'Modern heroes'? Assange, Manning, Snowden, Hammond...

DivideandMultiply

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Indeed. In the end these whistleblowers have pretty much wasted their time because, as usual, people are unwilling to see the forest for the trees: we need less government involvement in our lives, not different government.

We have inherently corrupt governments because the nature of government is inherently corrupt.
No, we don't need less government in the absolute sense, we need greater oversight and to cut the ties between vested interest and government.

Corporate rule is an unacceptable alternative. It is villainy in the private sector, which has largely eroded the integrity of the system.

However, I do agree that there are many things which the government does that are overbearing. The TPP should be canned, the intelligence services reined in, the DSTO subject to thorough review and greater oversight. Anti terror laws scrapped, allowing greater foreign competition into the domestic home loans market and so on and so forth.

Banning corporate electoral donations, stricter oversight of COI's and clamping down on the revolving door, by penalising political pensions, of politicians that promote legislation for jobs, would do far more to fix the system, then arbitrary or selective deregulation and cutting the public service. Otherwise we will just end up following the yanks in their slow slip towards corporatism.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of limited government powers and a more accountable, less wasteful public service, I just don't think this is the end game for faux conservative think tanks like the IPA, or bunk political movements like the Tea Party. More a Trojan Horse, disguised by appealing (to some) ideals.
 

DivideandMultiply

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This is the jobs for the boys malarky I am talking about. He did as much to promote the pro "security" agenda as any figure during the Jr. administration. Turned a nice buck as a lobbyist for companies which stood to benefit from the growing security state post appointment and now has landed a cushy job, providing a nice PR boost for one of the most despicable companies in modern history.
 

medusala

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D&M there is heaps of oversight but what has it achieved? How many regulatory bodies have any success?

All they do is act as a fig leaf to cover up corruption and incompetence. Ie ASIC took no action so everything is above board.

Onion skin. The more layers, the harder it is to get to the core of the problem

I'm with evo

Less is more.
 

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evo

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No, we don't need less government in the absolute sense, we need greater oversight and to cut the ties between vested interest and government.
greater oversight requires even more government! Your proposal is that we need ever larger government to monitor the government. How do we trust that those monitoring the government haven't also been infiltrated or corrupted by corporate interest as well? Where does it end?
Corporate rule is an unacceptable alternative. It is villainy in the private sector, which has largely eroded the integrity of the system.
thankfully i wasn't proposing corporate rule as an alternative. I would much prefer instituitions such as the NSA be abandoned altogether. Who are they protecting us from anyway?
 

DivideandMultiply

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greater oversight requires even more government! Your proposal is that we need ever larger government to monitor the government. Where does it end?
thankfully i wasn't proposing corporate rule as an alternative. I would much prefer instituitions such as the NSA be abandoned altogether. Who are they protecting us from anyway?
No, it requires effective oversight.

This was in reference to our electoral system, not the various intelligence agencies. I agree, I would prefer we abandon institutions such as the NSA, as long as their role is not outsourced to private enterprise.
 

medusala

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D&M I like your work on this thread but its fanciful to argue for effective oversight of government. Even when the stench is overbearing an a Royal Commission or similar occurs its generally a whitewash. NSW and Queensland were rotten for decades. Public servants selling data has been going on for decades as well. It used to be 50c a name and address, don't know what it is now. If you appoint your mate on some joke PS body they are hardly going to dump you in it. Grace and favours. That is how it works.

The only body that sometimes does it is the press. Hence all governments being so keen to muzzle them.

The Guardian should be sticking up for newspapers being able to pay public service whistleblowers rather than it being a crime and the newspaper staff involved being criminally charged.
 

blackcat

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No, it requires effective oversight.

This was in reference to our electoral system, not the various intelligence agencies. I agree, I would prefer we abandon institutions such as the NSA, as long as their role is not outsourced to private enterprise.
yeah, the premise was the oversight = effective.

but regulatory bodies take no time to be captured. It is like doping in sport.

Also think, the greater the size of the organisation and the complexity, the percentage of conspiracies become greater pro rata. speculative Imagine when/if the US is the size of China. And China is twice its size.
 

clogged

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yeah, the premise was the oversight = effective.

but regulatory bodies take no time to be captured. It is like doping in sport.
It is because at the management level there is no differentiation between CEO and regulator/legislator. One job opens the door for the next.

There may be ways to curtail it. For instance Alexander Downer and John Brumby pimping for Huawei is fine, but why then should the populace be on the hook for their parliamentary pensions etc? The gravy train should not be allowed to endlessly roll on.
 

DivideandMultiply

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It is because at the management level there is no differentiation between CEO and regulator/legislator. One job opens the door for the next.

There may be ways to curtail it. For instance Alexander Downer and John Brumby pimping for Huawei is fine, but why then should the populace be on the hook for their parliamentary pensions etc? The gravy train should not be allowed to endlessly roll on.
I am in complete agreement.

Whilst I have no doubt companies still employ illegal inducements, bribery to a degree has been made largely redundant by how effective and seamlessly the revolving door between elected officials or public servants and industry seems to operate.
 

blackcat

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I am in complete agreement.

Whilst I have no doubt companies still employ illegal inducements, bribery to a degree has been made largely redundant by how effective and seamless the revolving door between elected officials or public servants and industry seems to operate.
those in the top rank at the SEC get their final few years at Wall Street, or a hedgie on one million per, to set up their retirement and holiday villa
 

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Chameleon75

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None of which contradicts what I sad a whole lot of moral projection

Now what good has he actually done? What corruption has he actually exposed?

Zero

Governments spying on each other is old old news. I suggest peter wright's 1987 biography spy catcher might interest you

Governments are a allowed to surveil their populace, and all he did was show terrorist groups how they are being monitored

He's not a hero, he's a low level functionary who only exposed lack of data security & access control. And for what? To satisfy a few childish delusions?

Anarchist trouble maker at best, but I think he lacks focus & purpose for that. Just an immature idiot who didn't know what he was even trying to do & is now re-writing his motivations to give them meaning & substance. When he had & still has none
here's another anarchist trouble maker warning about vigilance.

 

skilts

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Heres another commy loving anarchist

The end of the concept of a declaration of war, when the US decides to invade another country. It is better kept secret. No statement is more revealing of US foreign policy in the 50 years hence. A pudendum, as are, and were, all who travelled and travel with him to this day. Still, he elicited a laugh from the toadies, and that was all that mattered. As with our Hawke, it mattered not whom he was rooting. That was 'in club', for those fearless journalists. No compromise there.
 
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evo

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The end of the concept of a declaration of war, when the US decides to invade another country. It is better kept secret. No statement is more revealing of US foreign policy in the 50 years hence. A pudendum, as are, and were, all who travelled and travel with him to this day. Still, he elicited a laugh from the toadies, and that was all that mattered. As with our Hawke, it mattered not whom he was rooting. That was 'in club', for those fearless journalists. No compromise there.
He always spoke with forked tongue. No doubt he gave great oral, but it was Kennedy that escalated the most disgraceful war of modern times. Here he is complaining about the press revealing the shenaghins and he is made out as if he is a hero.
 

medusala

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anyone got the Orwell quote on complicated/complex narration is equivalent to a lie

or was is someone else?
My sig used to be

In a time of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

An SRP Jacobin howled with outrage. Full moon effort.

maybe you meant

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
HLM
 

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