Most Improved 2007

[BlueWorld]

Looks slimer than ever eack pre-season he turns up. For a guy with a hip problem (since U/18's) who will never be an athlete he should be an inspiration.

Is the poor example you speak of to do with the eating thing........in which case what about Lappins poor example in bitching about contracts, Stevo's poor example in softness foro the footy and unwillingness to lay a tackle, Fev........don't get me started.....who else is there?

I find it impossible to believe that Lance has "lost" the players because he is a big boy who loves Tim Tams. FFS each week he gets out there and puts in 100%. Doesn't always win his position but he tries his arse off. I can't think of another leadership candidate (except maybe Simspon) who can say the same.
His footy brain and on-field learership qualities are obvious.

Get specific, name names or get off this topic.



Looks paraphrased to me. Show me a transcript of everything he said. All this says is that he thinks Fev has blown his chances. Our biggest problem is choosing a captain? Yeh right - credibility zero.

My best mate is in business with a guy who regularly drinks with Warney, and one of his close mates Kouta. Now I could pretend that I have an inside source and make up all kinds of stuff, hell my mate could tell me all sorts of crap that Kouta allegedly said, to make himself sound important. He doesn't stroke his own ego in that way.
Are you sure you're not being sucked in to giving someone's ego a boost?

All you're telling us is your opinion. How do you know what the players think? If you know someone who knows Kouta tell us what he thinks. I know someone who knows some players and he knows what they think of Lance. They don't respect him. They didn't want him as acting captain this year and they don't want him as captain next year. You think 2 people would make that up independently?

 

[AndyWalkersGirl]

And i'd also love to see Bower play consistent footy - doesn't have to be spectacular footy, just solid and consistent. I hate his running style though

 

[Bluebear]

All you're telling us is your opinion. How do you know what the players think? If you know someone who knows Kouta tell us what he thinks. I know someone who knows some players and he knows what they think of Lance. They don't respect him. They didn't want him as acting captain this year and they don't want him as captain next year. You think 2 people would make that up independently?

Yep. I never pretended it was anything other than my opinion. Thats why I say .....I believe, and IMO....
The point (which you seem to have missed completely) won't be made again. If you missed it the first time read the last paragraph again..... slowly........out loud if it aids comprehension.

The previous threads on this allude to (without naming) senior players who don't support Lance..........so lets speculate (my opinion).
Senior players (5 years or more service):

Fev - Has supported Red in statements regarding the captaincy, and is in no position to take sides due to current behaviour.

Kouta - No indication of lack of support here
"There's other great leaders at the club and only time will tell which way they will go and who they will choose, but I'll be there to support them in any way I can.

"Obviously I've got to look at my vice-captains. Lance Whitnall, Nick Stevens and Matthew Lappin have been a great support for me this year, and there are certainly people that you can look at next year.

Lappin - showed how selfish he was becoming with his contract dispute last year. Probably pissed off his name isn't being bandied around as a likely candidate. Needs to come to grips with the fact he is on the way out. Wouldn't surpise me if he is one of the few who don't support Red.

Stevens - main rival for the job. IMO hasn't done enough, but he probably thinks he has. Came to the club as a superstar, but is a solid player. As with Lappin, probably wants the job badly and as he would have no loyalty to the club or Red it would not surprise me if he was another one not supporting Red.

Scotland - Much harder read. Open to any suggestions. He seems like a level headed guy, and spends a lot of game time around Red. Would be interested to read or hear his opinion. Given tha he hasn't been at the club long it would surprise me if he had strong opinions on the matter.

(Saddington ommitted as he isn't entitled to any opinion until he plays 5 games for us)

Pagan said Whitnall had given an inspirational address to the playing group ahead of his 200th AFL match this Sunday against Collingwood and the Blues coach urged his players to go all-out in support of the milestone.

"We have really made a focus of that and I hope our guys can really support Lance - he has been a wonderful stalwart for the club - he's been so loyal, he's tried as hard as he possibly can every time," he said.

"He's very popular with everyone at the club, I hope it's a good game for Lance, I hope the boys can support him to the hilt and we might be able to sneak over the line."


Trying hard to find evidence other than "your mate" about this lack of support.......feel free to assist anyway you can (would prefer something concrete rather than more rumour etc)

Apart from Stevo and Lappin what other "senior" players don't back Red.
Do the other players really feel strongly about it?
Given that they tend to have multiple leaders anyway, do they really care that much who tosses the coin (apart from those mentioned for selfish reasons).

Many assume that the role is caretaker for a couple of years unti Murphey/Gibbs take over, so why would there be such strong feelings on the matter?

 

[M_I_G]

nah ur all wrong, deluca will be the most improved, simply by not running around in the navy blue he is making the biggest improvement he could.
but in all seriousness i'd like to see fish and waite improve heaps

 

[drusswaylander]

Josh for me With a full pre-season and his shoulder right I expect him to have a good year

He showed enough in the Ants and in a couple of his senior games to suggest he has what it takes. Not sure why some people are on his back in some other threads, as he had some monster games for the Ants. It wasn't easy playing in our forward line considering how it was going in and our first, second and third option was Fev


Nick Riewoldt only played six games in his first year and had injury problems, then exploded in his second year and won the rising star.
Heres hoping No pressure Josh...really

 

[drusswaylander]

Just on who should be Captain which seems to be a sub text in the thread. I don't have an inside source who spoke to the fly on the wall who went out with the boot studder by the way

My take on the situation is that Lance is the best available option, but one of the young guns will captain our next premiership

I imagine most of us have played or still play some sort of team sport at various levels and invariably someone is the butt of the jokes. With his weight problems I imagine for the Blues it was Big Red. It will be tough for many to suddenly treat him as a Captain I actually think the captain is an important position and most successful clubs have had a good one.

When Lance becomes Captain it will be his job to win back any respect that he may have lost during what I consider his lost years. I also actually think he can make a good captain

 

[BlueWorld]

Trying hard to find evidence other than "your mate" about this lack of support.......feel free to assist anyway you can (would prefer something concrete rather than more rumour etc)

Apart from Stevo and Lappin what other "senior" players don't back Red.
Do the other players really feel strongly about it?
Given that they tend to have multiple leaders anyway, do they really care that much who tosses the coin (apart from those mentioned for selfish reasons).

Many assume that the role is caretaker for a couple of years unti Murphey/Gibbs take over, so why would there be such strong feelings on the matter?

I imagine most of us have played or still play some sort of team sport at various levels and invariably someone is the butt of the jokes. With his weight problems I imagine for the Blues it was Big Red. It will be tough for many to suddenly treat him as a Captain I actually think the captain is an important position and most successful clubs have had a good one.

I don't know what evidence you think I should provide. It's not a rumour I heard from someone I don't trust. He definitely knows players. If you don't want to believe it that's up to you. I don't seem to be the only one who's been told that.

There's no point naming names for you to speculate why.

I think asking to have Lance removed as acting captain mid season suggests they feel strongly about it. There's more to it than tossing the coin. I wouldn't assume it's a caretaker role or that any player who's been there 5 mins is any more likely to have the respect of players who've been playing for many years.

I think drusswaylander may have just about got it.

 

[Muji]

And i'd also love to see Bower play consistent footy - doesn't have to be spectacular footy, just solid and consistent. I hate his running style though

Gee.. Lance looks slimmer then ever.

 

[HBF]

Walker may be the BEST on our list in a few years, dont forget he only just turned 20. i love watching him play, he does everything with determination.

Yes, but you're biased AWG!!

 

[Johnny_3]

Dennis Pagan I hope.

me too, me too

 

[drusswaylander]

There are genuine concerns BlueWorld, but where we differ is that I think once he is Captain he can win those players with doubts back .

As Bluebear points out any problems would be with the senior players who have been at the club for a bit. Frankly most of the kids have only seen the good Lance and to be honest would be more concerned with getting a game rather than the captaincy. Murph has actually come out and said some complimentary things about Big Red helping players run to the right spots

Once Lance is Captain any rumblings will settle down, if he does a good job, as those with leadership aspirations stop stirring and get behind him

To be honest whether a person has a source codenamed Deepthroat or not is generally impossible to prove or disprove over the net, so to be honest a healthy scepticism is the safer option. That is nothing personal against people as some probably do have genuine info, but many don't
The problem with any genuine source is also that it can be just one persons or a small groups reality of a situation rather than the actuality.
Perception is a funny thing.

Things are looking up for Carlton and I genuinely think Lance can do a good job Everyone get out there and buy a membership

 

[BlueWorld]

There are genuine concerns BlueWorld, but where we differ is that I think once he is Captain he can win those players with doubts back .

As Bluebear points out any problems would be with the senior players who have been at the club for a bit. Frankly most of the kids have only seen the good Lance and to be honest would be more concerned with getting a game rather than the captaincy. Murph has actually come out and said some complimentary things about Big Red helping players run to the right spots

Once Lance is Captain any rumblings will settle down, if he does a good job, as those with leadership aspirations stop stirring and get behind him

To be honest whether a person has a source codenamed Deepthroat or not is generally impossible to prove or disprove over the net, so to be honest a healthy scepticism is the safer option. That is nothing personal against people as some probably do have genuine info, but many don't
The problem with any genuine source is also that it can be just one persons or a small groups reality of a situation rather than the actuality.
Perception is a funny thing.

Things are looking up for Carlton and I genuinely think Lance can do a good job Everyone get out there and buy a membership

Yes it's more the senior players than the junior ones.

Only time will tell whether they accept him if he is made captain. I do know they didn't want to accept him when he was made acting captain mid year. If they don't accept him as captain there will be problems.

Whether you believe me or not is up to you but I can't think how I can prove it.

 

[drusswaylander]

It generally is the senior players stirring mate although there aren't that many senior players left.

There is a big difference between acting Captain and Captain as aspirants have a vested interest

I think you'll find the Captain aspirants will be supportive once a decision has been made and Fev's Irish adventure will have sorted some things out as he is a very popular player, but the captaincy is now not an option for him Once the dust settles they will get behind him unless they are nasty vindictive types. Lets hope we don't have many of those

As I said it is pointless trying to prove or disprove any source mate