General Bombers Talk Mods - this board is impossible to read

[Ben the Gooner]

So because one poster isn't posting the aim of increasing traffic has failed?

I'd say the increased number of posts is evidence that it has worked.

 

[smcateer]

Hadn't considered that, actually.

Yes a good point. You can't close the Hurley thread!

 

[gPhonque]

@gPhonque: Thanks, but you're also making a few baseless comments there.

No I'm not. The only baseless comment I made was that perhaps board activity hasn't increased like you think it has. The link you provided doesn't explain anything. If you can show me the stats for the same period last year, then that would tell us something. That said, I'm happy to be proven wrong on this point. I have no issue at all with you guys wanting to increase chat during the off-season. Only with the way you've gone about it. (creating a mess)

This was thought up and planned for a few months before we went ahead with it. We knew there were pros and cons, like with everything.

Ok then. So obviously this new format has some "cons", as you admitted above, and as has been confirmed in this thread. (not just by me, but by others as well)

So what exactly were the "cons" to running the forum the old (normal) way?

You say you haven't posted over the preseason, when you average less than a post a day over 11 years, is it that much different? Also, between your last post on here 30th of November 2011 and until this thread two days ago, you've made a grand total of two posts on other football boards. So what's stopped you everywhere else? As you say, we're the only board doing it.

Hmmm. Let me think. Why wouldn't I post as much about football from November to mid-March?

And of course it's our "job" to encourage discussion on a, erm, discussion forum.

Is it? I would have thought your job is to enforce the forum rules, remove offensive posts, and keep the forum functioning for all.

Not just the regulars.

And not just the posters either for that matter.

But for ALL users.

Because let's not forget that we've both so far completely ignored the large group of forum users who lurk/read and rarely post at all.

 

[Charliebrow 16]

I'm really quite torn and indecisive on the issue. This has been a difficult pre-season in which to endure because as Essendon fans, we haven't really been involved. All has been quiet, there have been no comprehensive training reports, we've had to salvage a few scraps of information that the club has deliberately fed us in order to initiate some discussion.

So, on one hand, I think it has been wonderful and an overwhelming success that this board has implemented a system in which to increase discussion all throughout the pre-season (player watch threads now being more prominent on the main Essendon board, for example), because normally it's all very quiet. I think the moderators need to be congratulated there for their forward thinking and courage to overhaul something which was/is so successful.

On the other hand, I have concerns over how this system is going to continue when the home and away season begins for us in two weeks. After barely any information over pre-season, things are going to become chaotic both in the lead-up and aftermath to what is sure to be a spiteful encounter with North Melbourne. There's going to be so much to discuss, so much to reflect upon, and those "mega threads" are going to move at a rapid rate.

For instance, I won't be able to come online on the night of our game or even the day afterwards because I'm participating in Relay For Life. When I belatedly sign in to view what everybody else thought of the game and how they've dissected each player's individual performance, I'll have these enormous threads to comb through and contend with. Ideally, I want to see individual threads each with their own discussion so that I can choose which thread I wish to read in order of my own personal preference.

I also think, as has been said, that if the latter scenario were to eventuate, we would no longer be alienating the more casual readers and potential new members to the website. I think this change worked sensationally well over pre-season, and I would encourage it to be implemented again next pre-season, but when the proper matches begin and when four points are up for grabs, I believe a return of new threads for new discussions should be the way to go.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

Because let's not forget that we've both so far completely ignored the large group of forum users who lurk/read and rarely post at all.

Why on earth would people who do not actually contribute to a forum be catered to?

 

[Kong]

Ok then. So obviously this new format has some "cons", as you admitted above, and as has been confirmed in this thread. (not just by me, but by others as well)

So what exactly were the "cons" to running the forum the old (normal) way?

I'm not sure if you remember, but previously this board's been a wasteland before the changes over the off-season.

No training reports, 36 "Best 22" threads, and not much else.

For a discussion forum to have almost no discussion is a pretty obvious "con".

Hmmm. Let me think. Why wouldn't I post as much about football from November to mid-March?

So it's made absolutely no difference to your posting then?

But I thought you said it's stopped you from posting in Hurley threads like you normally would?

Is it? I would have thought your job is to enforce the forum rules, remove offensive posts, and keep the forum functioning for all.

Yep, all part of it.

But if you think not being proactive and aiming to always improve the board isn't part of the caper, well we'll have to agree to disagree.

I've even asked people for suggestions on how to improve this, to improve the trial. I'm open to yours.

Because let's not forget that we've both so far completely ignored the large group of forum users who lurk/read and rarely post at all.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to be rude here, but if you think a discussion forum should be more concerned with people that don't actually post, rather than the community of people that do.. Well bugger me.

If people don't contribute, really, they have no right to say how things should be done.

 

[Kong]

I think this change worked sensationally well over pre-season, and I would encourage it to be implemented again next pre-season, but when the proper matches begin and when four points are up for grabs, I believe a return of new threads for new discussions should be the way to go.

Yeah, per post #72, it's definitely a possiblity.

Once the real stuff starts again, if people are unanimous in wanting to the old system to return, it'll happen.

 

[gPhonque]

Why on earth would people who do not actually contribute to a forum be catered to?

Good lord... (ok, excuse the bad and extremely cheesy pun..)

Is that really what you think? Firstly, I'm glad you're not a mod. edit: I've just noticed that Kong agrees. Well, God help us all...

So the only people who matter are those who post 20 times a day? This is EXACTLY the kind of thinking that lead to the ruin of the other board I've mentioned. All you'll end up with is a boys club, with the same people in every thread.

Secondly, I take offence to that statement. I'll often go through stages where I'll not post for weeks/months (I generally try to read a bit every day though) and then, a discussion will pop up that I'll have quite an interest in (or I'll have time to post) and I'll post 20 times in a couple of days. But, because I don't post religiously in every single thread, I'm "not a contributor", and therefore, shouldn't be catered for in any way?

That's absurd.

The other forum I'd call myself a "regular" on is the biggest audio engineering forum on the net. I've been a member there since 2005, yet I've only posted about 70 times. Probably half of those posts have been helping people with tricky and hard-to-solve software and hardware issues; helping people resolve bugs etc.

I check that forum anywhere between 5-10 times every day... sometimes more. And I do what most people do (and what we should be able to do here) - I browse the topic list based on the title of the thread, I always read the OP (which is just about impossible here as there is no such thing anymore!) and, if I feel the need to, I reply.

Yet, in your mind, because I actually have a life (hell, I should be working right now! haha) and don't post like a maniac, I shouldn't be catered for in any way?

As I said, that's exactly the kind of thinking that will destroy a board.

If you guys want to end up with a forum where the only people who post (and after time, read as well) are a small group of heavy posters, then keep heading down the path you're heading down.

If you want an easily accessible board that caters to heavy and light users, then ditch this ridiculous format and let's use the forum software the way it was intended to be used.

If people don't contribute, really, they have no right to say how things should be done.

This comment concerns me, as it tells us that you guys are basically treating this board as your own personal play thing. Again, let me remind you that it is a public forum with thousands of readers. Catering to a very small percentage of heavy posters is simply absurd.

Once the real stuff starts again, if people are unanimous in wanting to the old system to return, it'll happen.

That, however, is good to hear.

(again, I'm not criticizing this format for the sake of it. I just don't want to see this board - of which I've been a reader and occasional poster for over 10 years now - destroyed by a small group of heavy posters who are not thinking about anyone else. That's all.)

 

[Kong]

Yeah no worries, I'm glad you brought this up, because evidently it's not as close a done deal as it could've otherwise been seen as.

As I keep saying, it's a trial. Trial and error, if you will.

 

[Kyptastic]

Realistically, this isn't going to be too much of an issue by the time the season proper rolls around. All these player watch threads are going to be bumped down in the lead up to a proper game as you're going to have threads on:

• 
  Pre match build up

• 
  The selected team

• 
  Gameday

• 
  Match Review

• 
  Forum BnF votes

• 
  Changes for next week

that will pop up on a weekly basis. All these player watch threads will get bumped down naturally and will only come up if there's something worth talking about (their recent performance, an interview they did, comments made by commentators/coaching staff etc.). The forum's going to be pretty much the same as it's always been, except that instead of four or five roast/toast threads after a game, those discussions will go in the player threads and, if the mods are doing their job and updating thread titles based on the current discussion, it should be pretty easy for anyone to keep up to date.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

Yet, in your mind, because I actually have a life (hell, I should be working right now! haha) and don't post like a maniac, I shouldn't be catered for in any way?

Yup, was waiting for the ad hominem bullcrap to come out. Well done.

Everyone matters, but in terms of determining what shape the a given message board should take, what is paramount is discussion, not readership. Those who contribute are obviously going to have more of say than those who don't because they're the ones who are actually having a say.

There is absolutely no logical process to this argument. How are you not catered for in any way? The posts are still there, the posts are all readable all the time, there are several options open to you if you want to find something specific, you just have to work a little bit harder because you're not here regularly if you want to find something absolutely specific.

This "oh, you'll become a boys club" nonsense is of the same vein as your "megathreads kill forums, I've seen it" hokum - it's baseless and hysterical. How is it a boy's club? How is any poster barred from making any post anywhere at any given time? Joe Bloggs can waltz into a thread about Alwyn Davey and ask if he can finally pick up the pill without 5 fumbles - without any prextex or context or anything whatsoever, and people will be more than willing to engage in discussion.

You don't have to be "in" to know what people are talking about - if you follow Essendon you're kinda going to know what we mean when we're talking about Michael Hurley's contract, you don't need to go through the Paddling of the Swollen Ass to understand some kind of lingo or in-joke that is being used. Since you've opened the ad hominem gates yourself, I'm seriously questioning your comprehension skills here if you've wandered into the Scott Gumbleton thread and you're completely bamboozled by this crazy talk about him being injured, or are wondering about why people are hob-nobbing about Paddy Ryder's consistency. Even if you are, you're allowed (yes, even lurkers and non-regular posters!) to click back a page or two to the start of that particular discussion. Even I do that and I'm fairly regular these days.

Seriously, this is like picking up a serialised TV show halfway through and then complaining that they're not explaining everything that happened beforehand in detail. But if you just engaged with what was actually happening instead of spending so much time and wordpower on bitching about it, you might actually find it fairly comprehensible and useable.

 

[The House]

fwiw i would think that the advertisers on this site would be looking at how much traffic is on the boards - if a board has shitloads of people perusing and hardly ever posting, the value of the add remains the same.

In other words, any set of eyeballs looking at this site are just as valuable as any other set of eyeballs, irrespective of weather they post often or not.

I really don't like the new format for a couple of reasons....

1. It seems messier - at a glance, which is often how i view this board, it's harder to instantly identify threads that take my interest.

2. It seems already that a lot of the content i want is lost in the player boards - eg, talk about how we should structure our forward line, or how best to set up our run from defense etc are topics that would previously been in a thread of their own, but now are now a small part of a conversational tangent on the Carlilsle thread or Myers thread (warning: these are made up examples only!)

Unquestionably the traffic through the player boards has been increased, however for me, i'm not sure that's a good thing. - how is the traffic on the Essendon board overall compared to the same time in the last few years??

If people are just posting on player threads and there has been a decrease in posts on the regular threads, then bigfooty hasn't really gained anything imo.

I'm not saying I won't get used to the new format and eventually like it more than the old one, however 1. I doubt it, and 2. I'm still not there yet.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

2. It seems already that a lot of the content i want is lost in the player boards - eg, talk about how we should structure our forward line, or how best to set up our run from defense etc are topics that would previously been in a thread of their own, but now are now a small part of a conversational tangent on the Carlilsle thread or Myers thread (warning: these are made up examples only!)

Using that example, why not just start a thread called "Our forward line" and prompt discussion about it in general. AFAIK, that wouldn't fall under any existing topic.

Really, the player threads should only cover something pertaining specifically to that one individual player. And from what I've seen, that's what has been going on.

 

[Kong]

2. It seems already that a lot of the content i want is lost in the player boards - eg, talk about how we should structure our forward line, or how best to set up our run from defense etc are topics that would previously been in a thread of their own, but now are now a small part of a conversational tangent on the Carlilsle thread or Myers thread (warning: these are made up examples only!)

What Lord Nicholson said.

Nobody's discussing it? Create and thread and let them discuss it. This system's not stopping you from doing that at all.

Unquestionably the traffic through the player boards has been increased, however for me, i'm not sure that's a good thing. - how is the traffic on the Essendon board overall compared to the same time in the last few years??

If people are just posting on player threads and there has been a decrease in posts on the regular threads, then bigfooty hasn't really gained anything imo.

No that's what I'm saying; pre-season activity for this year is 10x that of before we brought this in, or of last year (outside the rare press conference of Bomber/Hird/the open training session).

 

[The House]

Realistically, this isn't going to be too much of an issue by the time the season proper rolls around. All these player watch threads are going to be bumped down in the lead up to a proper game as you're going to have threads on:

• Pre match build up

• The selected team

• Gameday

• Match Review

• Forum BnF votes

• Changes for next week

that will pop up on a weekly basis. All these player watch threads will get bumped down naturally and will only come up if there's something worth talking about (their recent performance, an interview they did, comments made by commentators/coaching staff etc.). The forum's going to be pretty much the same as it's always been, except that instead of four or five roast/toast threads after a game, those discussions will go in the player threads and, if the mods are doing their job and updating thread titles based on the current discussion, it should be pretty easy for anyone to keep up to date.

I agree mostly with what you say about the prominent threads being near the top when the season starts, however I also suspect that if we want to discuss how a particular player went on the weekend or in recent weeks (which we often do), then we will have to go into their player thread and start clicking back pages and looking at the dates until we get to the time and date the game finished.....

....seeing an easy header such as "Our short kicking from defense" or "Hibberd turnovers" or "Slattery's 5 goal + 12 goal assists performance this week" , is better for two reasons:

1. It's a quick reference on the Essendon board, and it's just easier as you can click to the beginning of the topic in one click, and

2. It gives you a quick overview of what the conversation is about, which sparks your interest - often i/we check out a thread intending to skim over a page, only to find the topic/contributions interesting and end up reading a few pages. However if it's all in a player thread (along with all the other info about the player), I'll often not open it up at all, because as far as i'm concerned it's a conversation about a player, rather than something specific.

 

[Slattery_20]

I agree mostly with what you say about the prominent threads being near the top when the season starts, however I also suspect that if we want to discuss how a particular player went on the weekend or in recent weeks (which we often do), then we will have to go into their player thread and start clicking back pages and looking at the dates until we get to the time and date the game finished.....

....seeing an easy header such as "Our short kicking from defense" or "Hibberd turnovers" or "Slattery's 5 goal + 12 goal assists performance this week" , is better for two reasons:

1. It's a quick reference on the Essendon board, and it's just easier as you can click to the beginning of the topic in one click, and

2. It gives you a quick overview of what the conversation is about, which sparks your interest - often i/we check out a thread intending to skim over a page, only to find the topic/contributions interesting and end up reading a few pages. However if it's all in a player thread (along with all the other info about the player), I'll often not open it up at all, because as far as i'm concerned it's a conversation about a player, rather than something specific.

But after a while, they drop off anyway... all topics... so you'll be searching regardless.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

I agree mostly with what you say about the prominent threads being near the top when the season starts, however I also suspect that if we want to discuss how a particular player went on the weekend or in recent weeks (which we often do), then we will have to go into their player thread and start clicking back pages and looking at the dates until we get to the time and date the game finished.....

....seeing an easy header such as "Our short kicking from defense" or "Hibberd turnovers" or "Slattery's 5 goal + 12 goal assists performance this week" , is better for two reasons:

1. It's a quick reference on the Essendon board, and it's just easier as you can click to the beginning of the topic in one click, and

2. It gives you a quick overview of what the conversation is about, which sparks your interest - often i/we check out a thread intending to skim over a page, only to find the topic/contributions interesting and end up reading a few pages. However if it's all in a player thread (along with all the other info about the player), I'll often not open it up at all, because as far as i'm concerned it's a conversation about a player, rather than something specific.

But there'll be a thread for each specific game (I assume) in which I daresay there would be discussion to that effect.

And if it's a recurring, non-game specific thing with a certain player, it won't be too hard to find in the player thread.

And if it's non-game specific, non-player specific, then it'll get its own topic entirely.

 

[The House]

Using that example, why not just start a thread called "Our forward line" and prompt discussion about it in general. AFAIK, that wouldn't fall under any existing topic.

Really, the player threads should only cover something pertaining specifically to that one individual player. And from what I've seen, that's what has been going on.

What Lord Nicholson said.

Nobody's discussing it? Create and thread and let them discuss it. This system's not stopping you from doing that at all.No that's what I'm saying; pre-season activity for this year is 10x that of before we brought this in, or of last year (outside the rare press conference of Bomber/Hird/the open training session).

Sorry, to clarify: It's not so much about starting a thread, it's more about what's already there.....by that i mean the there are already conversations within player threads that have gone off on a tagent regarding that player's area on the field, or their role/how people think they best fit into the side, and naturally it turns into a conversation about who else could do the role, or what other options people prefer - unless i'm trawling through the player thread and stumble across it, I won't see it.

However, if there's a thread created to discuss this, i am able to easily identify it straight away, and if it interests me, I'll look.

And Kong, fair enough - activity going up in the pre season is more than enough reason to impliment this in the pre season....and if activity goes up substantially in the regular season, that's also enough reason to impliment it into the regular season too. - i guess i'm just putting my own personal opinion on record, which is so far that I much prefer the previous version.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

Sorry, to clarify: It's not so much about starting a thread, it's more about what's already there.....by that i mean the there are already conversations within player threads that have gone off on a tagent regarding that player's area on the field, or their role/how people think they best fit into the side, and naturally it turns into a conversation about who else could do the role, or what other options people prefer - unless i'm trawling through the player thread and stumble across it, I won't see it.

That's true.

Would it not be possible, though, for a discussion to be extracted into its own thread if it did indeed reach that level? It might be extra mod work, but I think it would satisfy many concerns and if I'm not much mistaken, something to that effect already happens on occasion.

 

[Kong]

Not too much effort for us at all; I do it all of the time.

I haven't seen any tangents amongst player threads needing their own threads, but in case I've missed them, let me know and I'll get to work.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Players threads back where they belong, simple solution. I don't care I am more interested in the game threads anyway...I hope like hell they are not moved into a players thread!

 

[The Prosecutor]

Players threads back where they belong, simple solution. I don't care I am more interested in the game threads anyway...I hope like hell they are not moved into a players thread!

1) Back to a wasteland where they don't get discussed at all?

2) Why the hell would they? (in regards to math day threads being merged)

 

[Tassieboy]

I'm not bothering to read through this entire thread, but is there some way Weevil or whoever can only get the players threads not to show up when you select 'no prefix'?

 

[Tassieboy]

I hope like hell they are not moved into a players thread!

As likely as a Gumbleton playing all 22 games.

 

[IriDiuM]

I'm not bothering to read through this entire thread, but is there some way Weevil or whoever can only get the players threads not to show up when you select 'no prefix'?

Easiest solution by far, if its possible.