Opinion Most overrated players from each team?

[lordbob]

Well GAJ beat him in every H&A record known to man. 5 MVPs will not be broken. Dusty beats Leigh in finals including GFs 3 NS’s will not be broken, Buddy has 4 Coleman’s which is also a record. I know it’s not fair to compare as he is a forward though. Still proves he’s a better and more skilful goal kicker than Leigh especially since he did it in the AFL era against professionals and team defence. 1000 goals will not be kicked again.

These guys are the best of the best, if they still aren’t good enough compared to Leigh nobody ever will be. Your standards are way to high and you are remembering him better than what he was. He lost 3/7 GFs he’s not unbeatable.

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Let me get this straight, your argument is: If none of the best players from the last 10-20 years are better than the man judged to be the best player of all time, then no one can ever beat him? Am i reading that right? Why does a player even from this century have to considered the GOAT? its only been 22 years out of a sport thats been around for a lot longer than that. Maths isnt on your side here.

VFL was formed in 1897 so about 125 years of competition. You are saying that if the best players who played during 16% of that time arent the GOAT then no one else can ever be the GOAT? My maths might be a bit off, but it doesnt seem like probability isnt on the side of your argument.

 

[lordbob]

Well GAJ beat him in every H&A record known to man.

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I must have missed that season where GAJ averaged over 27 touches a game and kicked over 90 goals. When did dusty or franklin do it?

Imagine if in 2008 when franklin kicked 108 goals, he got 27 disposals (instead of 15) per game average and wasn't playing KPF.

GAJ averaged more disposals but never kicked more than 44 Goals in a season. If he doubled the number of goals he kicked then he'd probably have taken the title. Probably the closest anyone has gotten this century.

Career avg:
GAJ: 24.9 D 1.2 G
LM: 22.3 D 2.8 G

 

[Falcon3518]

Let me get this straight, your argument is: If none of the best players from the last 10-20 years are better than the man judged to be the best player of all time, then no one can ever beat him? Am i reading that right? Why does a player even from this century have to considered the GOAT? its only been 22 years out of a sport thats been around for a lot longer than that. Maths isnt on your side here.

VFL was formed in 1897 so about 125 years of competition. You are saying that if the best players who played during 16% of that time arent the GOAT then no one else can ever be the GOAT? My maths might be a bit off, but it doesnt seem like probability isnt on the side of your argument.

Yes, because of the advancement in sport science from 40+ years ago and considering the achievements these players have done which will not be seen again. The quality of football back then was atrocious compared to today just look at Leigh’s highlights. Another example is Jezzas famous mark. It’s not impressive at all for today’s standards players do that every game now, but back then it was considered unreal cause nobody had skill.


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[gouki88]

Yes, because of the advancement in sport science from 40+ years ago and considering the achievements these players have done which will not be seen again. The quality of football back then was atrocious compared to today just look at Leigh’s highlights. Another example is Jezzas famous mark. It’s not impressive at all for today’s standards players do that every game now, but back then it was considered unreal cause nobody had skill.


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You might be more ignorant of our games history than anyone I’ve ever seen.

That mark is legendary because it turned a grand final. And because it was spectacular.

No, people do not do that every week. “Nobody had skill” is a disgraceful comment - seriously? Not sure why anyone would give your opinion any value if you’re going to fling s**t like that at players gone by, without whom we have no game today.

 

[Falcon3518]

You might be more ignorant of our games history than anyone I’ve ever seen.

That mark is legendary because it turned a grand final. And because it was spectacular.

No, people do not do that every week. “Nobody had skill” is a disgraceful comment - seriously? Not sure why anyone would give your opinion any value if you’re going to fling s**t like that at players gone by, without whom we have no game today.

Seriously? I think you need to watch it again. If that is what the mark of the century was, thank god I did not grow up in the VFL era.




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[gouki88]

Seriously? I think you need to watch it again. If that is what the mark of the century was, thank god I did not grow up in the VFL era.




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I don’t think you’ve grown up at all mate!

 

[Falcon3518]

I don’t think you’ve grown up at all mate!

Nah I’m just not blinded by nostalgia mate.


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[Grrr]

I think people are taking my comment the wrong way. I’m actually asking a question, I’m not insinuating anything.


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As someone who remembers all the great players from Matthews to Buddy, Dusty (still playing), there have been a few who have held the reputation or have rivalled for the greatest player of all time. GAJ is up there mainly because he was great for so long, a mark of greatness, but he was not as dominant a player as Matthews by influence, numbers, however you look at it, but he is in the conversation. At times in their careers modern players like Voss, Judd, Dusty and quite a few others were held in regard as being the greatest of their time, but none of them rivalled Matthews in reputation as being the most dominant player for their entire careers.

GAS's brilliance was undoubtably the greatest, but he wasn't as consistent as Lethal. Carey was great but not as great as the other two. Bartlett was great for as long as Lethal, but a rung or two lower.

Dusty's 3 N.S's made him one of the great finals players of all time, but he did not carry that through many seasons. Medals and accolades don't mean that much, it is the reputation you leave the game with that stands the test of time. It's a bit of a pub test but the punters generally get it right.

 

[Falcon3518]

I must have missed that season where GAJ averaged over 27 touches a game and kicked over 90 goals. When did dusty or franklin do it?

Imagine if in 2008 when franklin kicked 108 goals, he got 27 disposals (instead of 15) per game average and wasn't playing KPF.

GAJ averaged more disposals but never kicked more than 44 Goals in a season. If he doubled the number of goals he kicked then he'd probably have taken the title. Probably the closest anyone has gotten this century.

Career avg:
GAJ: 24.9 D 1.2 G
LM: 22.3 D 2.8 G

I dunno why people keep referencing goals. The goals he kicked are not the equivalent difficulty to todays and were against part time players how didn’t even train. Tbh I thought at least the GAJ one would be obvious, I’ve come across many people who believe he is better than Lethal. The demographic of people on Bigfooty must be older.


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[Falcon3518]

As someone who remembers all the great players from Matthews to Buddy, Dusty (still playing), there have been a few who have held the reputation or have rivalled for the greatest player of all time. GAJ is up there mainly because he was great for so long, a mark of greatness, but he was not as dominant a player as Matthews by influence, numbers, however you look at it, but he is in the conversation. At times in their careers modern players like Voss, Judd, Dusty and quite a few others were held in regard as being the greatest of their time, but none of them rivalled Matthews in reputation as being the most dominant player for their entire careers.

GAS's brilliance was undoubtably the greatest, but he wasn't as consistent as Lethal. Carey was great but not as great as the other two. Bartlett was great for as long as Lethal, but a rung or two lower.

Dusty's 3 N.S's made him one of the great finals players of all time, but he did not carry that through many seasons. Medals and accolades don't mean that much, it is the reputation you leave the game with that stands the test of time. It's a bit of a pub test but the punters generally get it right.

Who exactly did Lethal have to contend with for GOAT status when we was playing? No way near the amount or quality of the AFL era. If you make a top 10 GOAT list only 1 player from the VFL era is in it, being Lethal and the AFL has only been going for 30 years compared to 100+


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[Grrr]

I dunno why people keep referencing goals. The goals he kicked are not the equivalent difficulty to todays and were against part time players how didn’t even train.


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Sorry, who didn't train. Go and ask a Richmond player of the day what it was like to train under Hafey. 3 days a week, 2 very heavy sessions, especially when you lost, and that was my memory as a young VFA player. They were fit in those days.

 

[gouki88]

Sorry, who didn't train. Go and ask a Richmond player of the day what it was like to train under Hafey. 3 days a week, 2 very heavy sessions, especially when you lost, and that was my memory as a young VFA player. They were fit in those days.

I wouldn't bother. Anyone pre-AFL is apparently a plumber or a bum.

 

[Grrr]

Who exactly did Lethal have to contend with for GOAT status when we was playing? No way near the amount or quality of the AFL era. If you make a top 10 GOAT list only 1 player from the VFL era is in it, being Lethal.


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You don't remember them because you never saw them, but the great players of yesteryear would walk into todays sides. Ian Stewart, Skilton, Greig, Blight (as talented a player that has ever played), Quinlan, Dempsey, Bartlett and plenty more were stars of the game and right up there with Voss, Harvey, Hird, Dusty etc.

 

[Falcon3518]

Sorry, who didn't train. Go and ask a Richmond player of the day what it was like to train under Hafey. 3 days a week, 2 very heavy sessions, especially when you lost, and that was my memory as a young VFA player. They were fit in those days.

Most of them didn’t. And coaching in those days especially on match day was 80% yelling and insulting the players for not being good enough and/or ‘taking the opposition player out’ if they were playing better. They made plans for individual players but not the opposition team as a whole. They were also no way near as fit as today, we have professional athletes now doing it full time.


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[tiger_tough]

9 of 29 are from frees.

So no. 1 in the AFL for goals from free kicks....

 

[Falcon3518]

As someone who remembers all the great players from Matthews to Buddy, Dusty (still playing), there have been a few who have held the reputation or have rivalled for the greatest player of all time. GAJ is up there mainly because he was great for so long, a mark of greatness, but he was not as dominant a player as Matthews by influence, numbers, however you look at it, but he is in the conversation. At times in their careers modern players like Voss, Judd, Dusty and quite a few others were held in regard as being the greatest of their time, but none of them rivalled Matthews in reputation as being the most dominant player for their entire careers.

GAS's brilliance was undoubtably the greatest, but he wasn't as consistent as Lethal. Carey was great but not as great as the other two. Bartlett was great for as long as Lethal, but a rung or two lower.

Dusty's 3 N.S's made him one of the great finals players of all time, but he did not carry that through many seasons. Medals and accolades don't mean that much, it is the reputation you leave the game with that stands the test of time. It's a bit of a pub test but the punters generally get it right.

Do you think we will see better players than GAJ, Dusty and Buddy in the future? If not, then you will live the rest of your life thinking Lethal is the best even 80ish years since he played. Imo that’s crazy.


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[Grrr]

Most of them didn’t. And coaching in those days especially on match day was 80% yelling and insulting the players for not being good enough and/or ‘taking the opposition player out’ if they were playing better. They made plans for individual players but not the opposition team as a whole. They were also no way near as fit as today, we have professional athletes now doing it full time.


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What planet are you on. 'Most of them didn't train' after I just told you we got flogged at VFL level and Hafey had a reputation for torturing his players. 100 x 100 metre runs was one of his tricks. You are making statements about things you have no idea about. They may not have been quite as fit, but they didn't get the luxury of an interchange either as there wasn't a bench unless you were taken out of the game.

 

[gouki88]

What planet are you on. 'Most of them didn't train' after I just told you we got flogged at VFL level and Hafey had a reputation for torturing his players. 100 x 100 metre runs was one of his tricks. You are making statements about things you have no idea about. They may not have been quite as fit, but they didn't get the luxury of an interchange either as there wasn't a bench unless you were taken out of the game.

Players back then didn't even know how to run, obviously

 

[The Devils Advocate]

I honestly feel like he is properly rated, apart from a few s**t opinions from journos who overrate him

That's probably it.

Is he overrated? He's kicked more than players like Pickett, Weightman and Rankine.

I just think he's an AFL villain more than overrated.

Agree. I think he's underrated, but it's all potential and an Anzac medal.

 

[Grrr]

Do you think we will see better players than GAJ, Dusty and Buddy in the future? If not, then you will live the rest of your life thinking Lethal is the best even 80ish years since he played. Imo that’s crazy.


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80 years since he played?

Of course some modern players might better the great players of yesteryear. Nobody in the years I've been watching footy has been a better athlete than GAS. Nobody a combination of faster, stronger, more aggressive, better mark, dual sided, kick it longer etc. Not Dusty, who would be the closest of today's athletes but still far behind GAS.

Nobody I've seen has had more impact around the ball that Matthews. His strength, speed and change of direction was incredible and what made him so great. He was brutally tough at the ball. And they had to do it with the fear of another player knocking their heads off.

When a player like that comes along yes they will be better than them perhaps. I'm not living in the past, Dusty would be close to the best footballer I've seen at Richmond, up there with Bartlett I'd say.

 

[Falcon3518]

What planet are you on. 'Most of them didn't train' after I just told you we got flogged at VFL level and Hafey had a reputation for torturing his players. 100 x 100 metre runs was one of his tricks. You are making statements about things you have no idea about. They may not have been quite as fit, but they didn't get the luxury of an interchange either as there wasn't a bench unless you were taken out of the game.

So do you think they were as fit/athletic as players today or not?


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[Falcon3518]

80 years since he played?

Of course some modern players might better the great players of yesteryear. Nobody in the years I've been watching footy has been a better athlete than GAS. Nobody a combination of faster, stronger, more aggressive, better mark, dual sided, kick it longer etc. Not Dusty, who would be the closest of today's athletes but still far behind GAS.

Nobody I've seen has had more impact around the ball that Matthews. His strength, speed and change of direction was incredible and what made him so great. He was brutally tough at the ball. And they had to do it with the fear of another player knocking their heads off.

When a player like that comes along yes they will be better than them perhaps. I'm not living in the past, Dusty would be close to the best footballer I've seen at Richmond, up there with Bartlett I'd say.

Yes 80, so another 40 years from now will you still be thinking that. Just from what you have been saying I think you will.

Not as athletic as GAS? From what I have been hearing he didn’t rock up to training. What made him good is his freak skill rather than athleticism right? I doubt he could beat players today in the beep test, vertical leap or agility trials. I’m also pretty sure Dusty would be more explosive then him and harder to tag but GAS is stronger in marking contest easily.

Again with Lethal, you think he’s as strong as somebody like Cripps or Carey who have like 10-15 kg on him and are built like a tanks. Now you are just taking the piss mate. Lethal isn’t as explosive as Judd/Dusty either. I understand arguing about ball skills were better back in the day but I’ve never even heard apart from this thread that they were better athletes back then. It universally recognised that they weren’t.


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[FreddyTwoShoes]

Do you think we will see better players than GAJ, Dusty and Buddy in the future? If not, then you will live the rest of your life thinking Lethal is the best even 80ish years since he played. Imo that’s crazy.


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So.....

If anyone thinks someone you've never seen play is better than 3 people you might have seen play, then everybody in the future (who you haven't seen play) can't ever be better than the other person who you've never seen play?

Have I got that right?

 

[Grrr]

So do you think they were as fit/athletic as players today or not?


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No but they were better marks for sure. But they were still very fit.
I can assure you 100% there has been no better athlete ever on an AFL field than GAS.

 

[Grrr]

Yes 80, so another 40 years from now will you still be thinking that. Just from what you have been saying I think you will.

Not as athletic as GAS? From what I have been hearing he didn’t rock up to training. What made him good is his freak skill rather than athleticism right? I doubt he could beat players today in the beep test, vertical leap or agility trials. I’m also pretty sure Dusty would be more explosive then him and harder to tag but GAS is stronger in marking contest easily.

Again with Lethal, you think he’s as strong as somebody like Cripps or Carey who have like 10-15 kg on him and are built like a tanks. Now you are just taking the piss mate. Lethal isn’t as explosive as Judd/Dusty either. I understand arguing about ball skills were better back in the day but I’ve never even heard apart from this thread that they were better athletes back then. It universally recognised that they weren’t.


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You have no idea, have you ever watched Ablett's highlight. He was a freak of an athlete, just as Jeff Thomson was the fastest and most lethal bowler in history. Nothing to do with nostalgia, he just was.

No Dusty is not stronger than Ablett. Ablett was 185cm and 97kg's of pure muscle. Dusty has great strength through the core, but so had Ablett, who was faster, had a far greater leap, one of the greatest to have ever played the game, was a bigger kick off either foot. Maybe Dusty might have beaten him in a beep test but no so sure.

Carey was a CHF so what is the point in comparing. As a mid Cripps can dominate games like no other due to his size, but he is a bull and generally runs in straight lines. Matthews was 86kg's of muscle who could change direction better than any play I've seen. Dusty has been compared to him and I can see aspects of that. Koutoufides a big mid from the 90's on was 191cm and 98kg's and was considered one of the greats for a short while because he was fast and a great mover would have stood Cripps no problem, 20 years earlier. Just because it is 2022 it doesn't make them better.