Modern footy vs 86 GF

kickazz

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I watched the 86 Grand Final this morning and wanted to share three observations. Two that didn't suprise me and one that did. Two disclaimers are that this is a sample of one match and secondly it has been a long time since I've watched any old footage.

The three things that stood out were:
  • Skills by foot and hand were inferior to the modern game. So many mungrel punts from both set shots and on the run. Many kicks failed to find their target. I have often read on this forum people lamenting the inability of modern players to kick well off both feet however the execution in the modern game seems of a much higher standard.
  • System - or lack thereof. Maybe it was just this match but the vast majority of the gameplay seemed to be eyes down kicks that were bombed forward to no apparent target. Ultimately the fitter and harder team won.
  • Which brings me to the last point which was suprising to me. We often wax lyrical about the hard men of old however I wonder if this is just because they were able to get away with more and often went the biff. I think our modern generation are harder at the ball within the confines of today's rules. The players in the 86 GF seemed tentative in comparison but maybe thats because they were slower and less fit?
I believe in 86 the players were all fulltime paid professionals however I understand that they didn't have the range of high performance specialty coaching that we have today.

Anyway as I said earlier this is only one match and maybe not a good one to go by?
Question out of left field - do you recon the ball looked to be a slightly different shape to now?
 

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HairyO

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On Suns v old Hawks it imo would depend on what rules and umpiring we went on. Modern interpretations the Suns would win but if you could just go around shirt-fronting ball winners with their head down and belting blokes behind the play with relative impunity 80s style then the Hawks would flog them.
Exactly. 86 rules. 86 interchange. 86 umpiring.86 muddy grounds. Etc.

No way Suns handle that.

Give the 86 Hawks 6 months of modern training for modern rules and they win too.
 

Pessimistic

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Itd take longer thn 6 months for the hawks to adapt and raise fitness, but no way ever would the suns keep their advantage to win seven flags.

Its not just the hawks theyd be playing

Inb4 the suns start winging about the time travel each week ‘1980s victoria centric league’ etc
 

theyellowsash

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Bng ‘86 Hawthorn to 2019, and give them 6 months to train with modern methods and watch tape, and I think the 86 Hawks could be competitive enough. Physically and aptitude for the contest they would be fine. Skills would struggle a bit though.
Yeah but they'd only be good for 1 game cause they'd all be suspended for the next.
 

kickazz

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Depends also on what umpiring standards apply. Today's players would be pinged for throws and incorrect disposal much more often.

But yeah, modern sides would run those blokes off their feet.
 

bluebob1

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I think the fitness aspect is overated. Sanfl sides dont get absolutely overran by the professional Crows Power reserves sides they are fairly competitive. The Hawks would have been fairly fit but not at the level of the Suns no doubt. Some of the elite hawks say Platten seem to run all day. Size would be the big thing. Dermot would actually be a bit too small to play key forward today at only 186cm so this is the thing that would be real trouble for the 86 hawks trying to compete in the air with people 10cms taller than them.
 

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velona

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I watched the 86 Grand Final this morning and wanted to share three observations. Two that didn't suprise me and one that did. Two disclaimers are that this is a sample of one match and secondly it has been a long time since I've watched any old footage.

The three things that stood out were:
  • Skills by foot and hand were inferior to the modern game. So many mungrel punts from both set shots and on the run. Many kicks failed to find their target. I have often read on this forum people lamenting the inability of modern players to kick well off both feet however the execution in the modern game seems of a much higher standard.
  • System - or lack thereof. Maybe it was just this match but the vast majority of the gameplay seemed to be eyes down kicks that were bombed forward to no apparent target. Ultimately the fitter and harder team won.
  • Which brings me to the last point which was suprising to me. We often wax lyrical about the hard men of old however I wonder if this is just because they were able to get away with more and often went the biff. I think our modern generation are harder at the ball within the confines of today's rules. The players in the 86 GF seemed tentative in comparison but maybe thats because they were slower and less fit?
I believe in 86 the players were all fulltime paid professionals however I understand that they didn't have the range of high performance specialty coaching that we have today.

Anyway as I said earlier this is only one match and maybe not a good one to go by?
I watched the 1980 GF on Kayo recently and I have to disagree, that 1980 Richmond team was awesome. Perhaps the 86 GF was just a poor game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Walshawk

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The sun's would destroy them by at least 100 points. The 86 team would be completely bamboozled by a modern zone, and be completely unable the get the ball out of their defensive 50, add to that the sun's of today are taller, faster, stronger and much much fitter... Not to mention better skills. After half time the 86 hawks would be out of gas while the sun's can keep running. It would be a slaughter, sorry to burst your bubble.
What rubbish. You still need good players. Box Hill play a rolling zone, etc same as Hawthorn. They can’t even beat Port Melbourne. When it comes down to a final, pressure, intensity, courage all come to the fore. The Suns have none of that. With one week to review modern tactics, Jeans would know enough to smash the Suns. They have no good player. They are rubbish. Dunstable and Derm v defenders who can’t chop arms, would only need a few opportunities. Platten, Wallace, Buckenara, Dipper, Collins, Ayres, Tuck, Langford, Mew. These guys were champions, and would be in any era. Hawks by plenty. It’s like saying today’s heavyweight champ would beat Ali. The Hawks might be behind at 1/4 time, but they were smart enough, talented enough and their coach would work it out pretty quickly.
 

Kappa

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What rubbish. You still need good players. Box Hill play a rolling zone, etc same as Hawthorn. They can’t even beat Port Melbourne. When it comes down to a final, pressure, intensity, courage all come to the fore. The Suns have none of that. With one week to review modern tactics, Jeans would know enough to smash the Suns. They have no good player. They are rubbish. Dunstable and Derm v defenders who can’t chop arms, would only need a few opportunities. Platten, Wallace, Buckenara, Dipper, Collins, Ayres, Tuck, Langford, Mew. These guys were champions, and would be in any era. Hawks by plenty. It’s like saying today’s heavyweight champ would beat Ali. The Hawks might be behind at 1/4 time, but they were smart enough, talented enough and their coach would work it out pretty quickly.
So much extremely wrong things in 1 post, wow...

Tell me, do you actually understand the basic concept that today's footballers are much much fitter, stronger, smarter, highly skilled and bigger than the past?

Do you understand that the pinnacle of tactics from the 80s was have your best forward deep and kick the ball long?

Do you understand players from the 80s had full time jobs they were doing while playing Footy, and most players did not take the game anywhere near as seriously as they do today?

Do you understand what nostalgia is?
 

Walshawk

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So much extremely wrong things in 1 post, wow...

Tell me, do you actually understand the basic concept that today's footballers are much much fitter, stronger, smarter, highly skilled and bigger than the past?

Do you understand that the pinnacle of tactics from the 80s was have your best forward deep and kick the ball long?

Do you understand players from the 80s had full time jobs they were doing while playing Footy, and most players did not take the game anywhere near as seriously as they do today?

Do you understand what nostalgia is?
Do you understand that Gold Coast have very few good players. As I mentioned, AFL reserves teams are often made up of 18+ full time players. Are you suggesting that a current AFL reserves team would also beat one of the greatest teams of all time, just because they don’t have jobs? I would suggest that the 1980s Hawks took the game fairly seriously. Tactics would not be that important when you have Hombsh on Dunstall and Handley on Brereton. You just have to kick it in that direction like the Tigers do to Riewoldt or Martin. Same out of the backline - teams today still kick long or quickly when under pressure and Mew,Tuck, Dipper, Buckenara, Ayres, Colons and Platten would rack up record co tested possession numbers verses the second rate GC players. A current mid range team would win, but not the bottom team.
If you sent the current GC team back to 1986 for a whole season, opposition team would work them out and they would miss the finals. A team without Any good players will lose more games than they win.
 
Last edited:

Walshawk

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Do you understand that Gold Coast have very few good players. As I mentioned, AFL reserves teams are often made up of 18+ full time players. Are you suggesting that a current AFL reserves team would also beat one of the greatest teams of all time, just because they don’t have jobs? I would suggest that the 1980s Hawks took the game fairly seriously. Tactics would not be that important when you have Hombsh on Dunstall and Handley on Brereton. You just have to kick it in that direction like the Tigers do to Riewoldt or Martin. Same out of the backline - teams today still kick long or quickly when under pressure and Mew,Tuck, Dipper, Buckenara, Ayres, Colons and Platten would rack up record co tested possession numbers verses the second rate GC players. A current mid range team would win, but not the bottom team.
If you sent the current GC team back to 1986 for a whole season, opposition team would work them out and they would miss the finals. A team without Any good players will lose more games than they win.
 

Pessimistic

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It s clear, walshawk, that you and I have a scenario in our heads completely different to what kappa has. Such is the nature of hypotheticals

I really get that superior teams of today would generally beat teams from back then. But kappas hyperbola is not logical. Hes already claimed sucha team would not only play the seven grand finals in a row but win them all. God only know how many premierships kappa thinks this team could win ten? Fifteen?

Hawks had a massive win over the bombers in 83 but the bombers completely turned that around two seasons later it happens. The wheel usually turns.
We wont mention the hawks rebuilt their team over that period with the best players from other leagues, had no salary cap. The suns would be basically trying to keep up with drafting and free agency
 

jarrod_island_doggies

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Surely the Pies Machine and Barassi's 5 flags in 6 seasons Demons would have it all over the '86 Hawks? Or does nostalgia only make teams superhuman if it's within living memory of the supporter?

Suns would have it in the bag before half time.
 

harrythetiger

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What rubbish. You still need good players. Box Hill play a rolling zone, etc same as Hawthorn. They can’t even beat Port Melbourne. When it comes down to a final, pressure, intensity, courage all come to the fore. The Suns have none of that. With one week to review modern tactics, Jeans would know enough to smash the Suns. They have no good player. They are rubbish. Dunstable and Derm v defenders who can’t chop arms, would only need a few opportunities. Platten, Wallace, Buckenara, Dipper, Collins, Ayres, Tuck, Langford, Mew. These guys were champions, and would be in any era. Hawks by plenty. It’s like saying today’s heavyweight champ would beat Ali. The Hawks might be behind at 1/4 time, but they were smart enough, talented enough and their coach would work it out pretty quickly.
Port Melbourne aren't playing 1980s football either. Bombing it down the ground simply plays into the hands of modern defences, if a team tried that it'd be 5 on 1 at every marking contest.

AFL affiliated VFL teams are playing very slightly more advanced game plans than non affiliated opposition. The reason non-affiliated teams succeed is usually due to older more mature bodies able to go harder for longer, AFL-affiliated teams are often filled with underdeveloped 18 year olds. While the Suns have a high proportion of young, inexperienced players, they are well above the experience of VFL teams.

Jeans would not be able to work it out quickly, when a team takes defence to a new level, it can take years for the entire competition to figure out a way to reliably beat it. And it's often only a small defensive improvement. You reckon in one week any coach would be able to a) work out how to beat tactics 3 decades ahead of what they are dealing with now, and b) get an entire team to learn this perfectly.

And its not just a modern defence he has to work out. He has to combat modern midfield strategies, modern offensive strategies, and deal with the fact he's still going to have to play a fairly traditional positional structure, otherwise his players will be cooked by quarter time.

Gold Coast by 20 goals (at half time)
 

HairyO

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Port Melbourne aren't playing 1980s football either. Bombing it down the ground simply plays into the hands of modern defences, if a team tried that it'd be 5 on 1 at every marking contest.

AFL affiliated VFL teams are playing very slightly more advanced game plans than non affiliated opposition. The reason non-affiliated teams succeed is usually due to older more mature bodies able to go harder for longer, AFL-affiliated teams are often filled with underdeveloped 18 year olds. While the Suns have a high proportion of young, inexperienced players, they are well above the experience of VFL teams.

Jeans would not be able to work it out quickly, when a team takes defence to a new level, it can take years for the entire competition to figure out a way to reliably beat it. And it's often only a small defensive improvement. You reckon in one week any coach would be able to a) work out how to beat tactics 3 decades ahead of what they are dealing with now, and b) get an entire team to learn this perfectly.

And its not just a modern defence he has to work out. He has to combat modern midfield strategies, modern offensive strategies, and deal with the fact he's still going to have to play a fairly traditional positional structure, otherwise his players will be cooked by quarter time.

Gold Coast by 20 goals (at half time)
So by today's standard Maurice Rioli would not even make VFL Reserves level.
 

harrythetiger

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So by today's standard Maurice Rioli would not even make VFL Reserves level.
Maybe VFL reserves or even VFL level, but if we’re just putting him in a time machine and bringing him to the present day there’s almost no chance he’d have the fitness to play AFL level. Would take a few years to catch up.
 

Foucault1989

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I haven't played football in 15 years where I was a below average junior footballer playing in the forward pocket without ever kicking many goals but with modern zones I could smash the Hawthorn 86 team. They were hacks and I'm a supreme modern athlete
 

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