marvel for example. Each team plays away to every venue

3) If we can’t move the grand final for 1 million years, at least for every other final, give every club a home final if they earn it. Marvel tenants get a home final. Geelong get to host a final and Essendon and Carlton get to choose where they host their finals.

At the moment the way the league is structured just gives the MCG tenant clubs too much of an advantage. For a non-Victorian team to win a flag it’s an outstanding achievement. And for a Marvel tenant like the Bulldogs in 2016 to win a flag -even with the umpiring dampener, it’s a minor miracle they won one.
 

RUNVS

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With point 3, the Victorian media do give a lot of credit to interstate teams. I am always miffed as to where this theory that they don't comes from. Victorian media for instance always praises the talent in interstate teams alot more than interstate media do
I think non-Victorian fans dislike of the media is summed up here


From 2:45 onwards they are ranking who was the better player out of Riewoldt and Pavlich and they almost all pick Riewoldt and Brownless's reason for this was "because we did not see enough of Pav over here did we"

They are the football media, it is their jobs to "see" all the players. All AFL media should be required to watch all 9 games in a round, and the fact they don't, seemingly paying more attention to the Victorian clubs is an annoyance.
 

Bloodied52

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Brownless does make Robbo look lucid. On the media and to be fair SEN had been even in giving Non Melbourne coaches a fair crack at it.

This has changed. NM, Freo, GC, Footscray and GWS rarely get a crack. Buckley gets enormous hours every week
 

RUNVS

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Another way to make things a little fairer. Stop sending non-Victorian clubs to play in Hobart and Launceston.

I mean a few Victorian clubs go down there, I think Carlton and North Melbourne did last year, but majority are still non-Victorian clubs. The games in Launceston and Hobart should be exclusively Victorian to try and even out the travel just a little.
 

00Stinger

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I think non-Victorian fans dislike of the media is summed up here


From 2:45 onwards they are ranking who was the better player out of Riewoldt and Pavlich and they almost all pick Riewoldt and Brownless's reason for this was "because we did not see enough of Pav over here did we"

They are the football media, it is their jobs to "see" all the players. All AFL media should be required to watch all 9 games in a round, and the fact they don't, seemingly paying more attention to the Victorian clubs is an annoyance.
Fair point but Brownless is a dickhead so he shouldn't count. He is probably at the bottom of a vary ordinary bunch of football media type.

Its not like most football fans only watch games that are played in Victoria

Say what you want about Terry Wallace but he is one who makes a point of not going on any footy shows until he has watched every game over the weekend

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RUNVS

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Don’t care about the vic state media such as SEN and the like doing their clickbate articles to boost themselves and promote the state clubs, they should be.
But when it’s the actual AFL media and Foxfooty it gets frustrating.


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Agree with that. SEN and the Herald Sun can be as bias as they want, but the national football shows and the national football media should not obviously favour Victoria like they do.
 

Rich01

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I dont even want to muddy the discussion with the Grand Final debate as the sheer size of the MCG is DAMN impressive for the Grand Final - however I will add that a suitable compromise would be for the AFL to set an 80k minimum standard for stadiums to host the GF. Then it will be up to the states to put their money where their mouth is.
Love this. Particularly the last sentence which will be a dealbreaker for the AFL.
 

Rich01

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I think non-Victorian fans dislike of the media is summed up here


From 2:45 onwards they are ranking who was the better player out of Riewoldt and Pavlich and they almost all pick Riewoldt and Brownless's reason for this was "because we did not see enough of Pav over here did we"
Come on mate.
We all know Brownless isnt employed in the media as an analyst. He plays the clown. His opinions on serious football matters are irrelevant and should be immediately discarded.
 

magpielicious

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NEVER going to be an even or equal competition when you have 18 teams and only 25 million people in one country PERIOD !!!
Cities overseas have up to 20 million people and only 1 team, how can we justify 10 teams in one city ?
We have precedents in Fitzroy and Sth Melb...yes it sucks for the supporters of those teams, but each has seen multiple premierships since moving out of Melb. Would they have seen them, let alone play in GF's if they stayed in Melb? Likely No.
 

WestCoast05

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NEVER going to be an even or equal competition when you have 18 teams and only 25 million people in one country PERIOD !!!
Cities overseas have up to 20 million people and only 1 team, how can we justify 10 teams in one city ?
Agreed, competition will never be 100% equal.
That really is a different topic than a thread discussing improvements though, unless your actual premise is that the status quo is where we should leave everything?
 

Fila

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- 17 games a season with a two week bye at the half way point and a one week bye before finals
- Thursday night football every week to allow greater recovery times and wider exposure
- Every club has their own home stadium with identical dimensions that mirror the MCG
- All clubs must exclusively train on their home stadiums
- The GF is to be played at the G (which will be a neutral stadium). MCC and corporate seats are abolished. Club members get first priority
 

manicmagpie

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In relation to Point 4 - this betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of why there are games in Tassie, NT, Ballarat etc to begin with. These are meant to be the less profitable and lower crowd pulling games. The host teams do not want Collingwood, Essendon, Richmond etc playing in those games as this will cost them money not help them out. When these teams start requesting to play Collingwood outside of Melbourne I’m happy for us to go.

Geelong is a different proposition as they have stated their preference is to play as many as possible at KP and not Melbourne. However, this is basically the same position as MCG tenants not wanting to play games at Docklands and getting scheduled there anyway. From a Collingwood perspective, I'm happy for Geelong to play all home games at KP if we get to play all our home games at the MCG.
 

Papa G

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In relation to Point 4 - this betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of why there are games in Tassie, NT, Ballarat etc to begin with. These are meant to be the less profitable and lower crowd pulling games. The host teams do not want Collingwood, Essendon, Richmond etc playing in those games as this will cost them money not help them out. When these teams start requesting to play Collingwood outside of Melbourne I’m happy for us to go.
But if you can't make money except for when you play a team that resides in your own city and provides significant away support , what business do you have being in a so called "national" league? You are effectively a state league side playing in a national league.
 

Sterge

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I know, I know - the last thing we need is another thread on this topic right?
However I'll admit as a WA supporter that many WA posters (and other states) are spudding up legitimate discussion with hyperbolic and unrealistic points.

I'm interested in actual non-biased and fair-minded discussion from those who are interested and not just here to do battle - please stay away, there's plenty of other threads for back and forth trolling with extreme POV.

When it comes to the #VICBIAS debate - talks of breakaway leagues, grand statements of "we saved the VFL", or asking Vic clubs to travel more when there is clearly 10 Vic teams - these stupid statements actually take away from actually trying to fix real problems in the AFL when it comes to equality.

So here are some real workable ideas imo:


1 The next season's prime time allocations should be based solely on the ladder position of the club in the preceding season - this one doesn't even effect West Coast as we have effectively monopolised a State. But the current allocation is completely unfair to smaller Melbourne clubs, they should be given a chance to grow and promote their brand too. However let them earn it through on field success. Same with every club.

2 The travel burden of WA teams (and other non-Vic teams to a lesser extent) for the most part CAN'T BE HELPED and it is time some WA supporters realised that. It's just unfortunately a matter of geography.
BUT I'm not sure how many of you know this - it is the AFL that stops WA clubs from chartering flights. And even in not being able to charter flights many players have to fly economy (think about how large some of these players are who have just run themselves ragged). Surely this is one area the AFL can budge on. I'm not even against WAFC paying the excess cost of what the AFL currently pays for the flights.

3 Balanced journalism in the NATIONAL AFL media (but obviously there should be no qualms about Victorian state media focusing or even blindly spruicking their own clubs, each state media does this).
No more Club Presidents etc allowed to help script the media narrative - this is ridiculously unprofessional. Unless you are going to equally allow every club president the ability to do so.
Let's face it, our MRP/Tribunal often works by trial of public opinion/media witchhunt - and having media insiders who can help to get a certain narrative going is an advantage to certain teams. Not just for their own team but for the rubbing out of players of opposing teams.
The NATIONAL media ticks me off more than the FIXture (next point) - the fixture is as it is due to $$$ largely (which is still not a good enough reason over fairness of competition), but the NATIONAL AFL media is stuffed because it is an old boys club. It really is a club. Robbo and Whately have to go, they are as one-eyed for their respective clubs as you can get.

4 The FIXture needs work. In a game where ladder position is often a matter of the smallest of percentages it is no wonder many use the term 'FIXture'.
A good starter would be travel to Tassie and NT shared equally amongst every club. Same as playing Geelong in Geelong. Sydney at the SCG etc
Also each club should literally take it in turn from one season to the next to play either home or away against every other club EG if Collingwood played the Crows in Vic one year then they travel to SA to play them next year.

5 I dont even want to muddy the discussion with the Grand Final debate as the sheer size of the MCG is DAMN impressive for the Grand Final - however I will add that a suitable compromise would be for the AFL to set an 80k minimum standard for stadiums to host the GF. Then it will be up to the states to put their money where their mouth is.


"You joined OUR league" is not a valid argument for any real or perceived unfairness and is actually shows something about the maturity (and personality) of the person stating it - one could just as easily retort that the VFL chose to make themselves a NATIONAL league, noone forced them to do it.
If anything the VFL was shrewd in converting their state league into the national league ahead of anyone else getting the jump on them - but now they have made this power play they need to be at peace with it, the VFL has turned from a state league into the National League.

1. The problem with this one is that while we all can agree every club should be given equal opportunity what happens with all the money not coming in while smaller clubs 'grow'? Is it time for the AFL to let clubs live or die on their own?

2. Agreed, never realised you were not allowed charter flights, that seems to be a no brainer

3. Please are there any decent journos from interstate that can replace the likes of Tom "i went to melbourne uni and defend myself on twitter' Browne

4. This seems so bleedingly obvious but affects everyone, Richmond for example have not played a home game against North at the MCG since 2012

5. The problem with this is everyone who isn't a bit of a moron knows the MCG is a handicap for interstate teams but a) there is a contract until forever away and b) there is a bit of well why should we care since it benefits us. There is unfortunately no way that the GF is getting changed anytime soon.
 

deck

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Another way to make things a little fairer. Stop sending non-Victorian clubs to play in Hobart and Launceston.

I mean a few Victorian clubs go down there, I think Carlton and North Melbourne did last year, but majority are still non-Victorian clubs. The games in Launceston and Hobart should be exclusively Victorian to try and even out the travel just a little.
The issue with that is the reason they moved home games down there in the first place.
 

WestCoast05

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1. The problem with this one is that while we all can agree every club should be given equal opportunity what happens with all the money not coming in while smaller clubs 'grow'? Is it time for the AFL to let clubs live or die on their own?
I'm not one of those advocating for the death of Melbourne clubs. There's too many today but that ship has sailed and I would hate for there to be less than 18 teams in the comp.
Money is important but fairness in the competition has to take higher precedence.

Besides, I think it was 2018 when there was an absurd number of Friday night Carlton games (when obviously they were not contending) - if a fairer model of programming was used it may have resulted in more competitive matches between competitors and viewership/ratings may have been higher.
 

southcoast

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Is it time for the AFL to let clubs live or die on their own?
Yup.

The issue becomes which ‘live or die’

To me only way to eliminate clubs from AFL is for Commission to establish key metrics over a set period (say 5 yrs) to determine thems who are ‘in’ and the same who are ‘out’

Without analysing club positions metrics could include things like winning percentages, profits made, average crowds, bank balance - no doubt there are other better metrics that could be used but you get the drift.

A wealthy club like my club (WCE) would be measured over the same period and would start from 0 balance like all others.

Far from perfect but ............... something needs to be done.




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