More at stake for Sydney

[Lithium]

Similar to Hawthorn. There was the myth about high draft picks and free agency but you built the team through some very smart trading.

Oh my God! I'm in a mutual appreciation conversation with a Hawthorn supporter. We're through the looking glass people!

What's even more is that I share a similar opinion on Geelong! I genuinely think all three clubs should be nothing but admired for the way they have gone about it recently.

 

[Dinsdale]

hey OP are you Bruce Macaveney in real life? "you'd think" x 4 times...just need a "wouldn't you " at the end of each question...

Anyhow, I think both teams will be up an about next season no matter who wins, neither has too many oldies, both have youngsters showing a lot of promise. Swans may lose a few of those youngsters in the trade period as the Buddy contract squeezes them out...

 

[Bokonon]

Given both teams have played three tough finals surely it is equal. The only rational difference would to detail who is bruised and sore or otherwise impeded, and neither club is going to volounteer that information to opposition tacticians. We are then reduced to naming players who obviously have been injured who may or may not be affected rhis week.
Of course the Swans are under pressure but I get the argument the pressure is heavier on the Bulldogs because they haven't played a GF in a long time. History would say this is an advantage to the Swans as is finishing higher on the ladder.

 

[bungwahl]

I think sometimes we don't appreciate just how hard it is to win a flag. Par for the course is your club winning the flag once every 18 years, though often some clubs get a few in quick succession whilst others go stretches without.

Yes Sydney rolled the flag dice by bringing in Tippett and Franklin, as did other sides like Geelong with Dangerfield and even the Bulldogs with Tom Boyd. Every year there are 8-10 teams desperately trying to win the flag (assuming the others are in some phase of resurgence or rebuilding).

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Who is suspect for the Bulldogs?

The whole team were as good as out on their feet by the end of Saturday. It was a far more taxing encounter than for us against Geelong. Can they bounce back once more? I honestly don't know, but to overlook that they might not just bounce back for the granny, fresh as a daisy and raring to go, is perhaps a little simplistic.

 

[Jase Cutler]

And here we are again.

When is the afl community going to get over the generational concept?
Most of Sydney's gun players are in their mid 20s ffs.

It seems that at every possible juncture, people start looking for the next gun young side, or reasons a good side can't stay where they are. It happened in 2004 - Brisbane were still good enough to make a grand final and Sydney and West Coast were on the verge of a run of success - all the whisper was about the young geelong and St Kilda sides. Meanwhile the Eagles, swans, pies and Hawks were putting together premiership teams, and St Kilda missed out altogether. Cats lose a preliminary final in 2010, they're gone and the Pies have a dynasty at their feet. Hawks lose 2011 prelim and 2012 GF and they've cooked their chance. Look how all that worked out for everyone.

Can we just appreciate what is in front of us until it isn't there anymore?

You're right

Callum Mills: 19
Isaac Heeney:20
Tom Papley: 20
George Hewett: 20
Zac Jones: 21
Aliir Aliir: 22
Luke Parker: 23
Tom Mitchell: 23
Xavier Richards: 23
Jake Lloyd: 23
Dan Hannebury: 25
Gary Rohan: 25
Dane Rampe: 26
Jeremy Laidler: 27
Josh Kennedy: 28
Lance Franklin: 29
Tippet: 29
Kieren Jack: 29
McVeigh; Grundy: 30 (or over)

 

[underthestars]

People think the Dogs will have more chances down the track. Very likely. But just as likely the Swans will be there again - a lot of youth in that team on the verge of being elite, and their supreme midfield has years in them.
Along with GWS i expect the two grand finalists to dominate the comp for the next five years.

 

[Fabes]

You're right

Callum Mills: 19
Isaac Heeney:20
Tom Papley: 20
George Hewett: 20
Zac Jones: 21
Aliir Aliir: 22
Luke Parker: 23
Tom Mitchell: 23
Xavier Richards: 23
Jake Lloyd: 23
Dan Hannebury: 25
Gary Rohan: 25
Dane Rampe: 26
Jeremy Laidler: 27
Josh Kennedy: 28
Lance Franklin: 29
Tippet: 29
Kieren Jack: 29
McVeigh; Grundy: 30 (or over)

Geez that looks great on paper especially with their ages. They could be around the mark for the next few years.

 

[JoondalupJ]

The talk, as predicted, has been the feel good story which is the Western Bulldogs. A huge achievement to turn the club around in such little time, to make a GF, and to make it from 7th. A lot of fans have been set up to fail, but you can't help but think if they don't win that they'll be a force again in 17. They're young, confident, skilled, and well coached. Time on their side, for now.

Sydney on the other hand were the star side of 2014, coming back from a Premiership in 12 with the old guard and a preliminary Final in 13. They added the best player to their war chest and Tippett, an attractive and mobile tall forward/ruck. They built for the short term success. Understandable. It's looked like its paying off.

But on reflection, if they don't win another flag with Kennedy, Hannebery, McVeigh, Jack, Parker, Grundy, Rohan, Franklin, and Tippett, you can't help but feel they've missed out. Making a GF is hard, winning one harder. If they don't win on Saturday I think there will be serious pressure going forward to get back in contention. Competition will be fiercer from developing clubs, and the Sydney list will be getting older.

I think the pressure is equally on the Swans here, and a failure on Saturday after a top of the table finish would cast some doubts going forward for the clubs next short term flag tilt. All those players I mentioned need to move up a gear on Saturday, and need to prove they can deliver on the biggest stage.[/QUOTE=

The same thing was said about Hawthorn vs Fremantle in 2013. Hawks had to win or they'd have blown their run, whereas Fremantle were expected to be on the dawn of a new era.[/QUOTE

I think Hawthorn were a totally different side to Sydney this year as opposed to us in 2013, Sydney had won in 2012 and were trying to keep up at the top , Hawthorn were about to slip into top gear, I think Sydney have a long long wait for another shot, its harder to pick players that will stay on top , keep you in the top 6 to 8, which Sydney has to do to keep its fans , we have 2 more clubs bleeding players now.
Recruiters and observers for each club, have to be at the top of their game, because we are diluted , nothing is guaranteed now days.

Sydney really have miles more at stake , the Dogs have history waiting for them, and will stay around , for a while, but if they lose, same thing, Fremantle sitting up there 2013 looking like kings, and failure has seen them drop off their one chance and fall into bad form and also , I think they never ever worked hard enough at the trade table , and Ross Lyons coaching really is an unknown at the moment , Sydney or Dogs could easily do a Fremantle trick this year , lose and fade away!

Like to see the Dogs up though.

 

[Costanza_]

Agree that we need to win to erase that horrid day in 2014. However this is far from our last shot at it. For the first time in many years we have a pretty young best 22.

Heeney, Mills, Papley, Aliir, Jones, Naismith, Hewett all have improvement in them. Hannebery, Parker, Mitchell (although he may leave), Rohan, Rampe are all in the prime of their career and have many years left. Franklin, Kennedy, Tippett have at least a few years of good football ahead of them.

Grundy is getting on but has had a brilliant year. McVeigh probably nearing the end as well. But them aside I reckon we are pretty well set for the next 2-3 years.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Yeah can't argue with that, good thread over all because I totally agree the core of players in our team need to win a flag or two simply because they are so good

They've won one already , played in two up to this week and hitting another chance, this week. Maybe they'll be the one that is past it.How ever good they are, I 'd be thinking about how the Dogs handled GWS and how Sydney did, interesting it will be.

I think the pressure is really on the Dogs for that reason. Sure we'll get potted as having missed an opportunity and people will go on about how the Buddy deal ruined us but we have 5 GF appearances in the past 11 years with 2 and potentially 3 flags out of that. That's not so shabby.

It certainly isn't shabby, but Sydney are Hawthorn vintage too, maybe even a couple of years longer and older in the top of the ladder game, 2005 win , lost 2006, wandered around and won 2012, then one more loss 2014 , now this year up again, against the guard changers, Footscray!

I have a feeling they may get steam rolled .

They haven't had an easy finals, Geelong game ended in the first quarter, very impressive , maybe that was their Swan song!

Any way I picked Geelong to win, Friday, and take the flag , so how much do I know???

 

[SterlingArcher]

I think it's a reasonable suggestion.

While I think the Swans will be top 4 for a few more years yet, especially with a midfield coming up of Hannebery, Parker, Mills and Heeney, if they can't snag a flag this year then I'd question their flag credentials in the coming years.

Again, top 4 candidates, but this is an excellent chance to get a flag, especially considering the strong KPP advantage I believe the Swans have over the Dogs.

 

[kickthething]

Its a grand final, both sides have a flag at stake...simple as that.

 

[ThePersianRug]

But also in response to OP footscray haven't turned things around in a short time, it's been 50 odd years between grand final appearances, I'd say their well overdue

We did it during a season and yet we have more to loose and older players. Go figure.

 

[Jtree]

What's even more is that I share a similar opinion on Geelong! I genuinely think all three clubs should be nothing but admired for the way they have gone about it recently.

You've gone too far mate... Pull you head in!

 

[Heaps of fun]

Don't see it this way at all. Their best mids are still in their prime. Heeney and Mills will both be stars and their academy props them up indefinitely for some godforsaken reason. Aliir and Rampe both coming into their prime. Not to mention they'll still squeeze a lot of good footy out of Tippett and Franklin perhaps the best tall forward combo in the league. Both will be contending with GWS for the next few years IMO. The top of the ladder side always has "more to lose" but I think that notion really flies out the window once you make the GF. Whoever wants it takes it and to the victor the spoils.

 

[ashep]

It's 1 v 7 and whilst we're a young side, we've also got the most decorated midfield in the comp and a bloke named Buddy Franklin.

A loss would be the biggest choke in the last 2 decades and would be an unmitigated disaster for the players who were there in 2014.

Thankfully it's not going to happen.

 

[JackFlash]

The pressure is definitely all on Sydney. This is a bonus appearance for the Bulldogs, they will have another two or three goes at it before they can't afford to keep everybody. The Swans know GWS and the Dogs will prevent them winning again for a while, maybe even the Saints or Dees might have a say? The Swans will hang around thereabouts, but they won't see GF action for sometime after this year. Wouldn't surprise me if the Dogs play GWS in the next two Grand Finals.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

It's 1 v 7 and whilst we're a young side, we've also got the most decorated midfield in the comp and a bloke named Buddy Franklin.

A loss would be the biggest choke in the last 2 decades and would be an unmitigated disaster for the players who were there in 2014.

Thankfully it's not going to happen.

I think thats absolute bulldust - i think it it a 50/50 game

If you look at the 2 clubs form in the finals alone ( and you could use the precedent of 2008 - where Hawthorn had the best finals form ) - the Bulldogs have had 3 1st class wins - annihilated W/Coast - gave Hawthorn a start - then put a big gap on them - and beat GWS where quite a few sides would have buckled

The Swans - in the 1st week got beat by what 5 goals by GWS - outplayed in the 2nd half . They beat Adelaide - but if the warning bells didnt go off in the 3rd qtr then im a bad judge .Then in the 3rd week they flogged a pathetic Geelong ( who also lost to Saints/Pies and Blues - and were 35 points behind Richmond at 3qtr time_. Idont know if beating Geelong counts for that much

I think if both teams play to the level they have played in the past 3 weeks then i think the Bulldogs will win - because their finals form has been more impressive

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

The pressure is definitely all on Sydney. This is a bonus appearance for the Bulldogs, they will have another two or three goes at it before they can't afford to keep everybody. The Swans know GWS and the Dogs will prevent them winning again for a while, maybe even the Saints or Dees might have a say? The Swans will hang around thereabouts, but they won't see GF action for sometime after this year. Wouldn't surprise me if the Dogs play GWS in the next two Grand Finals.

We've got all these amazing young players on our list, pretty much everyone but Tom Mitchell has re-signed for the next few years, why on earth would you be saying that?

 

[kickthething]

It's 1 v 7 and whilst we're a young side, we've also got the most decorated midfield in the comp and a bloke named Buddy Franklin.

A loss would be the biggest choke in the last 2 decades and would be an unmitigated disaster for the players who were there in 2014.

Thankfully it's not going to happen.

1 v 7 this year is a smokescreen given the H and A was pretty close.

 

[JackFlash]

We've got all these amazing young players on our list, pretty much everyone but Tom Mitchell has re-signed for the next few years, why on earth would you be saying that?

Why? Because two teams The Bulldogs and the "short people" will be better over the next two or three years...the Swans won't get a look in after this season. Something drastically would have to go wrong with GWS or the Dogs for them both not to dominate the next three seasons.

 

[Rotayjay]

Sydney are like kikuyu grass. Once it's established on the lawn/in the eight, it's impossible to eradicate/impossible for them to slide down the ladder, because of the root structure/academies giving them a constant stream of top talent.

 

[Jase Cutler]

Why? Because two teams The Bulldogs and the "short people" will be better over the next two or three years...the Swans won't get a look in after this season. Something drastically would have to go wrong with GWS or the Dogs for them both not to dominate the next three seasons.

You like to speak in absolutes. I like your confidence and conviction.

If only some of that was shared among the Geelong team last week

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Why? Because two teams The Bulldogs and the "short people" will be better over the next two or three years...the Swans won't get a look in after this season. Something drastically would have to go wrong with GWS or the Dogs for them both not to dominate the next three seasons.

So can you please tell me who won the US presidential election?

Seriously, with our list, barring injury, we too have acres of upside. GWS and Dogs clearly do, but why would you ignore ours?

With so many senior players retiring last year, including a once-in-a-generation player in Goodes, this year was going to be the start of our rebuild.

OUR fairytale, which has understandably been swamped by the Dogs', is that our crop of new boys have already shown themselves ready for anything, and now here we are in a GF. Don't just take it from me, read the opinions of dozens of neutrals saying the same thing over recent days.

A lot of our guys running out on Saturday have fewer than 25 games under their belt (Harry Marsh, XR, Naismith and AA have 7, 11, 12 and 13 respectively).

Nankervis 12, Papley and Mills, both guns, have 19 and 21. Hewett 23.

And then there's Heeney on 37.

Make the case that any of those players don't have what it takes for a long and shining senior career.

Players like Rohan (78), Parker, Hannebery, Kennedy, Jack, are just coming into, or are in, the prime of their careers. See any likely retirements in that group any day soon?

A guy called Buddy Franklin has just had one of his best seasons yet, and he's still only on 246 games.

Grundy (212) likewise.

We'll lose Ted Richards and McGlynn at the end of the year. We have ready-made replacements in Aliir and Papley.

Only other one getting anywhere near there is McVeigh.

Nothing is guaranteed, of course, injuries can come out of nowhere, and we all know GFs are incredibly hard to get to and win, but do please let us know your reasoning for why you say "the Swans won't get a look in after this season", or admit that what you meant was "I hope that the Swans don't get a look in after this season".