More wage theft, this time it's Coles at maybe $20m... and Woolies at $300m+

[HardcoreGeelongFan]

View attachment 825918

Lol you can't tax them they own politics. This has happened so many times over the course of human history in x amount years time a lynch mob will drag them out their homes and burn them at the stake.

 

[Sainteric]

I think Nathan32 you've got the wrong end of the stick.

Time cards are always kept at the workplace, demarcation disputes are practically a thing of the past. If you are an accredited fork lift driver and are asked to work on a register and to stock shelves then you must be paid at the highest rate, ie. a forklift driver's wage at all times but herein lies the problem. The AWA/"work choices" disgrace has forever changed the workplace environment and working people don't know what they are and aren't entitled to.

Award wages have been diluted to take into account "negotiated" workplace agreements, for example: yesterday we read in the Adelaide Advertiser that the On The Run organisation (Peregrine), have been busted for underpaying it's workers big time. Peregrine are the largest private employers in SA employing over 3,500 people and they say that they are "not appealing the tribunal's decision that it had an obligation to pay employees for work done prior to rostered start times" but the companies "policy" was for employees to arrive 10 minutes before start time, not fifteen as claimed by the aggrieved employee, to complete handover duties. In other words, this mob wants workers to rock up and do work for ten minutes before they "start" and now they've been busted, they are willing to pay the ten minutes but not fifteen.

If you knew anything about the way that On The Run operates, you would know that they are an absolute nightmare to work for and that they treat their employees like dirt. They have "managers" who are asked to fly to stores all over Australia, away from their family and loved ones and without having the right to say "no" and at short notice and they are paid exactly the same as they would be if they were working in Adelaide doing their "normal" hours even though they are expected to complete their tasks interstate in a set period of time which ALWAYS means, that they are working 12 - 14 hours per day to try and complete it.

Today we read in the same newspaper that two migrant waitresses were paid $12 an hour and the managers of the restaurant that "employed" them, tried to stop inspectors viewing timesheets and wage records.

The problem Australian workers face is that they don't know the rules anymore because basically, there aren't any! Where we once had awards and people were compensated for working outside of normal working hours, where a meal break meant that you stopped work and went for a meal break, not trying to get a couple of bites of the sandwich in whilst still on duty, the rules now are basically just what the proprietor/boss says they are and if you don't like it, there's the door!

We keep hearing form the employer groups and their political arm, the Liberal Party, how keeping wages low and dispensing with penalty rates is good for business and that tax cuts are wonderful yet where is the evidence? Australia is going down the gurgler at the rate of knots, tax cuts have destroyed the services that we all rely on and if we were to believe that low/no wage growth is good for business because "we can employ more people", then how come that for the last 7 or 8 years wage growth has plummeted and the economy hasn't boomed? That's what we were told; low wages and tax cuts was going to achieve a top economy but here we are in what is in reality, a recession.

Scheming, lying, greedy business groups and their political arm, the Liberal Party, tell us that they are the best for the working person and drongos believe them.

Woolworths and coles do this as well they don't pay 6 minutes before and after rostered hours so you can begin/ leave from where the biometrics scanner is and where your place of work is. These conditions are in the EBA. If at some later date this is challenged then their will be back pay, but it's hardly wage theft.

EBAs were introduced by Keating and yes they are an issue as the union's saw it as a way to increase their money flow. Yes the workers get more than the award generally but most wage growth has gone into allowances, complexity has increased and unions / employers in my experience can't interpret or maintain these agreements.

It could be easily fixed imo but union relevance would decrease so they wouldn't support it.

 

[Scotland]

The problem Australian workers face is that they don't know the rules anymore because basically, there aren't any! Where we once had awards and people were compensated for working outside of normal working hours, where a meal break meant that you stopped work and went for a meal break, not trying to get a couple of bites of the sandwich in whilst still on duty, the rules now are basically just what the proprietor/boss says they are and if you don't like it, there's the door!

If there are no rules then why are companies in the poop for 'wage theft'?

 

[Chief]

The problem Australian workers face is that they don't know the rules anymore because basically, there aren't any!

I don't know about that, but it seems almost impossible for an individual employee to enforce their rights without losing their job.

Once you allow the "could you get back early from lunch we are running late on that job" you start to get managers and employers regularly taking that time off of employees and reducing their workforce accordingly.

 

[Scotland]

Two way street. If you want to work 8.00 to 5.00 with 15 minutes off from 9.45 to 10.00 and one hour off from 12.00 to 1.00 that's OK, but don't expect to 'just come in at 930 Tuesday, got a school assembly' and 'just duck to the bank, will go at 11 so it's quieter' etc.

 

[Chief]

Two way street. If you want to work 8.00 to 5.00 with 15 minutes off from 9.45 to 10.00 and one hour off from 12.00 to 1.00 that's OK, but don't expect to 'just come in at 930 Tuesday, got a school assembly' and 'just duck to the bank, will go at 11 so it's quieter' etc.

And that is down to management. If you negotiate to have lunch early some days, fine. If management pressures an employee to forego their breaks, that's unfair and should be corrected. The employee is the one with less power in that situation.

 

[Scotland]

And that is down to management. If you negotiate to have lunch early some days, fine. If management pressures an employee to forego their breaks, that's unfair and should be corrected. The employee is the one with less power in that situation.

It's a give and take relationship. Some things are time critical, some aren't. If I'm writing a report then it makes little difference if I do half it before lunch and half after or all of it after lunch so long as it's done. If you are manning a reception desk then it's pretty important you are there when the business is actually open. I used to do shelf stacking shifts as a uni student starting at 4, 5, 6 depending on what I could manage and we'd finish anywhere from 8 to 10pm. Some days you'd have enough work to keep people busy for maybe 3.5-4 hours, some days it was 4.5-5. How rigid do people want things to be?

Every job I've ever had there have been people who take the piss and people who are walked over. And there are people who are efficient with their time and people who aren't. And there are people who make a big song and dance about things and people who won't say boo. All these categories overlap.

 

[Chief]

If you are manning a reception desk then it's pretty important you are there when the business is actually open.

But if you hire someone to man a reception desk, it's up to you to cover the times when they are on their break, not expect them to work 8 hours straight.

 

[Scotland]

But if you hire someone to man a reception desk, it's up to you to cover the times when they are on their break, not expect them to work 8 hours straight.

Great, that answers a question I didn't pose.

 

[Chief]

Great, that answers a question I didn't pose.

It looked like you did:
"If you are manning a reception desk then it's pretty important you are there when the business is actually open. "

Not sure what you meant? Did you mean at the start of the business day?

 

[Scotland]

I mean it's an example of a role that is time specific. No point complaining if you can't move your hours back to work 6am-3pm to get off early or take chunks of time off during the day. There is no need for a receptionist at 6am. If you are always there early and always staying back and always cutting short breaks then that is ****ed.

If you work in a cafe and it's a big deal if you duck out to the bank at 10.30am when there are no customers then the boss is a dick, but if you want to go during the morning coffee/lunchtime rush then you are being selfish. Etc. A lot of people want the pendulum to permanently swing in their favour.

 

[Nathan32]

I think Nathan32 you've got the wrong end of the stick.

Time cards are always kept at the workplace, demarcation disputes are practically a thing of the past. If you are an accredited fork lift driver and are asked to work on a register and to stock shelves then you must be paid at the highest rate, ie. a forklift driver's wage at all times but herein lies the problem. The AWA/"work choices" disgrace has forever changed the workplace environment and working people don't know what they are and aren't entitled to.

Award wages have been diluted to take into account "negotiated" workplace agreements, for example: yesterday we read in the Adelaide Advertiser that the On The Run organisation (Peregrine), have been busted for underpaying it's workers big time. Peregrine are the largest private employers in SA employing over 3,500 people and they say that they are "not appealing the tribunal's decision that it had an obligation to pay employees for work done prior to rostered start times" but the companies "policy" was for employees to arrive 10 minutes before start time, not fifteen as claimed by the aggrieved employee, to complete handover duties. In other words, this mob wants workers to rock up and do work for ten minutes before they "start" and now they've been busted, they are willing to pay the ten minutes but not fifteen.

If you knew anything about the way that On The Run operates, you would know that they are an absolute nightmare to work for and that they treat their employees like dirt. They have "managers" who are asked to fly to stores all over Australia, away from their family and loved ones and without having the right to say "no" and at short notice and they are paid exactly the same as they would be if they were working in Adelaide doing their "normal" hours even though they are expected to complete their tasks interstate in a set period of time which ALWAYS means, that they are working 12 - 14 hours per day to try and complete it.

Today we read in the same newspaper that two migrant waitresses were paid $12 an hour and the managers of the restaurant that "employed" them, tried to stop inspectors viewing timesheets and wage records.

The problem Australian workers face is that they don't know the rules anymore because basically, there aren't any! Where we once had awards and people were compensated for working outside of normal working hours, where a meal break meant that you stopped work and went for a meal break, not trying to get a couple of bites of the sandwich in whilst still on duty, the rules now are basically just what the proprietor/boss says they are and if you don't like it, there's the door!

We keep hearing form the employer groups and their political arm, the Liberal Party, how keeping wages low and dispensing with penalty rates is good for business and that tax cuts are wonderful yet where is the evidence? Australia is going down the gurgler at the rate of knots, tax cuts have destroyed the services that we all rely on and if we were to believe that low/no wage growth is good for business because "we can employ more people", then how come that for the last 7 or 8 years wage growth has plummeted and the economy hasn't boomed? That's what we were told; low wages and tax cuts was going to achieve a top economy but here we are in what is in reality, a recession.

Scheming, lying, greedy business groups and their political arm, the Liberal Party, tell us that they are the best for the working person and drongos believe them.

There is no requirement for time cards to be kept at work, it may be the policy for some companies but it's not a workplace law. For example go into a Costco store and you will see most staff with a name badge that they wear to and from work which is also their time card.

A retail worker is only entitled to be paid at a higher rate when working at a lower classification if the higher classification is their ordinary duties. For example a worker hired as a forklift driver drives for the first 6 hours of his shift 5 days a week spends his last 2 hours stocking shelves. All hours would be paid as a forklift driver

However a worker who's ordinary duties are at a lower classification they are only entitled to be paid at a higher classification when they are working for more than 30 minutes in that classification and it's only for that time worked. For example a worker hired as a stocker who fills in when the regular forklift driver is off only gets paid at a higher rate when he drives.

 

[Chief]

I mean it's an example of a role that is time specific. No point complaining if you can't move your hours back to work 6am-3pm to get off early or take chunks of time off during the day. There is no need for a receptionist at 6am. If you are always there early and always staying back and always cutting short breaks then that is f’ed.

If you work in a cafe and it's a big deal if you duck out to the bank at 10.30am when there are no customers then the boss is a dick, but if you want to go during the morning coffee/lunchtime rush then you are being selfish. Etc. A lot of people want the pendulum to permanently swing in their favour.

I am sure some people will take advantage of a boss who lets them set their own hours.

 

[Scotland]

I am sure some people will take advantage of a boss who lets them set their own hours.

Of course they do. Employers and employees take advantage of each other all the time in many ways.

 

[Chief]

I mean it's an example of a role that is time specific. No point complaining if you can't move your hours back to work 6am-3pm to get off early or take chunks of time off during the day. There is no need for a receptionist at 6am.

Often they get the mail and the like so most places I have worked, they get in early.

 

[Millky95]

I worked at a Woolies for nearly 7 years. You were allowed to clock 6 minutes either side of your start and finish time. If you clocked in 6 before and clocked 6 after you didn't see those 12 minutes extra pay. This also worked the other way when people would clock at 0906 and out at 1754 every day and work 1 hour less total for the week and get paid for it. Also if you clocked in or out 7 minutes early or late, you'd either get written up without a valid reason or they would type PTR on the correction and you'd get paid "per the roster". Even if you had to do an extra 30 minutes because you were the only person left in the deli, got smashed with customers and had to delay your nightly clean. You more often than not didn't get paid for it. Didn't do the clean and left on time? Manager would get pissy at you and if you were an older casual you like me, you'd find your shifts going to the 15-17 year olds (which upper management just saw as $7-8 an hour cheaper) with no work ethic that the manager would bitch about not getting enough work done. Absolutely awful place to work.

Industry I am in now... sucks. I work casually at 4 jobs because PT and FT work is hard to get let alone in the better adjacent industry. The award is a joke. I did get offered a FT role once. The award had it as a level 6 of 8 or 9 and I wouldn't have earned enough without over time to hit the threshold to pay off the uni degree. Another company pays "above the award rate" but refuses to pay penalties other than public holidays. So suck s**t for the poor guys doing 0000-1200. Rest are all contractor based and have to try to keep rates low to even get work

 

[Northalives]

I worked at a Woolies for nearly 7 years. You were allowed to clock 6 minutes either side of your start and finish time. If you clocked in 6 before and clocked 6 after you didn't see those 12 minutes extra pay. This also worked the other way when people would clock at 0906 and out at 1754 every day and work 1 hour less total for the week and get paid for it. Also if you clocked in or out 7 minutes early or late, you'd either get written up without a valid reason or they would type PTR on the correction and you'd get paid "per the roster". Even if you had to do an extra 30 minutes because you were the only person left in the deli, got smashed with customers and had to delay your nightly clean. You more often than not didn't get paid for it. Didn't do the clean and left on time? Manager would get pissy at you and if you were an older casual you like me, you'd find your shifts going to the 15-17 year olds (which upper management just saw as $7-8 an hour cheaper) with no work ethic that the manager would bitch about not getting enough work done. Absolutely awful place to work.

Industry I am in now... sucks. I work casually at 4 jobs because PT and FT work is hard to get let alone in the better adjacent industry. The award is a joke. I did get offered a FT role once. The award had it as a level 6 of 8 or 9 and I wouldn't have earned enough without over time to hit the threshold to pay off the uni degree. Another company pays "above the award rate" but refuses to pay penalties other than public holidays. So suck s**t for the poor guys doing 0000-1200. Rest are all contractor based and have to try to keep rates low to even get work

The working person has been/is being shafted big time and yet there are still people that reckon an individual worker can stand up and "negotiate" their wages and conditions all by themselves and that all employers are benevolent souls.

 

[Scotland]

I started working when at 16 and got paid about $7/hr. By the time I was old enough for a 100% wage (19/20?) it had gone up to $20/hr. Same person doing the same stuff for about 3 times as much. Every year there were new batches of 15/16 year olds, and every year I maintained a solid 15-20 hours a week if I wanted it. The whole 'they'll just stop giving you hours when you aren't cheap' thing seemed a bit overblown. Wasn't because I was some superstar at opening cardboard boxes or moving apples or whatever, there were a few of us in the same boat. If you could work outside business hours and weren't a complete numpty they wanted you. Seems like saving pennies to lose pounds to me. The cold drinks in the fridge at the front of the shop make something like $1-2 profit per sale and you sell cases of them each week. You sell hundreds of bottles of milk a day (not at a massive margin). No point paying someone $10/hr instead of $20 to be too lazy/thick to fill the empty shelves of this stuff.

Nowadays whenever I go to Coles/Woolies all the people filling the shelves seem to be older than I was when I did it. I also worked with no Indians or Indian-Australians 15 years ago where now every store I've been into has Indian (well, brown, if someone wants to cry "Racist!") staff. Don't know if it's shady dealings or good old fashioned immigrants taking all the "good" jerbs, but I see fewer teenagers working there.

 

[Scotland]

The working person has been/is being shafted big time and yet there are still people that reckon an individual worker can stand up and "negotiate" their wages and conditions all by themselves

They can and do. At Coles in a low position? No way.

\\and that all employers are benevolent souls.

Whoever thinks that is a fool.

 

[Millky95]

The working person has been/is being shafted big time and yet there are still people that reckon an individual worker can stand up and "negotiate" their wages and conditions all by themselves and that all employers are benevolent souls.

I worked a conference the other week and during a presentation they had a graph that showed inflation, cost of living vs wage growth and were like "because wages haven't gone up, we can use this to convince people to buy a more expensive item because it'll last save .3c per use on electricity and they'll save money long term".

I started working when at 16 and got paid about $7/hr. By the time I was old enough for a 100% wage (19/20?) it had gone up to $20/hr. Same person doing the same stuff for about 3 times as much. Every year there were new batches of 15/16 year olds, and every year I maintained a solid 15-20 hours a week if I wanted it. The whole 'they'll just stop giving you hours when you aren't cheap' thing seemed a bit overblown. Wasn't because I was some superstar at opening cardboard boxes or moving apples or whatever, there were a few of us in the same boat. If you could work outside business hours and weren't a complete numpty they wanted you. Seems like saving pennies to lose pounds to me. The cold drinks in the fridge at the front of the shop make something like $1-2 profit per sale and you sell cases of them each week. You sell hundreds of bottles of milk a day (not at a massive margin). No point paying someone $10/hr instead of $20 to be too lazy/thick to fill the empty shelves of this stuff.

Nowadays whenever I go to Coles/Woolies all the people filling the shelves seem to be older than I was when I did it. I also worked with no Indians or Indian-Australians 15 years ago where now every store I've been into has Indian (well, brown, if someone wants to cry "Racist!") staff. Don't know if it's shady dealings or good old fashioned immigrants taking all the "good" jerbs, but I see fewer teenagers working there.

Consider yourself lucky. I was outwardly told by my produce manager when I asked her why I hadn't had any shifts in 2 weeks and she said "Store Manager made me take the shifts off you to these guys because they are cheaper". Eventually one of the FTs got sick and I got shifts and my manager could tell her boss she needed me not those guys cause they were the height of lazy and terrible (without rushing you could do 2-3 boxes of stock to their one) and I got my shifts back. Also when I was younger and the cheap 16 year old I learned as many departments as I could to get work in those areas when I could but it's not overblown. At least in my experiences anyway.

 

[Scotland]

Sounds like we had similar experiences. Checkout staff were always the youngest and they cycled through the most of them. Anyone young and useful was there all the time. Having cheap staff that are useless isn't beneficial to any business, especially stores turning over hundreds of thousands of dollars on a weekly basis. If it's a small business then it's a bit different, but your average supermarket makes enough money from Coca Cola products alone to pay a bunch of adult staff. I know the fruit and veg section changed from a full time boss and a bunch of kids doing afternoon/weekend shifts to a couple of full timers balancing it between them over the course of a week because it was just easier that way. There would have been some definite underpayment going on at that time with full timers starting early/staying back to fix what the younglings didn't do properly.

 

[Millky95]

Sounds like we had similar experiences. Checkout staff were always the youngest and they cycled through the most of them. Anyone young and useful was there all the time. Having cheap staff that are useless isn't beneficial to any business, especially stores turning over hundreds of thousands of dollars on a weekly basis. If it's a small business then it's a bit different, but your average supermarket makes enough money from Coca Cola products alone to pay a bunch of adult staff. I know the fruit and veg section changed from a full time boss and a bunch of kids doing afternoon/weekend shifts to a couple of full timers balancing it between them over the course of a week because it was just easier that way. There would have been some definite underpayment going on at that time with full timers starting early/staying back to fix what the younglings didn't do properly.

The store didn't want casuals if they could avoid it. The weekly 4 hour deep clean shift? Gone. 5 people on the busiest trading day? Down to 4 and one of those being a full day down to a half day. Full timers afternoon shift pushed back from being a 10-7 or 9-6 to help in the back end of the morning to prep the store for the stock delivery at 1-2pm to being a 12-9 on some days to cut the casual shift from 4-8pm to close up. When I was half promoted in the back end of the time there we would be told to cut back more hours if we could, throw out less rubbish, be less strict about what stock you put on show even if it is damaged in some way. Have sections half empty even though the stock is selling and you'll have to put out another box in an hour instead of 2 and get more things done because of presentation.

And the comments from the customers? Was always "the shelves are empty and I can never find anyone to help me" whilst the person at front end would be asking for more staff to come help serve customers.

It was like they were so focused on trying not to lose money, they forgot how to make money.

 

[Sainteric]

Those capitaist pigs down at world vision have underpaid their staff 10 million

 

[Chief]

Those capitaist pigs down at world vision have underpaid their staff 10 million

Link? Anything?

 

[ferball]

Mate a lot of people on minimum wage are not the sharpest tools in the shed - doesnt mean they should be ripped off but.

heres ghe thing - if businesses were fined 5 times what they should have paid - the people who havnt got rocks in their heads - ie management and payroll - would have a bit of incentive to not cheat.

its to me the biggest problem in capitalism atm is that they have made damn sure there is no consequences for their actions.

If you or me defraud someone - we are at risk of going to jail.

they risk having to pay what they owe. Great deterrent that eh?

polluters face paltry fines - what about if you pollute an artesian basin by fraccing (as happened recently) you lose the right to operate that mine and are fined millions instead of the $1500 santos were fined for contaminating the pilliga aquifer!!

Its actually encouraging risk taking and fraud as there is no proper penalty for taking wild risks chasing extra bucks!!

And it all comes back to the hold big business holds over our government.

There's more to that Santos thing. They may not have caused it, just brought the liability. (Not a fan of CSG either. I know people who organised the Bentley blockade, was involved in the transport of food and water to it and then fought fires with the guy who owned the land or whose kid owned the land, while we defended the homes of many blockaders and a few organisers. I'll still resist CSG projects whenever they're in these catchments but I've got some sympathy and a lot of respect for the guy i fought those fires with.)


I agree with your principle tho.

its to me the biggest problem in capitalism atm is that they have made damn sure there is no consequences for their actions.

This is exactly the problem. So much for "personal responsibility."