Most polarising players

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Gough said:
Was going to add Shane Watson to the mix but by the end it was hard to find too many defending him.
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I’d defend Watto to the grave!

The whole DRS joke regarding him annoys me, on replay a lot of them were very tight umpires calls.
 

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Carbine Chaos said:
I’d defend Watto to the grave!

The whole DRS joke regarding him annoys me, on replay a lot of them were very tight umpires calls.
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The point was that they were all identical. Plonking his front foot in exactly the same place to exactly the same ball and expecting the outcome to be different t
 
PhatBoy said:
The point was that they were all identical. Plonking his front foot in exactly the same place to exactly the same ball and expecting the outcome to be different t
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Sure. But the flack he cops is hyperbolic, you'd think they were all missing by a foot.

Underperformed in Tests with the bat, but being thrown around position-wise didn't help. Did an admirable job at the top for a while. Was a very classy fourth seamer when fit enough to bowl, very wily and good enough to adjust his bowling style to suit his body. Was an elite limited overs player, obviously.

Was a player Australian fans took for granted.
 
Carbine Chaos said:
Sure. But the flack he cops is hyperbolic, you'd think they were all missing by a foot.

Underperformed in Tests with the bat, but being thrown around position-wise didn't help. Did an admirable job at the top for a while. Was a very classy fourth seamer when fit enough to bowl, very wily and good enough to adjust his bowling style to suit his body. Was an elite limited overs player, obviously.

Was a player Australian fans took for granted.
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definitely second that while he underperformed (based on his talent level) in Tests overall, his ODI and T20 records were excellent, he delivered for us in the big games time and time again.

His test record was 3700 runs at 35 and 75 wickets at 33. That's not bad at all. People talk like Flintoff was an all time great - he averaged 31 with the bat, 33 with the ball.
 

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PhatBoy said:
I think you’ll find if you look closely enough there were battalions of Australians who hated him from the outset.
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maybe when he first arrived on the scene, because he was a cocky south african who was performing against Australia. But i mean these days he is cheered onto the ground. people love him.
 
Belnakor said:
definitely second that while he underperformed (based on his talent level) in Tests overall, his ODI and T20 records were excellent, he delivered for us in the big games time and time again.

His test record was 3700 runs at 35 and 75 wickets at 33. That's not bad at all. People talk like Flintoff was an all time great - he averaged 31 with the bat, 33 with the ball.
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Flintoff was a number 6 - who would have batted at 7 if Matt Prior came along earlier - and was used as a frontline bowler. Watson spent the majority of his career being used as a specialist batsman who could bowl when needed.

Averaging 33 with the Ball while taking 3 wickets a match is slightly different to averaging 33 while taking just over 1 wicket per match. The more you bowl the harder it is to maintain a good average.
 
Carbine Chaos said:
I’d defend Watto to the grave!

The whole DRS joke regarding him annoys me, on replay a lot of them were very tight umpires calls.
Click to expand...
I'm a big Robot fan but his referrals got very stupid that series, just wouldn't learn. And some were pretty plumb.
 
Gough, are you referring to just Australian players or internationals as well?

Internationally, there are so many controversial players that it would be difficult to make an XI of them, so I'm going to just stick with an Australian XI:

1) SR Watson (his DRS calls and his underachievement in Test matches infuriated many Australians)
2) ML Hayden (his personality/religious convictions are overbearing for some, maybe many)
3) IM Chappell* (feuds with Bradman/Botham/Steve Waugh, involvement in WSC, extremely forthright opinions)
4) ME Waugh (a toss-up between him and Neil Harvey/Greg Chappell - not just because many were frustrated by his underachievement, but for his involvement with bookmakers)
5) MJ Clarke (one of the most divisive Australian cricketers in recent memory, not helped by being overhyped early and by poor relationships with many of his teammates)
6) A Symonds (his involvement in Monkeygate turned him into an internationally controversial figure, his resultant alcoholism sullied his reputation somewhat at home, plus his issues with Michael Clarke)
7) BJ Haddin+ (accused of cheating RE Neil Broom, notably a prick on the field, many haven't forgotten that shot at Cape Town)
8) SK Warne (self-explanatory)
9) MG Johnson (his inconsistency and diffident personality split opinion)
10) B Lee (controversy regarding his action early on, plus his record for much of his career was distinctly mediocre)
11) SW Tait (controversy regarding his action, plus his singular talent was marred by some by his injury record, extreme inconsistency and his inability to bat/field)

12th man: RN Harvey/GS Chappell (the former because his sour comments on the modern game have long since overshadowed his batting ability for younger generations; the latter because of his involvement in the underarm controversy and WSC plus his apparently somewhat prickly personality)
 
In the end Watson had a higher batting average than bowling average. That's pretty good going for any all rounder. Still could have done better which is always frustrating.

Mooen Ali gets fingered by the UK press (in a good way). Forgetting the Australian tour and he had a worse record the Watson who got s**t canned. Yeah Ali could convert his centuries better, but with the ball he's had two good series (early on v India and last year v South Africa). Ali has had a lot of tests where he's just a complete non entity. He'd only averaged below 40 with the ball in 4 out of 13 series (and 2 of those 4 series he played 2 tests)... Obviously Ali has copped a lot of criticism for the Ashes.

The difference in media perception from two players with relatively similar performances on the board was always quite staggering.
 
The Passenger said:
In the end Watson had a higher batting average than bowling average. That's pretty good going for any all rounder. Still could have done better which is always frustrating.

Mooen Ali gets fingered by the UK press (in a good way). Forgetting the Australian tour and he had a worse record the Watson who got s**t canned. Yeah Ali could convert his centuries better, but with the ball he's had two good series (early on v India and last year v South Africa). Ali has had a lot of tests where he's just a complete non entity. He'd only averaged below 40 with the ball in 4 out of 13 series (and 2 of those 4 series he played 2 tests)... Obviously Ali has copped a lot of criticism for the Ashes.

The difference in media perception from two players with relatively similar performances on the board was always quite staggering.
Click to expand...

Ali is a genuine all-rounder at home whereas he is a no-rounder overseas, which is why English media perception of him is relatively positive. His relatively unassuming personality and lack of issues with DRS help.
 
The Passenger said:
In the end Watson had a higher batting average than bowling average. That's pretty good going for any all rounder. Still could have done better which is always frustrating.

Mooen Ali gets fingered by the UK press (in a good way). Forgetting the Australian tour and he had a worse record the Watson who got s**t canned. Yeah Ali could convert his centuries better, but with the ball he's had two good series (early on v India and last year v South Africa). Ali has had a lot of tests where he's just a complete non entity. He'd only averaged below 40 with the ball in 4 out of 13 series (and 2 of those 4 series he played 2 tests)... Obviously Ali has copped a lot of criticism for the Ashes.

The difference in media perception from two players with relatively similar performances on the board was always quite staggering.
Click to expand...

Does no one see that Watson, as good as his figures are for an all-rounder, was a batsman who could bowl, not a proper all rounder? Ali isn’t as good a cricketer as Watson. But he’s not a batsman - he’s been used to plug every gap in the team from 1-8 without being given a proper run at any of them. It’s clear to anyone that he’s no more than a back-up bowler, mind.
 
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