List Mgmt. Morning, Joe! (was The Daniher (Probably Mega-)thread)
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Nunez
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Bonus points for kicking Carlisle in the back.
Kicked the goal too.
- Apr 3, 2017
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golly not sure what to think of this 
. I don't generally follow the lead-up to trades and all that, so I think i'll just sit out and enjoy this final series, and if we succeed in the trade that will be awesome
certainly enjoyed watching Joe in the past, also his personality and game play I think could flourish under Fages. (or be strong, dunno if he will exceed his past... certainly some exciting times ahead regardless of what happens)
. I don't generally follow the lead-up to trades and all that, so I think i'll just sit out and enjoy this final series, and if we succeed in the trade that will be awesome certainly enjoyed watching Joe in the past, also his personality and game play I think could flourish under Fages. (or be strong, dunno if he will exceed his past... certainly some exciting times ahead regardless of what happens)
Sorry, but still very sceptical about the worth of Daniher to the Lions
Hoping I'm as wrong about this as I was about MRobbo when we threw him a lifeline
Hoping I'm as wrong about this as I was about MRobbo when we threw him a lifeline
dlanod
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Frawley isn't any kind of precedent and hasn't been for years - the salary cap has increased significantly since then, as has the salaries of the top players. Case in point, the same year as Motlop signed Tom Rockliff signed for "approximately" $700,000 per year and only generated an end of first round pick.
I think the 650K could potentially trigger band 1 compensation when you take reduced salaries + COVID into account.
Otherwise, Brisbane may agree to offset some of the incentives and include it into the base salary (maybe front-ended) to trigger band 1 compensation to avoid a trade. May only be a 50K increase.
Getting Daniher + keeping 18 and 19 is pretty good.
Think there is almost no valid precedent for working out what compo will be generated as the AFL makes it up as they go. The fact that the Lions gave Rockliff an offer they knew would likely see him leave could have had as much to do with it as anything
Pns_blister
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- Oct 16, 2017
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I've noticed that Joe Daniher has deleted his Instagram (or temporarily removed). I wonder whether that was pre-emptive or reactive to the (presumed) barrage of salty Essendon supporters sliding into his DMs. Either way, a smart move on his behalf.
I don't think you people understand what you're in for.
As far as I can tell, the problem with Daniher's groin have been vastly overstated and I see virtually no reason he will not return to his 2017 form as as soon as he is happy - this is at the heart of the problem (and why he is hell bent on getting out of Victoria). Obviously, I have no way of knowing for sure but it is very unlikely his OP has accounted for more than half of the games he has missed (and most of it was 2018 when he exited that season with a noticeable limp in his gait).
There is so much about this situation hiding in plain sight. The fact that he even asked for a trade in the first place, for example.
The thing that stands out to me most is his physical condition on return. He has returned on 3 occasions:
1. he came from nowhere to play pre-season against Carlton in 2019;
2. he came from nowhere to play against North on Good Friday in 2019 and backed up on a short break to play ANZAC day and then played another game (before a rest and his last game for 2019); and
3. he finally decided to play this year he backed up with off a short break again.
On each occasions he has returned he has looked as athletic and as powerful as he ever has. He's taken a screamer in each match, he's put on size and otherwise looked the same as he did when at his best. There has been no apparent impairment of his movement, other than noticeably blowing up on a few occasions because he was out of gas. He even seemed to add distance to his kick and last year he was kicking the ball with a fade to counter his massive draw (he seemed to be able to do it intentionally based on which side he took the shot).
Contrast this with James Stewart. Literally the same age, born on the same day as Joe, and a seriously good athlete. It took him about 6 weeks into a return before he looked like he belonged on an AFL field as opposed to the operating table (2 AFL games before the game against Gold Coast and 3 to 4 scratch matches before that). He was still moving on train tracks until his last few games when he looked a bit more agile. He played 10 games this year and gained a little each time.
When OP used to strike it reduced a player like Luke Ball from a dynamic sprinter to a plodder.
Daniher shows no sign, whatsoever, of any diminished physical capacity. More likely than not he has been on what amounts to a sabbatical for a lot of the last 24 months. Honestly as much as I want to throttle him, I hope he gets his s**t together because he should really be the best player in the league.
As far as I can tell, the problem with Daniher's groin have been vastly overstated and I see virtually no reason he will not return to his 2017 form as as soon as he is happy - this is at the heart of the problem (and why he is hell bent on getting out of Victoria). Obviously, I have no way of knowing for sure but it is very unlikely his OP has accounted for more than half of the games he has missed (and most of it was 2018 when he exited that season with a noticeable limp in his gait).
There is so much about this situation hiding in plain sight. The fact that he even asked for a trade in the first place, for example.
The thing that stands out to me most is his physical condition on return. He has returned on 3 occasions:
1. he came from nowhere to play pre-season against Carlton in 2019;
2. he came from nowhere to play against North on Good Friday in 2019 and backed up on a short break to play ANZAC day and then played another game (before a rest and his last game for 2019); and
3. he finally decided to play this year he backed up with off a short break again.
On each occasions he has returned he has looked as athletic and as powerful as he ever has. He's taken a screamer in each match, he's put on size and otherwise looked the same as he did when at his best. There has been no apparent impairment of his movement, other than noticeably blowing up on a few occasions because he was out of gas. He even seemed to add distance to his kick and last year he was kicking the ball with a fade to counter his massive draw (he seemed to be able to do it intentionally based on which side he took the shot).
Contrast this with James Stewart. Literally the same age, born on the same day as Joe, and a seriously good athlete. It took him about 6 weeks into a return before he looked like he belonged on an AFL field as opposed to the operating table (2 AFL games before the game against Gold Coast and 3 to 4 scratch matches before that). He was still moving on train tracks until his last few games when he looked a bit more agile. He played 10 games this year and gained a little each time.
When OP used to strike it reduced a player like Luke Ball from a dynamic sprinter to a plodder.
Daniher shows no sign, whatsoever, of any diminished physical capacity. More likely than not he has been on what amounts to a sabbatical for a lot of the last 24 months. Honestly as much as I want to throttle him, I hope he gets his s**t together because he should really be the best player in the league.
X AE A12
universalmagnetic
- Jun 13, 2020
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The Lion in me says thank you for this insight, much appreciated
The trader in me says do you have any used cars for sale?
The Lion in me says thank you for this insight, much appreciated
The trader in me says do you have any used cars for sale?
Haha. Naah, sold out.
In any event, my ability to convince you of his potential value is not going to have any bearing on what deal gets done.
so what do you think his main problems are then? Is it he's not that interested in playing footy at all? If thats the case, no amount of our money is going to fix that.
Why Brisbane is a better fit for Joe Daniher than the Swans
If the star Bomber is to leave Essendon, he may be better off moving further north than the city and club he wanted to go to during last year's trading period.
Well done Jake Niall for speculating on this back in February.
- Aug 10, 2005
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Why Brisbane is a better fit for Joe Daniher than the Swans
If the star Bomber is to leave Essendon, he may be better off moving further north than the city and club he wanted to go to during last year's trading period.www.theage.com.au
Well done Jake Niall for speculating on this back in February.
Jake Niall = Billy Puller
Gadzorks
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- Oct 23, 2015
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Why Brisbane is a better fit for Joe Daniher than the Swans
If the star Bomber is to leave Essendon, he may be better off moving further north than the city and club he wanted to go to during last year's trading period.
Well done Jake Niall for speculating on this back in February.
I like that our head of medical peter blanch was in a similar role at Essendon when Daniher had his best year.
Means we should have an understanding of his body and be more sure of our ability to help him overcome his injury issues. Daniher will also have more confidence in the medical department, which makes him compliant with their instructions.
I think he probably takes a country kid's attitude toward the spotlight, for a start.
He's always been the great white hope at Essendon, and that pressure has really only been heaped on as a result of the drugs saga. The viability of our post-2017 premiership tilt was essentially Daniher (it certainly wasn't because our midfield has ever looked the part for example).
Also, the word is he does not take feedback. We've let our senior players do their own thing for 15 years and trying to get them to play team footy has been impossible so he's probably at odds with the expectations on him to play a certain role.
Throw in a lack of mental strength / a bit of immaturity and I just don't think he can hack the pressure. That's not to mention that the club has been running itself into the ground, making all manner of questionable decisions, and that the bubble has now well and truly burst (think about how poorly we started last year - it's been a slow moving train wreck).
It's a combination of a lot of factors but mainly he's running away from pressure. Look at that stupid around the body snapping he was doing this year not even thinking through the snap. He can't even face lining up for a shot on goal properly. We coddle our senior player so, with the benefit of hindsight, we're never going to be able to bring him back. A swift Fagan boot in the arse the first time he does an un-structured snap at training will work wonders. Fagan seems more old fashioned than not in terms of his attitude, he'll be perfect but I don't think it will be necessary. Daniher has his fresh start and I think he'll flourish.
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I can definitely see a similar situation to the Rayner snap at goal happening with Daniher, especially if he's missed a few easy ones.
We pride ourselves on having leaders in our group, both formally in our leadership group but also through recruiting players that have shown ability to be leaders.
We've shown we can compete without him and there's no expectation on him to come in and turn around our fortunes, and I think he'll benefit from that. He just needs to come in and play his role in the side.
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- Jul 21, 2018
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Any chance Dodoro matches our offer? If there's anyone that would pull something like that it's him!
Good analysis. Time will tell but I agree think he has wanted out for sometime and seems a bit disillusioned at Essendon. If we can get him fit and firing he could be a huge signing. But its a risk. No risk no reward I guess.
What I would like to get is your thoughts on Rutten? All the talk in the last 48 hours is he is driving change and that sounds promising, provided everybody is on board. Nothing improves a club more than one which is focussed and wired in. Thats what Fagan bought to the Lions the minute he walked in. First two seasons we only won 10 games but the second year the 5 games could have been easily 7 or 8 and everyone could see we were heading in the right direction.
My worry with Rutten is if it was his game plan they were implementing this season it looked horrid for 90% of the season. Players wanting to leave often suggests they have no confidence in the game plan - think we had this problem with Leppa.
What is Ruttens game plan ? I couldn't work it out. Bombers were superb against Collingwood and the tackling and pressure stood out that night. But most games the pressure was awful. They seem to want to start their attack off half back with a chain of handballs which is very old style from South Australian footy. Mick Nunan was trying to get Fitzroy to do it in 96 but he never stood a chance back then.
My biggest worry for Essendon is if Rutten isn't the right man they could be wasting more years. I hope for Essendon sake he is the right appointment.
- Aug 10, 2005
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I think they might if the compensation is an end of first round pick. Can't see us offering any more than our worst first round selection or we might come up with something creative.
The Flying Belgian
Third Tall
My guess is that Essendon might want to see which, if any, established players they can shake free first. Carlton won't offer much in that sense and with our injury list we've probably got more guys on the fringes who might sense better opportunity elsewhere.
Whatever Rutten's game plan is it's a long way from the problem at this point in time.
When Hird was coach, he once said words to the effect that game plans are irrelevant if there is no pressure. I'd expand on that slightly to say that it needs to be underpinned by both a solid ball winning core and pressure without the ball. We are so bad at these aspects of the game that no plan is going to be able to cover for it, though we have tried (and had some moderate success in terms of wins and losses over the period).
We've had a bottom 4 midfield for years. We've have had no natural first touch contested ball winner / distributor since Jobe. The clearance numbers are inflated because our players are damaging in space and Bellchamber's ruck work was first rate. There are also a number of distortions in the contested possession numbers created by the category as a whole (such as a loose ball get being considered a contested possession) which mean that the stat does not tell the full picture. We're like the Wallabies have been (last time I checked about 10 years ago), on the back foot without the ability to physically dictate the way a game is played.
I tend to worry more about game plans at the top end. Last year it was evident the Lions didn't take enough from an opponent to be a threat (which is also why I wasn't surprised when we belted you), Geelong is clearly not able to adapt its plan to meet the intensity of finals. Beveridge is a pretty spectacular failure when it comes to maximising the talent at his disposal as are Cameron and Goodwin. There's not a lot of sophistication there, it's basically all or nothing at the coal face (which simply doesn't work at the very top end - Richmond and Hawthorn have 5 of the last 7 premiership barely focusing on clearances, for example).
Rutten's biggest problem stems from how realistic the club is prepared to be about the midfield. It's not evident to me how we become a forward 50 team if we can win the ball and use it under physical pressure (which we cant). It remains to be seen whether, McGrath aside, any of these players can become high quality without the ball. There are also real problems with the running capacity of the list generally. It's abysmal. I don't see many players who are capable of the high intensity running that is required to play the Richmond style (which is manic between the arcs).
Rutten will be fine as long as we commit to a complete rebuild and I assume we have because it will be required to do what he wants (which is why there now seems to be so much smoke around Merrett though its Heppell, Parish and a beaten up Smith that are probably the bigger problems). The problem will stem from trying to get a list to implement a plan it's not capable of playing. The reason I don't think this problem is unique to Rutten is that I don't think the list is capable of playing a brand of football that holds up at all (which is what the results show).
It would be extremely unusual for Essendon to concede that it's not in contention so there is absolutely a danger that the coteries start making noises and Rutten gets sacked. I just don't think it will have anything to do with his game plan.
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Lions Joe the goose Essendon.
