Discussion Most hearbreaking player departures

[Todman]

Tommy Hafey said that trading Brian Roberts to the Swans destroyed the social fabric of the Tigers.

Roberts, Jackson and Teasdale were traded for John Pitura

 

[Tigerandy63]

Geoff Raines, David Cloke & Bryan Wood all walked out of Richmond at the end of 1982 which crippled the club for decades. Cloke was captain & Raines had won 3 B&F's. Coach Francis Bourke & Graeme Richmond were pivotal in these 3 leaving.

I doubt that any other defections ever had a bigger negative impact on a club than these 3.

 

[Todman]

Geoff Raines, David Cloke & Bryan Wood all walked out of Richmond at the end of 1982 which crippled the club for decades. Cloke was captain & Raines had won 3 B&F's. Coach Francis Bourke & Graeme Richmond were pivotal in these 3 leaving.

I doubt that any other defections ever had a bigger negative impact on a club than these 3.

The Collingwood-Richmond bidding war that saw half a dozen players switch sides that screwed both clubs for years.

 

[Moody Blue]

Tommy Hafey said that trading Brian Roberts to the Swans destroyed the social fabric of the Tigers.

Roberts, Jackson and Teasdale were traded for John Pitura

Good to see learned that experience. They ended up trading the Daniher's plus the rest, for a 27 y.o Neville Fields, who played for 3 years and then finished off his career back at Essendon.

 

[Papa G]

In retrospect, Shaun Burgoyne. Didn't feel that bad at the time though.

 

[iBeng]

Justin Clarke.

Not a fan of seeing Doc and Yeo at other clubs either...And Im sure I wont enjoy seeing Rockliff at Port.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

JEZZA

 

[Moody Blue]

The Collingwood-Richmond bidding war that saw half a dozen players switch sides that screwed both clubs for years.

It effectively killed the VFL. Two traditional strong clubs nearly broke, all because they let their petty squabbles. Hawthorn for all their success in the 80's and 90's, were nearly forced to merge in 1996.

 

[sherbrook]

Tommy Hafey said that trading Brian Roberts to the Swans destroyed the social fabric of the Tigers.

Roberts, Jackson and Teasdale were traded for John Pitura

Pitura barely fired a shot for Richmond but Teasdale got a Brownlow for Swans
Apparently Graeme Richmond pushed for the Pitura deal after seeing him beat Francis Bourke one day

 

[Snake_Baker]

Personally? Carey.

 

[Mofra]

Barassi for sure.

Bulldogs sold a lot of players in the late 70s and early 80s to stay afloat - Quinlan and Templeton could have been the greatest tall forward duo in history to that point (it was pre Carey/Longmire).

Losing Griffen was horrible at the time - we had no captain, coach, CEO and we were a bottom team that looked set for a decade in the wilderness. Amazing turnaround.

 

[sthmelb_dimmies]

Duck going to the Crows was wild.

Woewodin running around in black and white was hard to get used to for a long time too.

 

[andrew coombs]

I think the sticking point was that they wanted to make it performance-based and it rested on number of games played, etc... with a really low base salary. Not ideal for someone whose body had endured so much.

It was an undignified and disrespectful offer to a champion player. Sadly for Derm his two injury plagued seasons leading up to that contract couldn’t have come at a worse time. The club was broke, so much so that former champion player Peter Knights was hired as senior coach mostly because he was prepared, great clubman he was, to do the job for a base salary. Two years later the crisis had reached such a flashpoint that the clubs board was advising the members that a merger with Melbourne was the only way out. Total clusterf...

Thank Christ that garbage is now behind us and Dermott and another champ who got shafted at the time, Gary Ayres, reamain Hawthorn men and deservedly revered figures at the HFC.

 

[emuboy]

I felt so bad for Fitzroy in the early 1990s when their talented players left the club in droves, leaving the side uncompetitive in their final years 1995 and 1996.

At the end of 1992 Richard Osborne and John Blakey left the much improved Lions but they covered their losses and were very competitive, finishing mid-ladder with a 10-10 record. But after that year, Alistair Lynch, Paul Broderick, Michael Gale, Matthew Dundas, Jamie Elliot, Peter Caven and Brett Stephens departed, and this saw the Lions slide to second last in 1994. What happened at the end of 1993 was just a taste of what happened at the end of 1994. Paul Roos, Ross Lyon, Matt Armstrong, Jim Wynd, Michael Dunstan, Darren Wheildon and Marcus Seecamp all departed Fitzroy as did coach Robert Shaw, and the end sadly was near.

 

[flinchfree]

When Barry Rowlings left us (was actually turfed out by a very stupid admin) for Richmond it tore my heart out. It was his name on my duffel, not Matthews or Knights.....though 24 replaced it the following year.
Benny Allan - though on dodgy knees - had been super in his stay and very much captain material...so much promise...back home to Freo as their inaugural leader.
And lastly Darren Jarman heading home to SA felt like a real stab in the back with all he meant at the Hawks.

Dermie being forced out was simply shameful, not for the football play we were to miss out on which was largely diminished, but because of what it said about the admin and how it viewed the players who literally put their vital organs on the line for the colors.

 

[demondavey]

Jack Watts

 

[windyhill]

Merv Neagle. Gavin Wanganeen. Shattering.

 

[Moody Blue]

I felt so bad for Fitzroy in the early 1990s when their talented players left the club in droves, leaving the side uncompetitive in their final years 1995 and 1996.

At the end of 1992 Richard Osborne and John Blakey left the much improved Lions but they covered their losses and were very competitive, finishing mid-ladder with a 10-10 record. But after that year, Alistair Lynch, Paul Broderick, Michael Gale, Matthew Dundas, Jamie Elliot, Peter Caven and Brett Stephens departed, and this saw the Lions slide to second last in 1994. What happened at the end of 1993 was just a taste of what happened at the end of 1994. Paul Roos, Ross Lyon, Matt Armstrong, Jim Wynd, Michael Dunstan, Darren Wheildon and Marcus Seecamp all departed Fitzroy as did coach Robert Shaw, and the end sadly was near.

Fitzroy leaving the Junction Oval was a huge mistake. They had built up a following in the area and were managing to pinch a few of the former South supporters. Once they left the Junction Oval they became nomads and just did not have the supporter base, and from there it was only a matter of time. They should have followed South's lead and relocated to Canberra where they could have built up a decent following, and they would probably still be around. I wonder how long North can last. Their membership is slipping and just do not get to the support even when they were doing well. Could be the Tasmanian team in a few years.

 

[Moody Blue]

JEZZA

Yes and no. He got his hands on a young team and gave them tough love, won a flag and left. Aside from the Percy debacle, we got our hands on Parkin, and that was a pretty good outcome. I know a couple of St.Kilda players who played under Jezza at St.Kilda. Whenever they lost (which was quite often) he would flog them on the track until 9.00 pm on a Tuesday. They were so buggered come Saturday they could not lift their legs. It didn't take him long to realise he had made a terrible mistake leaving the Blues. He made a brief comeback in the early 90's, but no magic left.

 

[Roylion]

Fitzroy leaving the Junction Oval was a huge mistake. They had built up a following in the area and were managing to pinch a few of the former South supporters. Once they left the Junction Oval they became nomads and just did not have the supporter base, and from there it was only a matter of time.

At the Junction Oval there was a real sense of Fitzroy community, even though it was in St Kilda. It was a superb ground to play on, especially after the mud-heap of Brunswick Oval. Standing in front of the Kevin Murray Stand at the Junction Oval surrounded by thousands of Fitzroy people at a game was a fantastic experience. One that was certainly not replicated at Victoria Park and Princes Park. Fitzroy players such as Paul Roos concur.

The AFL's ground sharing policy forced Fitzroy to move from the Junction Oval, where all generated revenue went solely to Fitzroy, to share grounds with other clubs. Victoria Park and Princes Park were the choices. Fitzroy applied to move to Waverley Park, but were knocked back by the league in favor of Hawthorn and St Kilda, who were seen as south-eastern suburban clubs. The MCG was occupied by Richmond, North Melbourne, Melbourne and Essendon and a fifth club was not seen as desirable. That left the Western Oval, Princes Park, Victoria Park and Kardinia Park in Geelong. Kardinia Park wasn't an option for obvious reasons.

Victoria Park and Princes Park were quite unsuitable for Fitzroy. They were owned by Fitzroy's near rivals and in the ground sharing deals, Fitzroy was very much the minor partner. For example Fitzroy’s existing six year lease of Princes Park from 1987-1992 was completely unsatisfactory and contributed largely to Fitzroy's poor financial situation. Over the head of Fitzroy, the AFL had guaranteed Carlton 22 matches at Princes Park from 1993-2000 irrespective of whether Fitzroy played there or not. Therefore at the end of 1992, when their lease ran out, Fitzroy had no bargaining power to negotiate a better ground deal with Carlton. When Carlton presented Fitzroy with a poorer deal than the 1987-1992 lease in 1993, Fitzroy had to either accept a deal in which they would make absolutely no ground revenue or consider a move either back to Victoria Park (last match played there was in 1999) or the only other remaining option - the Western Oval. The negotiations dragged on so long that in 1993, Fitzroy played at Princes Park without a lease and received a bill for $6,000 from Carlton as their 1993 revenue from the home ground. Yet Fitzroy still made a profit that year due to other new sources of revenue they had developed, such as the successful establishment of the "Fitzroy Club Hotel" in Northcote, just north of the Brunswick Street Oval. There were also plans to move back to the Brunswick Street Oval and use it as the club's training base.

They should have followed South's lead and relocated to Canberra where they could have built up a decent following, and they would probably still be around.

Fitzroy was refused permission by the AFL to partially relocate to Canberra, and play seven home games there each season, despite having negotiated a deal which would have netted the Club an extra million dollars a year. Fitzroy's application had the support of the 'AFL for Canberra' organisation, the Canberra Raiders, the Ainslie Football Club and the ACT chief minister, who offered to upgrade Bruce Stadium. However, the AFL point-blank refused to entertain the idea.

Initially, the club was told that Fitzroy's application to play 4 home games in Canberra (which would have netted the club $350,000 annually guaranteed) would "not be a credible exercise" in the Canberra market and would "not be enough games to be worthwhile."

Ross Oakley later said, in an amazingly offensive public statement, that Fitzroy was their 'worst product" and that the AFL wasn't going to send their 'worst product" up to Canberra. (Very clear that the aim of such a statement was to damage the public reputation of Fitzroy)

Fitzroy then offered to play 7 home games in Canberra, which would have netted Fitzroy at least $700,000 a year. In fact, when adding in corporate sponsorship, and ground rights at Bruce Stadium (which would have been upgraded), Fitzroy's projections showed they would have made $1 million extra per season.

An AFL commissioner (guess who?) admitted on 21st November 1995 that the reason why the AFL knocked Fitzroy’s proposal back was because they wanted Port Adelaide in the competition (which ideally would be 16 teams) and therefore wanted to keep the pressure on Fitzroy to merge. They knew that the Canberra proposal, given the widespread support for it in Canberra, was an AFL life-line to Fitzroy…another “White Knight” so to speak, that the AFL didn’t want.

The full timeline of events was:

1995 - 27th May - Fitzroy played their Round 9 home game in Canberra against West Coast
1995 - 15th June - Ian Collins publicly supported Fitzroy's application to play four home games in Canberra in 1996, after application by Fitzroy was submitted (Malcolm Conn: The Australian)
1995 - 25th August - AFL commission rejected Fitzroy's application to play four home games in Canberra in Season 1996
1995 - 28th August - AFL Commissioner Ron Evans told Dyson Hore-Lacy that if Fitzroy were prepared to play the majority of its home games in Canberra, the Commission might look at it. Fitzroy had eleven home games, means that the "majority" was seven.
1995 - September - North Melbourne made a formal written merger proposal to Fitzroy
1995 - October - "AFL for Canberra" endeavours to meet with Fitzroy Football Club, the Ainslee Football Club, the ACT Chief Minister and the AFL commission to discuss a deal where Fitzroy (who had agreed to do so) might play up to seven home games in Canberra. Request for meeting was rejected by the AFL.
1996 - 21st February - Ross Oakley informs Dyson Hore-Lacy that the AFL would not support any initiative for Fitzroy to play any home games in Canberra. Publicly calls Fitzroy their "weakest product" and that the Canberra initiative would not be "creditable".
1996 – March 6. Fitzroy board authorised board members Dyson Hore-Lacy, Elaine Findlay and Robert Johnstone to enter non-binding merger agreements with other AFL clubs.

I wonder how long North can last. Their membership is slipping and just do not get to the support even when they were doing well. Could be the Tasmanian team in a few years.

North Melbourne membership
2013 - 35,246
2014 - 40,092
2015 - 41,012
2016 - 45,014
2017 - 40,343

2017 was still North Melbourne's third highest membership tally ever.

 

[Moody Blue]

At the Junction Oval there was a real sense of Fitzroy community, even though it was in St Kilda. It was a superb ground to play on, especially after the mud-heap of Brunswick Oval. Standing in front of the Kevin Murray Stand at the Junction Oval surrounded by thousands of Fitzroy people at a game was a fantastic experience. One that was certainly not replicated at Victoria Park and Princes Park. Fitzroy players such as Paul Roos concur.

The AFL's ground sharing policy forced Fitzroy to move from the Junction Oval, where all generated revenue went solely to Fitzroy, to share grounds with other clubs. Victoria Park and Princes Park were the choices. Fitzroy applied to move to Waverley Park, but were knocked back by the league in favor of Hawthorn and St Kilda, who were seen as south-eastern suburban clubs. The MCG was occupied by Richmond, North Melbourne, Melbourne and Essendon and a fifth club was not seen as desirable. That left the Western Oval, Princes Park, Victoria Park and Kardinia Park in Geelong. Kardinia Park wasn't an option for obvious reasons.

North Melbourne membership
2013 - 35,246
2014 - 40,092
2015 - 41,012
2016 - 45,014
2017 - 40,343

2017 was still North Melbourne's third highest membership tally ever.

Norf's figures may be more creative accounting and do not come close to matching their attendances. Their 2017 attendances 25,196 were the worst since the late 80's and early 90's. Based on their list and lack of recruiting, I suspect that they will probably be lucky to average 20,000 this year.

 

[Roylion]

Norf's figures may be more creative accounting and do not come close to matching their attendances.

"Creative accounting"? How so? I'm a full Brisbane Lions member but I attend only five-six of their games per year.

North made a net profit of $242,656 in 2017. That's the club's ninth profit in the past ten years. They have a debt of no more than $1.2 million. Is that "creative accounting" also?

Their 2017 attendances 25,196 were the worst since the late 80's and early 90's. Based on their list and lack of recruiting, I suspect that they will probably be lucky to average 20,000 this year.

So off to Tasmania is the conclusion?

 

[Scotland]

Judd. Club captain, best player in the comp and 24 years old. As it turned out he wasn't the best player in the comp from then on and neither us or Carlton won anything during the rest of his career, but it was a s**t time for him to go.

Didn't mind seeing Cousins run around for the Tigers. We de-listed him and ultimately were partly responsible for his life going off the rails.

None of the others really hurt that much. Ebert was annoying because Port didn't have much to offer, Scott Selwood hasn't done much, Matt Rosa is getting more opportunity than we were giving him and gave us 11 seasons, big Q did the best thing for him at the time.

Peter Matera was probably the worst, and he ended up changing his mind and staying and playing another 5 seasons.

 

[Obi fella]

Judd. Club captain, best player in the comp and 24 years old. As it turned out he wasn't the best player in the comp from then on and neither us or Carlton won anything during the rest of his career, but it was a s**t time for him to go.

Didn't mind seeing Cousins run around for the Tigers. We de-listed him and ultimately were partly responsible for his life going off the rails.

None of the others really hurt that much. Ebert was annoying because Port didn't have much to offer, Scott Selwood hasn't done much, Matt Rosa is getting more opportunity than we were giving him and gave us 11 seasons, big Q did the best thing for him at the time.

Peter Matera was probably the worst, and he ended up changing his mind and staying and playing another 5 seasons.

Ross Glenndinning left a foul taste in Norf fans back in the day.

 

[Resigned]

Not many key players have been traded out in my time, Deledio I was happy with since he'd already had his best footy here and we got a good pick in exchange, White, I felt that he was justified since he was confined as a sub the last season we had him, Schulz never really got it going at Tigerland so I didn't mind that much. I remember being upset that Jason Torney was leaving to Adelaide although that probably didn't have much of an effect on the team.