Most Improved 2007

[HBF]

Just on the Lance vs Nick "battle", instead of the players almost forming factions about who they want as captain and so on, why don't they just get on with the business of playing footy, as this is what they are paid to do.

Surely they are sick and tired of being beaten week in week out, and being the butt of a lot of jokes. I know in my workplace, there are people in positions higher up the food chain that I don't agree with, but we are all working for a common cause, so you build a bridge and get over it. You work with them becuase you want your business, or football team in this instance, to succeed.

I'm so sick to death of hearing about off-field and on-field dramas at this footy club.

 

[Funkalicous]

Fisher and Waite. We missed a lot of their brilliance last season and that made us one-dimensional up forward. When fit and firing, our forward line will be impossible to beat.

 

[one_twelve112]

I'd believe it if there was proof.

Until then, it is mere heresay, and I won't believe it.

Has nothing to do with my views.

Stevens is NOT captain material.

Lance will be named captain.

You obviously have proof of this, or it would be as you call it, 'mere heresay'

 

[Jeremias]

You obviously have proof of this, or it would be as you call it, 'mere heresay'

It is an opinion, and I have nothing to back it up.

But there is no doubt that Lance is the leading candidate for the Carlton captaincy, and thoroughly deserved IMO. He is our best on field leader, besides maybe Fev, who is no chance at all of being captain.

 

[navier-stokes equation]

If he was the best on field leader wouldn't he then play on the best players? He doesn't do that, while Stevens and Fevola do. Lance gets hidden in roles that suit him

 

[Jeremias]

If he was the best on field leader wouldn't he then play on the best players? He doesn't do that, while Stevens and Fevola do. Lance gets hidden in roles that suit him

Stevens hardly plays on the best players.

Lance is our general out on the footy field.

 

[Bluebear]

1) Lance doesn't have players. Stevo will.
2) The club are worried sick he will leave when his contract expires and want to secure him longterm

ROFL......

 

[HBF]

Stevens hardly plays on the best players.

Oh come on J, you're better than that. You know as well as the rest of us that Stevens gets the best tagger each week. I've very very rarely seen him go head-to-head with his opponent.

Lance is our general out on the footy field.

Yes he is, and that is why he should be Carlton. I'd still like to know why there are some players that don't want him to be captain, although I doubt whether this is true.

 

[Bluebear]

If he was the best on field leader wouldn't he then play on the best players? He doesn't do that, while Stevens and Fevola do. Lance gets hidden in roles that suit him

Possibly one of the silliest comments I've read thus far. List his opponents last year:
Rd 3 Barry Hall
Rd 4 Trent Croad
Rd 5 Richo
Rd 6/21 Rocca
Rd 7/16 Lucas
Rd 8 Gehrig/Riewoldt

8/22 on the oppositions best forward. Your statement is BS.
Other games the opposition often didn't have two talls to have the match up right.
Who gets switched onto the oppositions best forward when we crap ourselves............he may not always beat them, but week after week big Red sure as hell stands next to them.

Did you notice the best taggers picking up Stevens all year? Nope. They switched to Murph when they realised Stevo was not 100%. Then they switched to Simo when Murp went down.

Stevens hasn't done enough in Navy Blue to warrant the captaincy.

I agree he will improve next year because he will be the 3rd or 4th best mid (let me explain AWG).
This means he will often get the 3rd or 4th best opposition mid as a defender and will be too good for him. He does not have the talent to be the number 1 mid - not fast enough, hard enough.
As at PA he will carve up teams that leave him untagged. With Murphey, Gibbs, and Simo ahead of him on that list, only a shocking run of injuries will see Stevo tagged next year - otherwise Murphey or Gibbs will win the Brownlow.

I would love to see Aisake be the most improved next year...........would solve so many problems.

 

[AndyWalkersGirl]

If he was the best on field leader wouldn't he then play on the best players? He doesn't do that, while Stevens and Fevola do. Lance gets hidden in roles that suit him

Stop being ignorant. Since when is CHB a hidden role? Dont underestimate the importance of Lance to the team this year.

And wow, didn't Stevens shine playing on some of the better players in this competition As for Fevola, he has the better players playing on him . I'm sick of everyone making excuses for Stevens, let's blame the fact that he was tagged every week, for him not being able to play decent footy. Can't handle the pressure, obviously can't be captain.

I did not once see Marc Murphy, an 18 year old in his first year, crumble under the enormous pressue he was put under, and whilest he was heavily tagged by very good opposition players, he still took it in his stride and played ok.

Being tagged is no excuse for Stevens this year. O'hailping, Fevola and Walker were all injured, and had surgery after the last round, and they were all placed against top players - however they still managed to play ok.

Do we expect too much from Stevens, is that why there is so much controversy around his games? I am not a Stevens fan, however I think we do, and that is why he cops it, because we expect him to be a star. he is not a star, he is a solid midfielder in a developing side.

But i still can't get the images of Murphy out of my head - how an 18 year old can play so well, under so much pressure is phenomenal.

Thanks for your explanation Bluebear The thing that bugs me, how come Murphy and Simpson can play very well when they were heavily tagged, and they are only kids, yet someone who wants to be Captain can't step up to it? does it go back to supporters expecting too much from Stevens? Perhaps you are right Bluebear - perhaps he will play better when he is tagged by an average player, with Murphy, Gibbs, Walker and Simpson copping the grunt from opposition players, and only then will Stevens improve.

Stevens gets the best tagger each week. I've very very rarely seen him go head-to-head with his opponent.

What do you mean there HBF? Rarely seen him go head-to-head with his opponent - are you saying that Stevens can't compete with his tagger?

I again leave you with this statement from young Joe Anderson ... that sport is 90% mental and 10% physical.

 

[Bluebear]

Thanks for your explanation Bluebear The thing that bugs me, how come Murphy and Simpson can play very well when they were heavily tagged, and they are only kids, yet someone who wants to be Captain can't step up to it? does it go back to supporters expecting too much from Stevens? Perhaps you are right Bluebear - perhaps he will play better when he is tagged by an average player, with Murphy, Gibbs, Walker and Simpson copping the grunt from opposition players, and only then will Stevens improve.

Stevens won't improve. He will keep playing the way he always has, but without as much pressure, ie lesser opponents, it will appear that he has improved.
I only hope that opposition teams rate him highly and continue to tag him, as an untagged Murphey or Gibbs is probably worth more to us than Stevens. Either way one of the three will be free to deliver to the forwards with less pressure on them, as I can't think of a league side with three quality defensive mids (most are lucky to have 1).

This completes (for now) that piece of the puzzle, next step........ruck and defence, and you can almost taste the next premiership.
Jamieson may go some way to bolstering the defensive stocks, while Aisake and Hampson will go some way to fixing the ruck (fingers crossed).

 

[navier-stokes equation]

In the round 3 game against Sydney, Barry Hall took 9 marks and kicked 1 goal three. You’d have to give the points to Hall in that game. In round 4, Croad smashed Whitnall in the first qtr, and one of the youngsters in Walker had to be moved onto Croad as Whitnall was unable to do the job. I think Croad kicked about 3 or 4 goals in the first qtr on Lance, and ended up with 5 goals for the game. Lance was unable to do the job while Walker was. In round 5 against Richmond, Richardson ended the game with 12 marks and 3 goals 5. Whitnall did not start the game on Richardson – Richardson did well in the first quarter and continued to do well after Lance was moved onto him (during the second quarter.) In Round 6 he took Rocca to the cleaners. In the round 21 game against Collingwood Rocca kicked 6 goals 1.In round 7 Lance played on Lucas. Conditions during the game were very wet, which would have contributed to Lance beating Lucas comprehensively. If you look at the round 16 game played under fine conditions, Whitnall had to be moved off Lucas and Thornton moved onto him after Lucas took Whitnall to the cleaners in the first quarter. During the game against St Kilda, Thornton started on Riewoldt and got beaten easily. Whitnall was then moved onto him and was also beaten easily.

What does this all mean? Going from the facts, Lance struggles on the front liners. He cannot play on the best week in week out and be competitive. When we played Hawthorn the second time around, Croad played down back. Whitnall played on Murphy. Why wouldn’t Lance play on the front liners Williams and Franklin, leaving those jobs to McGrath and Walker?

And AWG given you do not understand what the term ‘head to head’ means I find it hard to take any of your posts about Stevens seriously.

 

[AndyWalkersGirl]

Am i meant to be upset at your comment navier-stokes equation??? You dont have to take my posts seriously, i won't be losing much sleep!

If you read it properly, HBF has said that he very very rarely has seen Stevens go head-to-head with his opponent. That clearly says that Stevens is not up to playing with the big boys of the league. That is why i asked HBF what he meant, just to clarify my thoughts.

Grow up Navier Stokes Equation. And when you do, maybe i'll start taking your abuse seriously.

 

[BlueWorld]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremias
It is an insult to the club that you think they will appoint someone captain in an attempt to keep him at the club, instead of a more deserving candidate. That's just a ridiculous argument.

Stevo will have the players? Lance has lost the players? Like you know

I can only go by what I have heard or been told - came from a reliable source at board level.

Do you know how many people claim to have heard things from very reliable sources?

Told you I'd heard the same thing a while ago from the players. Still don't believe us?

 

[BlueWorld]

Just on the Lance vs Nick "battle", instead of the players almost forming factions about who they want as captain and so on, why don't they just get on with the business of playing footy, as this is what they are paid to do.

Surely they are sick and tired of being beaten week in week out, and being the butt of a lot of jokes. I know in my workplace, there are people in positions higher up the food chain that I don't agree with, but we are all working for a common cause, so you build a bridge and get over it. You work with them becuase you want your business, or football team in this instance, to succeed.

I'm so sick to death of hearing about off-field and on-field dramas at this footy club.

The players need to be united behind someone they respect. That's not Lance.

 

[AndyWalkersGirl]

Well it's certainly not STevens either. Who else is there? Murphy and Walker etc are way too young.

 

[Bluebear]

Possibly one of the silliest comments I've read thus far. List his opponents last year:
Rd 3 Barry Hall
Rd 4 Trent Croad
Rd 5 Richo
Rd 6/21 Rocca
Rd 7/16 Lucas
Rd 8 Gehrig/Riewoldt

8/22 on the oppositions best forward. Your statement is BS.
Other games the opposition often didn't have two talls to have the match up right.
Who gets switched onto the oppositions best forward when we crap ourselves............he may not always beat them, but week after week big Red sure as hell stands next to them.

It pays to read the whole response before making a moot arguement.
Secondly, why if he is the best leader does he have to play on the best player?
Who does that?
Did Voss? Does Hird take the best defender (nope thats Lloyd's), does bucks attract the oppositions best player - no dumb again, just gets a tagger.........you make no sense in the arguement.
Didn't say at any point he beat these guys all the time. Just pointed out to you that when the match up was right he did take the best player from the other team. when the matchup wasn't right he played loose and was the SOLE reason in the backline that the ball came out with any system at all.

Not sure what any of your arguement has to do with the thread topic anyway. Are you going to contribute?

 

[Bluebear]

The players need to be united behind someone they respect. That's not Lance.

Wow, so the rumour mongers have got sick of saying that Pagan has "lost" the players, despite all denials to the contrary, and now the players aren't behind Red.
Name names or shut the hell up!

 

[BlueWorld]

Wow, so the rumour mongers have got sick of saying that Pagan has "lost" the players, despite all denials to the contrary, and now the players aren't behind Red.
Name names or shut the hell up!

You don't think that 2 people with the same info from different sources might be onto something more than a rumour?

 

[Bluebear]

You don't think that 2 people with the same info from different sources might be onto something more than a rumour?

So you know each others sources eh?

Lets try, one person ******** stirs with a rumour, the other joins in because at this time of year we get bored.

O.k. Lets accept that you won't divulge details about which players don't support or respect Lance.
Lets just try the reasons why? Anytime you're ready to slash and burn the B&F winner.................ready?

 

[HBF]

What do you mean there HBF? Rarely seen him go head-to-head with his opponent - are you saying that Stevens can't compete with his tagger?

I was responding to a post by Jeremias that "Stevens hardly plays on the best players". He very rarely plays on the best players as he is tagged week in, week out, and never goes head to head with guys like Cousins, Crawf, etc, etc.

He's not accountable enough to do that, so we plonk him in the midfield and hope he can get enough of it to make it hurt the opposition.

That's why he was so good at Port, becuase the main tag would go to Francou, and then Roger James. If he got tagged, it certainly wasn't by the oppositions best tagger.

 

[BlueWorld]

So you know each others sources eh?

Lets try, one person ******** stirs with a rumour, the other joins in because at this time of year we get bored.

O.k. Lets accept that you won't divulge details about which players don't support or respect Lance.
Lets just try the reasons why? Anytime you're ready to slash and burn the B&F winner.................ready?

I told you this info a few weeks ago: http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=281593&page=4

I don't know one_twelve112 at all or when or how he came up with the same info I've known about for a while. But he says he spoke to a board member. I found that out through someone who knows some of the players.

Which players- most of the more senior ones. Read the interview Lappin recently gave re the lack of options for the captaincy.

Why? He is not respected by them. Sets a poor example. Eating habits. Weight.

 

[Bluebear]

I told you this info a few weeks ago: http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=281593&page=4

I don't know one_twelve112 at all or when or how he came up with the same info I've known about for a while. But he says he spoke to a board member. I found that out through someone who knows some of the players.

Which players- most of the more senior ones. Read the interview Lappin recently gave re the lack of options for the captaincy.

Why? He is not respected by them. Sets a poor example. Eating habits. Weight.

Looks slimer than ever eack pre-season he turns up. For a guy with a hip problem (since U/18's) who will never be an athlete he should be an inspiration.

Is the poor example you speak of to do with the eating thing........in which case what about Lappins poor example in bitching about contracts, Stevo's poor example in softness foro the footy and unwillingness to lay a tackle, Fev........don't get me started.....who else is there?

I find it impossible to believe that Lance has "lost" the players because he is a big boy who loves Tim Tams. FFS each week he gets out there and puts in 100%. Doesn't always win his position but he tries his arse off. I can't think of another leadership candidate (except maybe Simspon) who can say the same.
His footy brain and on-field learership qualities are obvious.

Get specific, name names or get off this topic.

Lappin said he was confident his teammate would put the controversy behind him, though he guessed the 25-year-old was no longer a candidate for the Carlton captaincy.

"That's probably our biggest problem at the moment — that there's nobody who's ready to take it over," Lappin said.

"But I wouldn't mind seeing the club take a bit of a risk and backing one of the younger guys in … make them take the club by the scruff of the neck and lead us somewhere, but that's their choice. Having said that, if Kouta (Anthony Koutoufides) gets it, I've got no problems with that."

Looks paraphrased to me. Show me a transcript of everything he said. All this says is that he thinks Fev has blown his chances. Our biggest problem is choosing a captain? Yeh right - credibility zero.

My best mate is in business with a guy who regularly drinks with Warney, and one of his close mates Kouta. Now I could pretend that I have an inside source and make up all kinds of stuff, hell my mate could tell me all sorts of crap that Kouta allegedly said, to make himself sound important. He doesn't stroke his own ego in that way.
Are you sure you're not being sucked in to giving someone's ego a boost?

 

[blues4flag]

Seeing as he had a very good 06, he doesn't have a the same amount of improvement as, say, Jordan Russel, but I'm more excited about Walker than any other player on our list, bar none. IMO, this guy has our most potential, if he can improve his decision making and disposal (which he did as the year progressed) than than this kid can be anything. Still young, and the sky's the limit the Walker. There is no other player on our list I enjoy watching more when playing on an opponent, he completely switched on and determined. I've said it before and I'll say it again - Walker in a few years time, could very possibly be the BEST player on our list.

 

[AndyWalkersGirl]

Walker may be the BEST on our list in a few years, dont forget he only just turned 20. i love watching him play, he does everything with determination.

Walker, Murphy, Gibbs, Simpson, Kennedy - they are my awesome foursome + one.

Exciting times are ahead, however lets just be a bit more patient.... let's not expect too much of these kids too soon.