Most successful/disappointing clubs since 1990

[saints_333]

Over the past couple of months I have been making a table of the teams since 1990 just to see how successful and disappointing they have been to help put some perspectives on the league and in the end I have made a bit of a points table out of it. I have given 2 points for every time a team made the top 8 (but not the top 4), 5 points for making the top 4 (6 points if they also played in the Grand Final but lost) and 10 points for winning the Grand Final and this is the tally I have come up with. I have also created some other stats as well. Let me know what you think.


West Coast 120
Hawthorn 119
Geelong 119
Sydney 94
Collingwood 76
Kangaroos 74
Essendon 72
Brisbane 69
Adelaide 69
Carlton 60
Bulldogs 55
Port Adelaide 46
St. Kilda 46
Richmond 36
Melbourne 30
Fremantle 25
GWS 12
Gold Coast 0

Most Grand Final Wins=
1. Hawthorn= 5
2. West Coast= 4
3. Geelong, Brisbane= 3

Most Grand Finals Played in=
1. Geelong, West Coast= 7
2. Sydney, Hawthorn, Collingwood= 6
3. Brisbane, Essendon= 4

Most Top 4's=
1. Geelong= 15
2. West Coast= 11
3. Hawthorn, Sydney= 10

Most Top 8's=
1. West Coast= 22
2. Sydney, Geelong= 20
3. Hawthorn= 19

Most bottom 8's=
1. Richmond= 22
2. Brisbane, Melbourne= 19
3. Carlton, Fremantle, St.Kilda= 18

Most Wooden Spoons=
1. Carlton=5
2. Brisbane= 4
3. Melbourne, Sydney= 3

 

[wobblypunt]

I would say Hawthorn are the most successful you can't argue with Premiership wins but I appreciate the effort you put into making this.

 

[The GOAT]

Good effort but premiership wins are all that matter. Therefore Richmond have performed better than St Kilda and Hawthorn better than West Coast. Brisbane too low as well.

 

[Forward Press]

Winning a GF probably should be rated much higher than simply five times more important than making finals (10 pts vs 2 pts). I can tell you who won the flag every year since 1990 but would struggle to tell how many times each team made finals.

For that reason alone Hawthorn should be rated most successful. I do appreciate the effort and explanation though, and the metrics you chose which allowed us to be number 1.

 

[Kappa]

St Kilda should be lower, the clubs culture is based on disappointment.

 

[74561347]

i like how geelong at 119 is the same margin as the 07 flag.

 

[Randy Campbell]

Most Grand Final Wins=
1. Hawthorn
2. West Coast
3. Geelong, Brisbane

This is how I would rate the most successful.

 

[saints_333]

I would say Hawthorn are the most successful you can't argue with Premiership wins but I appreciate the effort you put into making this.

hmm I'm not so sure. I have thought about putting the Grand Final wins at 20 points to see if it makes a difference. I understand that Premierships are very important and the are the very highest you can get in the league but at the end of the day if you are a rubbish team in general, one Grand Final over 20 years for example like Richmond, when you have been trash for the majority, imo you don't deserve the higher credit for it. Hawthorn, I agree perhaps take the top spot but at the end of the day they only have one more premiership but have had a few poorer years in between. Brisbane are another case where they won those 3 premierships in a row and have done absolutely nothing since. St.Kilda as mentioned by others above, may have not won one, but if just one of those Grand Finals were a win (and let not forget they drew one) everyone would be singing their praises. This is why I created the point system rather than based on personal opinion because it's a clearer indication of where teams have really been at.

 

[its free real estate]

Least impressive: Freo, obviously.

 

[Cicatriz]

What are the total wins/ win % for each team?

 

[saints_333]

What are the total wins/ win % for each team?

Think you could get that here-

https://afltables.com/afl/teams/allteams/overall_wl.html

 

[Vintage]

Urgh. Could we change it to 2000- ?

Would that help freo?

 

[HTT]

I think any ranking needs to have flags above all else that’s the sport. Any club would aspire to win the flag every second year and miss finals in the rest, before aspiring to lose the GF every year. But the latter earns more points.
So you’d have Hawthorn clear first, WC 2nd, then Geelong and Brisbane (plus anyone else with 3 flags) tiebroken by whatever points system you want.

 

[BarbieITFC]

Think you could get that here-

https://afltables.com/afl/teams/allteams/overall_wl.html

Looks expecting to see us bottom...apart from University...then sees the Saints’ record...makes Freo look almost respectable!!

 

[Kwality]

I would say Hawthorn are the most successful you can't argue with Premiership wins but I appreciate the effort you put into making this.

Intial reaction was the same, GFs alone but I'd suggest a GF loss has a value in a success table.
Is making the 4 a successful year, probably not good value but not a success.

No way just getting into the 8 is worthy of being called a success.

 

[Kwality]

Looks expecting to see us bottom...apart from University...then sees the Saints’ record...makes Freo look almost respectable!!

Did you factor in the number of chances/years in the comp? Port too, GWS & Suns more so.

 

[saints_333]

I think any ranking needs to have flags above all else that’s the sport. Any club would aspire to win the flag every second year and miss finals in the rest, before aspiring to lose the GF every year. But the latter earns more points.
So you’d have Hawthorn clear first, WC 2nd, then Geelong and Brisbane (plus anyone else with 3 flags) tiebroken by whatever points system you want.

But as I stated before with Brisbane for example, yes they have won 3 flags but for the majority of their time in the league they haven't even made the finals. Do we really call that a great success and deserving to be right near the top of the table? compared to other teams that may not have won as many but been up the top longer.

 

[saints_333]

Intial reaction was the same, GFs alone but I'd suggest a GF loss has a value in a success table.
Is making the 4 a successful year, probably not good value but not a success.

No way just getting into the 8 is worthy of being called a success.

That's why I only gave them 2 points and that's only in they didn't make the top 4 in the process so in my counting hardly any teams got any real benefit for this stat.

 

[Kwality]

But as I stated before with Brisbane for example, yes they have won 3 flags but for the majority of their time in the league they haven't even made the finals. Do we really call that a great success and deserving to be right near the top of the table? compared to other teams that may not have won as many but been up the top longer.

A 3peat causes me to rank Brisbane & the Hawks above my club (Eagles), prior to this thread, the Crows back to back screams success too. As I said before top 4 is not really success IMHO, success is not mediocrity IMHO.

Can argue with the points allocated here, I'd simply lift the bar, dont regard my Eagles as top of the pops.

 

[saints_333]

A 3peat causes me to rank Brisbane & the Hawks above my club (Eagles), prior to this thread, the Crows back to back screams success too. As I said before top 4 is not really success IMHO, success is not mediocrity IMHO.

Can argue with the points allocated here, I'd simply lift the bar, dont regard my Eagles as top of the pops.

yes but you have to remember that this is based upon the the last 30 years or so. Not just one run of 3 finals, if however great that is. I know everyone has their own opinion but since the teams around them on the list have also nearly one that many, if not more Brisbane deserve to be about 8th on the Ladder. Perhaps they do deserve to be above North or Essendon but once again they have won 2 themselves and not been as poor in between. Given the fact also that Brisbane probably won those three based on the back of the AFL expantion plan.

 

[saints_333]

A 3peat causes me to rank Brisbane & the Hawks above my club (Eagles), prior to this thread, the Crows back to back screams success too. As I said before top 4 is not really success IMHO, success is not mediocrity IMHO.

Can argue with the points allocated here, I'd simply lift the bar, dont regard my Eagles as top of the pops.

btw I don't see how with 4 Grand Final wins and most top 8's and nearly top 4's you don't rate West Coast that highly?

 

[Kwality]

that Brisbane probably won those three based on the back of the AFL expantion plan.

Cant buy that, when they kicked off the Vic clubs had 700+ players locked up, & then Brisbane got to choose 7 the AFL media called it priority, no mention of the #700+ already locked up, NO 701/2/3 were the priority,
Brisbane won fair & square & Eddies whinges were those of a losing club in a GF.
Apologies, really a different subject for another thread, just cant abide the attempts to water down what those guys achieved.

 

[bumsonseats]

Intial reaction was the same, GFs alone but I'd suggest a GF loss has a value in a success table.
Is making the 4 a successful year, probably not good value but not a success.

No way just getting into the 8 is worthy of being called a success.

That depends.......until a couple of years ago, just making the 8 was very much success for Richmond. All a matter of perspective

 

[Kwality]

btw I don't see how with 4 Grand Final wins and most top 8's and nearly top 4's you don't rate West Coast that highly?

Yep, its how I've always felt, dont feel I under rate what we've achieved, probably should have won more in the early 90s - remember Tim Lane writing us off in 2005, claiming we were just making up the numbers (2002/3/4) when we were overachieving to play finals.Success NO.

I feel the same way about the Cats, was it 3 in 5 years, some side, but ... it takes all sorts.
It takes some side to go back to back ... got a long way to go if 2019 is it.

 

[Kwality]

That depends.......until a couple of years ago, just making the 8 was very much success for Richmond. All a matter of perspective

They've got to a GF once only, Melbourne too, Freo ... one GF is better than none, clearly a win is why we play the game, a GF loss is the only other level of success.