Move the Essendon-Geelong match NOW !!!

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Dan26

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 23, 2000
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I notice the AFL has refused to move the Round 11 Essendon-Geelong clash from Colonial to the MCG.

The last time these two sides met when they were towards the top of the ladder was Round 11 1995. On that occasion, both teams entered the match with two losses each. 77,000 turned up. Last year 62,000 turned up after the Cats had sufferred 5 consecutive losses.

All this rubbish about giving Essendon a 5 day break is making a mountain out of a molehill. After the Tuesday Anzac Day clash with Collingwood in 1995, the Dons had only 5 days to prepare for a match against St.Kilda who had an 8 day break. Essendon won by 116 points. That same year, A Carlton-Richmond match was moved to a Sunday where it attracted 85,000, even though the Tigers had 5 days to prepare for their next match. The Tigers drew their next match with the Bombers on a Friday night and were coming on strong towards the end, despite a 5 day break.

This years Dons-Cats clash could attract up to 80,000 at the MCG. There still a month to go. MOVE THE MATCH !!!
 
yeah they should move it all right - to Shell Stadium . It's about time that the Bombers played there every other club, apart from North, has played there in the past five years
 
I don'y know about moving it to Shell Stadium, but perhaps it should be moved to the MCG.

Although being a Geelong home game, all the Geelong members (25,000) will get in and we might get a 50/50 crowd, whereas at the MCG the crowd will be mostly Essendon. Who knows it might work in our favour. The less Essendon supporters that can attend, the better for Geelong.
 

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The only appropriate venue for this match is the MCG. No if's and buts.

More Geelong supporters wil get and, and more Essendon supporters will get in.

There is a damn good reason why Essendon is never drawn to play at Shell Stadium. Essendon have too mnay supporters and the match will always be a lockout. It's pure common sense from the AFL to NEVER schedule Essendon and Geelong at Kardinia Park. It doesn't make sense.

Geelong gets it easy with the draw every year anyway. Here's why :

Non-Victorian clubs get a home ground advantage, sure, but they also have to travel 11 times a year. Most Victorian team only travel 4 or 5 times a year, but to make up for this, they DON'T get a home ground advantage. For example, Essendom and Richmond, may play 17 games in Victoria, but the majority of these don't present any advantage. So, the net result is most Non-victorian teams are treated as fairly as Victorian teams

Except Geelong.

The Cats, not only get a home ground advantage, but in ADDITION, they play the usual 4 or 5 games outside Victoria ONLY. They get the best of both worlds. They get, both a home ground advantage AS WELL AS mimimal interstate travel.

Having sad all that, I'm getting off topic. The only appropriate venue for Essendon-Geelong, when they are first and second on the ladder is the MCG. A clash between the first placed Bombers and second-placed Cats at the MCG would attract 80,000 people.

Where is the common-sense. MOVE THE MATCH !!!
 
From the lack of crowds so far this year the AFL would be thinking that Colonial wouldn't even be a sell out. It seems that the Melbourne public has gone footy shy all of a sudden.
 
Are you off your head Dan24, the Victorian and Non-Victorian clubs are both treated fairly. You are mad. So many examples to choose from. Last year the Eagles should have played their final against Carlton at Subiaco, not the MCG. Typical Victorian bias. I'm sorry but when the Non-Victorian teams go to Melb, the MCG and Colonial are hardly even playing fields. A crowd of screaming Essendon fans at the MCG is not an even playing field, there is a decided advantage. The plane trip over to the Eastern seaboard for WA teams also take it out of the players. So don't give me that rubbish that both the Vic and Non-Vic teams are even.
 
Dan24 What are you on, have you completely lost your mind?

How dare you say that Geelong get an easy draw every year. This year they have only got 7 games in Geelong, Carlton have 8 or 9 at Optus Oval.

Geelong only get to play at the MCG 3 times for the whole season, whereas every other Victorian team gets at least 5 or 6 games. Geelong has 5 interstate trips of which they have already played 3 in 7 rounds, and they have to go to Adelaide again in round 10. 4 out of 10 interstate is an easy start is it? Sydney don't even travel that much.

Geelong's draw reads as this. 7 in Geelong 6 at Colonial, 3 MCG, 5 Interstate and 1 at Optus Oval. Name 1 other Victorian team that travels to that many grounds throughout the year?

At least Geelong can say they have been able to keep their home ground not like St'Kilda, Bulldogs, Richmond, Hawthorn, North Melbourne, Collingwood and Essendon.

Thats why Geelong are in debt, because they are prepared to look after their own supporters not like every other Victorian club bar Carlton and Melbourne who have taken the soft option and gone to the MCG or Colonial.

A side like Richmond or Melbourne get upwards of 15 home games throughout the season, even though 4 are considered away games, they still get to play on their home ground. All the Interstate teams bar Brisbane get at least 12 home games if you consider the Derbys in SA and WA and Kangaroos v Sydney at the SCG. Brisbane still get 11 home games. Geelong on the other hand gets 7 games on their home ground. You call that fair?
 
Dan 24,

You said it all in the second paragraph of your second post, ....."and more Essendon supporters will get in (MCG) to see the game".

How many home grounds would the Essendon heirachy and its fans like?

Essendon board made the decision to move to Colonial, so stop whinging. (I am not a Geelong supporter)
 
Dan 24,

You said it all in the second paragraph of your second post, ....."and more Essendon supporters will get in (MCG) to see the game".

How many home grounds would the Essendon heirachy and its fans like?

Essendon board made the decision to move to Colonial, so stop whinging. (I am not a Geelong supporter)
 
Christian,

The Round 11 match is a Geelong home game. It would be playd at Colonail whether or not, Essendon moved there. However, the match has taken on "match of the season status" and should be noved.

It's pure common-sense.
 
In resposnse to Eagles rule, and Gocatsgo,

Firsly, Eagles rule, I agree that the Eagles were treated unfairly in the finals, but that was because of the MCG contract. The AFL WANTED that match at Subi, but that stupid contract prevented them from doing so. I am not biased. That contract is one of the most stupid things ever signed, and goes against the whole concept of equity and fairness. In 1996, West Coast should have hosted Essendon at the SUBI, but it was played at the MCG in front of 85,000 Bomber fans. Stupid. Don't call me biased, because you don't know.

If anything I think YOU are showing West Australian Bias.

You mention it is disadvantageous for the Eagles to be playing at Colonial in front of 50,000 screaming Essendon fans. True.

Did it also occur to you, that Essendon only get this avantage 4 times a year when they play a non-Victorian club. The rest of our matches are against other Victorian teams where there is NO home ground advantage.

Example, we had a home match agaisnt both Carlton and Richmond, both of which had NO advantage for us. Did you consider this ?

The Eagles get the massive advantage of playing 11 matches a year in front of their home crowd with a TRUE advantage.

The Victorian teams (except Carlton and Geelong) don't have this advantage. However that is made for by the fact that teams like Richmond and Essendon only play 5 matches a year outside Victoria. The net result is that Victorian teams, and Non Victorian teams are treated RELATIVELY evenly (every draw is different of course)

GOCATSGO. I am sorry buddy, but nothing you will say will make me think otherwise. Geelong gets a cushy draw every year. Yes, I admit Carlton gets a cushy draw too, you're right there.

So what if Geelong play 3 of their first 7 outside Victoria ? It all evens up in the end. This means that you play only 2 of your last 15 interstate. Did you think of it this way ? Obviously not.

The end result is that Geelong :

* Get 7 games with a true home ground advantage (9 last year and in previous years)

* Play only FIVE games out of 22 where they are at a disadvantage (these are the interstate games)

* The rest of Geelongs games would be considered neutral. Away games at Colonial and the MCG fall ito this category.

I mean, so what of Geelong have a tough start to the year ? This just means they have an easy second half to the year.

I look at the draw in three ways :

1.) Teams that get a true home ground advantage, but also have to travel every second week too. (All non-Victorian teams)

2.) Teans that DON'T have a home ground advantage, but to make up for this, they only play 4 or 5 matches a year "interstate" (Teams like Collingwood, Essendon, Richmond, St.Kilda, Bulldogs etc)

3.) Teams that get BOTH a home ground advantage PLUS minimal interstate travel (Carlton and Geelong fall into this category. They get a true Home ground advantage AND only travel 5 times a year)

At least when West Coast plays, the home ground advantage cancels out the disadvnatge of travelling. Geelong and Carlton get a similar home ground advantage to West Coast, but unlike the Eagles, most Gelong and Carlton "away" games are neutral. This means, Geelong and Carlton get a massive advatage evry single yar and its not fair.

Sorry, buddy......Geelong get a cushy draw. Hey lap it up, because it will help add a couple of wins to your home and away total. I don't really mind, because I quite like Geelong, but I'm telling you, the Cats always get a great draw.
 
To Eagles Rule,

An intersting fact about the draw :

WEST COAST :
*10 games where they get a home ground advantage.

*10 games where they are at a disadvantage

* 2 neutral (both agaist Fremantle)


ESSENDON :
*4 games where we get an advantage (against non-victorian sides in Melbourne)

* 4 games where we are at a disadvantge (when we travel interstate)

* 14 games that are Neutral (agaisnt other Victorian teams at the MCG or Colonial)

The net result is that the West Coast, and Essendon are treated equally in the draw. Both teams "advantageous" games are cancelled out by the exact same number of "dis-advantageous" games. Essendon play more neutral than West Coast do, but we also get less games where we get an advantage.

Now, lets look at Carlton :

CARLTON:
* 9 games where they get an advantage

* 4 games where they are at a disadvantage (when they travel interstate)

* 9 games that are neutral

NOW THAT IS A CUSHY DRAW !

Geelong also get more "advantageous" games than "dis-advantageous" games, meaning they get an advantage overall. This was much more pronounced in past years when the Cats played 9 or 10 games at Shell Stadium. This year they only play 7.

But the Cats stil get a better draw than most other teams.
 

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Will the match draw a big crowd after hawthorn has thrashed geelong next week and they go to pieces....

Perhaps the Essendon v Hawks game should be moved to the MCG... So more hawthorn supporters can get in.

I would have liked to have been playing essendon this week with the form our guys have been showing the past two weeks

How's that for Arrogance ?
 
More convoluted and academic arguements about which club gets the better draw - Yawn !

Fact is, every club gets handed an unfair draw because no club gets to -play all the other clubs twice - once at your home ground and once at their home ground - no ifs, no buts, no maybes, no compromises.

Lets have a 30 week H&A season as soon as possible and put an end to these esoteric theories about which team gets the best draw - its dumb and boring.
 
Pessimistic,

While I respect Hawthorn a lot for their courage and heart, they dont stand a chance against the Bombers, I'm afraid. That is my un-biased opnion. I know you are only stirring, and it's all good-natured, but you don't seem willing to give the Bombers the credit they deserve.

While going undefeated in the home and away doesn't guarantee a Grand Final win, it DOES guarantee one thing. it gurantees that you are the best team.

Let's put aside the winning of the actual Grand Final match, for one moment, shall we.

Essendon, I believe are on the verge of becoming the greatest side in the 103 year history of the AFL-VFL.

Forget "eras" (for example Hawthorns great era)........I'm talking about one specific season.

Essendon (I'm being un-biased here, I'm just calling it as I see it), are a team with no apparent weaknesses (maybe the ruck if Barnes goes down).

They have the best defender in the competition this year (Fletcher), who is young and at the peak of his carrer. Two champions (Hird and Lloyd), the best attack in the competiton, the best defence in the competition, a fantastic, hard-running, tough midfield (Johnson, Johnson, Mercuri, Caracella, Herffernan) and some great defenders in Solomon, Hardwick, Wellman.

Oh, I've forgotten Mercuri and Long. Couple of pretty good players. Not to mention Alessio floating around down the forward line.

Oh, and Misiti's not a bad player either, if you didn't know.

And the scary thing is there is heaps I've missed out.

You seemd determined to point out that Essendon may not make (or win) the Grand Fianl. We all know this could hapen. Yes, we all know that the best team doesn't necessarily win the GF, so I don't know how relevant it is pointing that fact out to everyone.

West Coast in 1991 were the best team of the 1990's and they didn't even win the Grand Final that year. Yes, West Coast in 1991 were better than Carlton in 1995. Three losses in the home and away (all by less than 10 points), and a percentage of 162 backs this up.

I've noticed the Ansett Cup winner usually starts the season slowly. Esssendon DID start the season slowly, yet they have still won evey match, the closest margin being 24 points. Now that Essendon have strted to hit form, look at the ease with which they are winning.

Having said that, i think Melbourne this week is a real chance to beat the Bombers. They beat us last year (nearly beat us twice), and they finished 14th !! They match up well agaisnt the Dons, and are a real show.

But this Essendon team I believe is better than the 1985 team. Sure they may not win the Grand Final, but that doesn't mean they are not the best team.
 
Bloodstained Angel,

I'm another subscriber to the 30 round draw. Unless that happens, it will NEVER be fair. I'm with you 100%

But I have to take issue with some of the "so-called facts" made by gocatsgo

In regards to your following statement :-

"Geelong's draw reads as this. 7 in Geelong 6 at Colonial, 3 MCG, 5 Interstate and 1 at Optus Oval. Name 1 other Victorian team that travels to that many grounds throughout the year?"

That was your choice. If your club chose to split your matches between two home grounds then suffer the consequences.

"At least Geelong can say they have been able to keep their home ground not like St'Kilda, Bulldogs, Richmond, Hawthorn, North Melbourne, Collingwood and Essendon.

Thats why Geelong are in debt, because they are prepared to look after their own supporters not like every other Victorian club bar Carlton and Melbourne who have taken the soft option and gone to the MCG or Colonial."

Was that a joke?
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The clubs you have mentioned have moved for a number of reasons, including financial constraints, ground was not up to league standard, unable to fit supporters into ground, league shutting stadium down, etc.

Yes, you have managed to keep your ground, but the rest of us have managed to keep out of debt and have looked after their supporters. Hardly the "soft option". Besides, I would have thought a club that gets itself over $6 million in debt would take some responsibility for their actions.
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Sainter, Dont I recall a certain SOS a few years back. At least Geelong people didn't have to put money into rattling tins to save their club unlike Footscray, Richmond and yourself.

What about merger talk, Melbourne Hawks, (Or the Dawks) Fitzroy Bulldogs (Or whatever they were going to be called)

And who could forget poor old Fitzroy, every time Geelong played them, I found myself putting money into the tin to help out.

Give the debt thing a break for once HEY!

The fact is they've got it down to $3 million and in a couple of years it will be wiped out, especially if membership keeps going the way it is.

Unlike some teams who shall remain nameless.
 
Sorry Sainter, I have to take issue with that about teams leaving their ground.

You mentioned no up to AFL standard, not good enough for supporters, not good enough facilities, not good enough surface etc.

Why were they not up to standard? because every team bar Carlton and Geelong were too cheap to upgrade their ground to a decent standard, and took the soft option by moving to the MCG or Colonial.

If Bulldogs, Collingwood, Essendon and St'kilda were still playing at their respective home grounds, what would the debt be at those clubs? Carlton aren't in debt because they've got old Pigs Arse backing them.

At least the debts manageable, not like at certain clubs where they wouldn't survive if it wasn't for the backing of Michael Gudinski and Friends.
 
Yes, we did have a Save Our Saints campaign. Worked a treat too!

But lets not get off track!

Firstly, please do not attempt to justify your clubs debt by attacking those clubs with enough sense to do the right thing by their supporters.

Perhaps you may have realised being a Geelong resident, but Shell Stadium is situated in Geelong, where the majority of your supporters reside. While you cash in and play 4 games at Colonial to reduce that debt of yours, you know as well as i know that Geelong HAD to keep playing at KKK Park. So it really is rather immature to attack clubs like Collingwood, Essendon, Richmond, etc for leaving their home grounds. Once again, why is it soft for a team to remain profitable and provide great facilities for their supporters?

Can you please spare us the talk that "at least Geelong look after their supporters"

And I do have to agree with Dan24. You really do have the best of both worlds. Guaranteed 7 games in Geelong against interstate clubs + St Kilda and Melbourne each year. You have 4 games at Colonial to make some money. Plus you have your away games at the MCG that you hold so dear to your heart.


As for Michael Gudinski bailing St Kilda out. I honestly don't know where you get your facts from. We recently just started a foundation where many of high profile supporters raise money for the club. Similar to Richmonds "Jack Dyer Foundation". But I suppose I could say the same thing about the Bank of Melbourne/Bendigo Bank (or whatever bank) for saving you $2 million. Don't worry, we still know how much debt you would be in without the help of the banks.
 
Did i hear correctly that St.Kilda has the largest number of *** supporters in the league in their ranks ? Not surprisingly Sainter has to act like Molly Meldrum in order to discredit someone who doesn't share his views. I suspect Sainter that all Saint Baboons such as yourself want to play in that happy little playground tip called Moorabbin, but the fact is that place is a dump and should be burned down.
 
Geelong4Eva, of course I did not state that we had the most number of supporters in the league.

Do they have optometrists in Geelong?
Or English teachers?

And no, most of us supporters realise that Moorabbin is not suitable as an AFL venue but will always remain as the spiritual home of the club. As a matter of fact, I would hardly call a stadium that forces away supporters and members to fork out $33 for a reserved seat or else make them stand in the forward pocket as an overly inviting venue either.
 
Dan get serious for a minute, greatest team for one season in history.

They wouldnt live with the Hawks of 88/9 or the Dons of 84/5.

In an era where the eveness of the competion is supposed to be accepted the Dons have managed to get two or three more class players than the rest and a bit more depth.

Fletcher and Wellman wouldnt get near Dunstall and Brereton. Lloyd and Lucas on Mew and Langford?

Who would you rather in midfield, Baker and Williams or Misiti and Denham.

Your side doesnt have a true rover, and 6'3 ruckman who Dear and Madden both used to destroy, a Short back line aside from Fletcher. Pretty good forwards and some handy flankers. Whats in the midfield aside forom an aging genius in Long and an up and down centreman? Wheres the class wings no Dipper or Neagle there mate.

They are the best going around at the minute, no worries but to compare them to truly awesome teams they would be hammered.

By the way the Gee/Dons game is how a lot of people would feel if it was a dons home game and the opposition couldnt get in. Your complaing that its unfair to Essendon fans, what about when its an Esseedon home game and whoever ther are playing that week cant get in? So get used to how the other half live when they have to play Essendon at Colonical.
 
Grendel,

How could you say Fletcher and Wellman wouldn't get near Dunstall and Brereton ?????

OK, Dunstall, is one of the all time great full-forwards, but Fletcher is currently the AFL's number one defender. He will be the All-Australian full-back this year. If there is one CURRENT player who could hold Dunstall to three or four goals it would be Dustin Fletcher in his current form.

Lloyd is a better player than Paul Samlon (1985 version). Sure Salmon, these days has acheived more over his carrer, but that doesn't mean he is a better player. It just means he has played more !! Remember, Coleman, was the full-forward in the team of the century, despite playing only 98 games !!

My point is that, at full-forward, Essendon is better off in 2000, than we were in 1985. Although admittedly, Salmon only played a few games in 1985 in his comeback from knee surgery.

Essendon's forward line currently consists of Lloyd (who is on target for 100 goals this season), Hird (an absloute champion), Lucas (the equivalent of someone like Leon Baker. He's a different sort of player to Baker, but just as good. Lucas is a cross between Merrett and Baker !). We also have Mercuri (a sensational player, runner up in the Brownlow), Rioli (after he comes back from injury), Bewick (OFF THE BENCH!!!)

We have then got Alessio, to pop down in the forward line and we can pinch hit with any of about 10 other players.

The 1985 side had a terriffic run with injuries. The 2000 model has more depth. In 1986, Esendon's depth was tested (we had an horrific injury run, admittedly) and we slumped to 12-10 at the end of the home and away.

I'd back the 2000 side against the 1985 side anyday, despite what may happen in September. I mean, I've been followinig the Bombers for nearly 20 years and I have fond memores of the 1985 side, but I think the 2000 side is better. Yes, the 1985 side was one of the greatest of all time.

There may not be a true rover, but you don't need one. We have about TEN (that's right 10 !!!!) mid-sized running players who can play there, or anywhere. Players like Solomon, J Johnson, M Johnson, Hardwick, Misiti, Denham, Heffernan, Blumfield, Long etc, etc.

Unless you are an Essendon supporter, I don't think people realise how good Heffernan is. He has so much poise and balance. He is better than what everyone thinks. Opposition supporters wouldn't know, but Essendon supporters would realise how good he is. Ditto for Soloman. Soloman has so much courage, and he is extrememly skilled too. Ditto for Blumfield.

The 1989 Hawthorn side was better than the 1985 Essendon side, and I'd like to see the 2000 Essendon side up against the Hawks of '89. That would be one hell of a match.
 

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