Analysis Move the Magnets

jjami15

Premiership Player
Joined
Jul 16, 2011
Posts
3,943
Likes
4,182
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Thread starter #1
Currently at the bye we are sitting 1-11 and I don't want to sound like a pessimist but I think we might not make the finals this year. From my untrained eye it looks like there hasn't been a lot of change on field during game day apart from when there are injuries. Mark Robinson's article with Greg ' Diesel' Williams raised an interesting insight in that coaches don't really coach but talk more about statistics and structures. Here is a chance to do a Kevin Sheedy and 'Move the Magnets' to see what changes you would make on field and with personnel.

Personally, my team would look like this
B: Witherden Gardiner Eagles
HB: Hodge Andrews Cox
C: McCluggage Berry Cutler
HF: Rayner Hipwood Beams
F: Taylor McStay Zorko
R: Big O Bastinac Mathieson
Taylor, Rich, Allison, Robertson

Not a big change granted but some definite omissions with the game V Bombers with Lester, Keays, Bailey, Martin, Mayes and Bundy as outs. Martin is the number 1 Ruck but for where we sit I don't think that the current set up is working especially in the forward line. The only reason Big O is in is to see how his game develops over the backhalf of the season and then to take stock list management wise at the end of the year. Zorko and Beams to play more forward minutes as V the Dogs we did get to see how dangerous they are up there. They would still go through the midfield but with 60:40 split and only one at the time. Does place pressure on Bastinac, Berry and Matho but it's also time to see how Bastinac and Matho stand up and again take stock at the end of the year. Robertson's role to change as well and become a run with player with the oppositions best mid which is something I believe he started to do at the start of the year. Cox and Allison are in just to pump some games into them with specific KPI's to be met over the last part of the season. Eagles I believe will be over his injury next game and when Robbo is over his toe I would bring him back in at the expense of Bastinac or Rich. Looking forward to seeing others thoughts with their teams.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

jason pm

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 31, 2015
Posts
13,458
Likes
24,375
Location
Walking distance
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Fortitude Valley Diehards. Chelsea.
#2
Rich is way too inconsistent and Martin is over rated (IMO) I know I am a bit of a lone voice on Stef, generally I think most ruckmen are though.

Alex Witherden, Harris Andrews, Jacob Allison.
Luke Hodge, Darcy Gardner, Zac Bailey.

Oscar McInerney, Dayne Zorko, Jarrod Berry.
Hugh McCluggage, Mitch Robinson, Rhys Matheison.

Cedric Cox, Eric Hipwood, Dayne Beams.
Cameron Rayner, Daniel McStay, Lewy Taylor.

Nick Robertson(def), Sam Mayes(outside mid/wing/fwd), Allen Christensen(floater), Tom Cuter(outside mid/wing/fwd).

We desperately need run and carry out of defense, hence Allison and give Bailey a crack down there. Give Matho a go. I'd like to see Matho, Rayner and Robinson in regularly for the center bounces, opposition seem to stream out of there every week, something is seriously amiss with our set up from the center bounces. Play Beams 50/50 fwd/mid. Cedric Cox to be told to concentrate on using his speed to harass their back 6.
 

carnthemlions

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Posts
9,622
Likes
9,790
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
San Francisco 49ers, Hertha Berlin
#3
Rich is way too inconsistent and Martin is over rated (IMO) I know I am a bit of a lone voice on Stef, generally I think most ruckmen are though.

Alex Witherden, Harris Andrews, Jacob Allison.
Luke Hodge, Darcy Gardner, Zac Bailey.

Oscar McInerney, Dayne Zorko, Jarrod Berry.
Hugh McCluggage, Mitch Robinson, Rhys Matheison.

Cedric Cox, Eric Hipwood, Dayne Beams.
Cameron Rayner, Daniel McStay, Lewy Taylor.

Nick Robertson(def), Sam Mayes(outside mid/wing/fwd), Allen Christensen(floater), Tom Cuter(outside mid/wing/fwd).

We desperately need run and carry out of defense, hence Allison and give Bailey a crack down there. Give Matho a go. I'd like to see Matho, Rayner and Robinson in regularly for the center bounces, opposition seem to stream out of there every week, something is seriously amiss with our set up from the center bounces. Play Beams 50/50 fwd/mid. Cedric Cox to be told to concentrate on using his speed to harass their back 6.
Martin isn't just our ruckman, he's also our most consistent inside midfielder (and most consistent player in general). Do you think most of our clearances are just going to magically appear out of thin air without him in the side? We'd get absolutely smashed.
 

davemc_lions

All Australian
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Posts
884
Likes
573
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
#4
Andrews at CHF or full forward.. yes you rob who will probably be one of the best backman running around.
Although our talls just do not work week to week. He reads the ball better then any other player in our team and actually can mark the ball.
You do not win matches from 20 spoils.

I throw around a few players personally move Rich and Mayes forward. Hipwood to a wing who floats forward.
Rotate the bench through players from the Magoos give each 3 weeks see if any make it.
Someone needs to kick some of the players up the bum Bell and Bastinac you need to be clearly BOG in the Magoos if you want a spot and another contract
If Skinner or Payne come back and start playing put one of those in the backline.

B: Witherden Gardiner Hodge
HB: Christensen Eagles Cox
C: McCluggage Berry Hipwood
HF: Rich Cultler Beams
F: Mayes Andrews McStay
R: Martin Zorko Rayner
Taylor, Big O, Bailey, Robertson
 
Joined
Nov 27, 2006
Posts
2,559
Likes
5,524
Location
Melbourne - once Darwin.
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
#5
If Sam Skinner can play a solid month of NEAFL I would be looking to get him into side sooner rather than later - he might be our answer at CHB or he could play Full back and allow Harris to go to CHB. Let's just hope he gets a good run at it and is overdue some luck.
 

jason pm

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 31, 2015
Posts
13,458
Likes
24,375
Location
Walking distance
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Fortitude Valley Diehards. Chelsea.
#6
Martin isn't just our ruckman, he's also our most consistent inside midfielder (and most consistent player in general). Do you think most of our clearances are just going to magically appear out of thin air without him in the side? We'd get absolutely smashed.
I've been through my Stefan Martin thoughts many times, in short IMO he has a few standout weaknesses-
1) He is nigh on useless resting forward.
2) His disposal by foot is shambolic unless it is a long kick down the line to a contest.
3) He panics and is very hesitant with ball in hand, often sells a dump to a team mate.
4) He is very rarely able to pick up a rolling ball
5) He shirks contests.
 

SizeMatters

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Posts
12,592
Likes
11,309
Location
Reality
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
#7
I've been through my Stefan Martin thoughts many times, in short IMO he has a few standout weaknesses-
1) He is nigh on useless resting forward.
2) His disposal by foot is shambolic unless it is a long kick down the line to a contest.
3) He panics and is very hesitant with ball in hand, often sells a dump to a team mate.
4) He is very rarely able to pick up a rolling ball
5) He shirks contests.
I agree, but I also think you are underselling his ruckwork and follow up centre clearance ability. Sure they aren't great clean centre clearances like a NN can do but he gets the ball moving forward. Still would have liked us to go harder at Witts two seasons ago who was on our radar... massive mistake by the club IMO to let him slide at the last minute.
 

Dylan12

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Posts
15,707
Likes
12,919
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
#8
I’ll preface this by saying I like Coach Fagan a lot, particularly the manner in which he promotes the club, his players, our future etc., however, I have yet to see any evidence that he is a good match day coach / strategist or often selects the right squad for a given opposition. Until the latter changes (or another senior assistant that is an adept match day coach is brought in to assist Fagan) I don’t think his tenure is assured beyond next year unless a lot of issues are resolved.
 

cotter101

Bigfooty Enforcer
Joined
Nov 11, 2010
Posts
10,607
Likes
7,623
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
#10
Gardiner Eagles Robertson
Witherden Andrews Allison

Cutler Beams Zorko

Rayner Hipwood Cox
Cameron Walker McStay

Foll: O-Mac, Robinson, Bailey.

Berry, Clugg, Taylor, Mayes.
 

jackess

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
32,446
Likes
24,924
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
#11
I don't think I'd make any changes apart from Robbo and Cameron when fit.

Maybe Bastinac for Oscar for a bit more versatility.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

jjami15

Premiership Player
Joined
Jul 16, 2011
Posts
3,943
Likes
4,182
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Thread starter #12
Cameron is out for the rest of the year otherwise he would have been first picked almost. This is more of an exercise for where we are and what we could do for the remainder of the year
I’ll preface this by saying I like Coach Fagan a lot, particularly the manner in which he promotes the club, his players, our future etc., however, I have yet to see any evidence that he is a good match day coach / strategist or often selects the right squad for a given opposition. Until the latter changes (or another senior assistant that is an adept match day coach is brought in to assist Fagan) I don’t think his tenure is assured beyond next year unless a lot of issues are resolved.
i don't believe that the majority of today's coaches are equipped as 'game day coaches'.
 

lionshine

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Posts
12,954
Likes
11,132
Location
Queensland
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Lleyton Hewitt, Cleveland Cavaliers
#15
I'd like Cox in the side after the bye and I'd like to see him given an extended run in the seniors to find his feet. We need someone with his talent and the pace and skill he brings.
 

Cockliff38

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Sep 9, 2012
Posts
5,715
Likes
8,019
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
NE Patriots, LA Lakers
#16
I’ll preface this by saying I like Coach Fagan a lot, particularly the manner in which he promotes the club, his players, our future etc., however, I have yet to see any evidence that he is a good match day coach / strategist or often selects the right squad for a given opposition. Until the latter changes (or another senior assistant that is an adept match day coach is brought in to assist Fagan) I don’t think his tenure is assured beyond next year unless a lot of issues are resolved.
There is no doubt there are questions about Fagan's match-day capabilities. As you say he is brilliant for our young group and I love what he's doing across the club, but I think there will be a different coach who helps us go all the way.
 

jason pm

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 31, 2015
Posts
13,458
Likes
24,375
Location
Walking distance
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Fortitude Valley Diehards. Chelsea.
#17
There is no doubt there are questions about Fagan's match-day capabilities. As you say he is brilliant for our young group and I love what he's doing across the club, but I think there will be a different coach who helps us go all the way.
:(
 

Comeback Lions

All Australian
Joined
Jul 2, 2017
Posts
999
Likes
1,438
Location
Sydney
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Sydney Uni Flames
#18
Does place pressure on Bastinac, Berry and Matho but it's also time to see how Bastinac and Matho stand up and again take stock at the end of the year. Looking forward to seeing others thoughts with their teams.
I'd like to see Matho, Rayner and Robinson in regularly for the center bounces, opposition seem to stream out of there every week, something is seriously amiss with our set up from the center bounces.
Don't have time to do a whole team at the moment and appreciate your work. Matho is picked in the first two teams and I have concerns about his ability to play midfield in the ones. Not his contested work, which is great, but his ability to run defensively and offensively, to get to contests, to chase players, to run all day. I'm not sure he has the speed to play as a pressure small forward, and although he might make a small defender, it doesn't really feel like a good fit. I think he's a player without a real position at the moment and although he was working on his running pre-season, I don't think it's there yet. I can't see him being able to stop them streaming out of the centre either. Anyway, my thoughts for what they're worth. I hope I'm wrong.
 

jjami15

Premiership Player
Joined
Jul 16, 2011
Posts
3,943
Likes
4,182
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Thread starter #19
Don't have time to do a whole team at the moment and appreciate your work. Matho is picked in the first two teams and I have concerns about his ability to play midfield in the ones. Not his contested work, which is great, but his ability to run defensively and offensively, to get to contests, to chase players, to run all day. I'm not sure he has the speed to play as a pressure small forward, and although he might make a small defender, it doesn't really feel like a good fit. I think he's a player without a real position at the moment and although he was working on his running pre-season, I don't think it's there yet. I can't see him being able to stop them streaming out of the centre either. Anyway, my thoughts for what they're worth. I hope I'm wrong.
This obviously is a concern for Matho as well looking at the extra running that he did at the start of the season. I just think that there differences between running laps to playing actual games. For me personally its not only to have him in the team to further develop his abilities but to release Beams or Zorko to the forward line.
 

blynd_freddie

Roughed Scuffed & Tuft
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Posts
6,620
Likes
5,138
Location
in the August fog of '71
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
The Bulls, Pamplona
#20
I’ll preface this by saying I like Coach Fagan a lot, particularly the manner in which he promotes the club, his players, our future etc., however, I have yet to see any evidence that he is a good match day coach / strategist or often selects the right squad for a given opposition. Until the latter changes (or another senior assistant that is an adept match day coach is brought in to assist Fagan) I don’t think his tenure is assured beyond next year unless a lot of issues are resolved.
Going to disagree, in part - I think part of the match day coaching is observing and reacting to match ups and to change the direction/flow of the game. In the 12 games that we have played this year, we have won 5 drawn 1 second halves and have a second half For/Against percentage of 98.69. Sure, some might say the opposition are putting the cue in the rack but I beg to differ. Over the last 4 seasons we had ONLY WON 20 second halves. 4 in 2017, 5 in 2016, 6 in 2015 and 5 in 2014 - for us to already have 5 'wins' on the board says something to me.

On the other hand, to have not won a first quarter this year suggests our initial/starting strategy requires some tweaking. for the record, in the same 2017-2014 period we had only won 24 first quarters, I wonder if after the bye the planning emphasis will be on the first half with 2nd half blow-outs being the norm? I hope not.
 

BigCat2

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Sep 10, 2006
Posts
5,185
Likes
1,649
Location
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
#21
There is no doubt there are questions about Fagan's match-day capabilities. As you say he is brilliant for our young group and I love what he's doing across the club, but I think there will be a different coach who helps us go all the way.
Fagan is a coach in the sense he's there as a team manager, providing leadership, develop players and culture of the group, and overall game plan.

He will have to make some match day decisions, but there will be lots of input from Danny Daly, David Noble and other assistant coaches.

Don't forget - it is easy to change match ups the moment you're getting torched, or throw a couple behind the ball when the opposition gets on a roll. That's what we would be doing if we're a finals contender and trying to maximise result. Fagan instead is clearly looking at the big picture, and providing education to our players. Your opposition is giving you a bath? Good - stick to it and see how you can work through the situation. Otherwise it'll just continually be a weakness if you can't overcome it.

Obviously there'll be a balance struck - no point getting your confidence completely shot when you're unsupported and getting a touch up. But we'd be more inclined to stick with the same structure or match ups for longer. For those who say Fagan is slow to react- I think this is the reason.
 

Clubbeta

Senior List
Joined
Oct 15, 2011
Posts
217
Likes
84
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
#22
Move Andrews forward?
Yeah I think it's a great idea and one I have had myself. I know he is one of if not the best key defender in the league but I think he has all the tools to be the best key forward in the league to. I would take him being the best key forward over key defender any day of the week. Plus I think we are well stocked for other capable defensive options. It's a risk worth trying especially at 1-11.
 

LongLion

Club Legend
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Posts
1,154
Likes
1,686
Location
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
#23
Yeah I think it's a great idea and one I have had myself. I know he is one of if not the best key defender in the league but I think he has all the tools to be the best key forward in the league to. I would take him being the best key forward over key defender any day of the week. Plus I think we are well stocked for other capable defensive options. It's a risk worth trying especially at 1-11.
I agree that he would most likely be a great forward BUT 'don't fix what ain't broke' so leave him where he is pleeeaase
 
Joined
Feb 17, 2016
Posts
81
Likes
632
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
#24
I’ll preface this by saying I like Coach Fagan a lot, particularly the manner in which he promotes the club, his players, our future etc., however, I have yet to see any evidence that he is a good match day coach / strategist or often selects the right squad for a given opposition. Until the latter changes (or another senior assistant that is an adept match day coach is brought in to assist Fagan) I don’t think his tenure is assured beyond next year unless a lot of issues are resolved.
Uh did you not watch the Hawks game at all? First quarter getting completely towelled. Merret runs out and tells the wingers - Cutler, Lewy and McLuggage to press high and compress that 45 degree angled kick the Hawks were using to carve us up from the back line. Suddenly Hawks disposal is complete shit. We cause a tonne of forward half turnovers and isolate McStay/McInery/Cameron/Hipwood in goals? Best bit of coaching I have seen on the day
 

DanT7

Club Legend
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Posts
1,515
Likes
760
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
#25
Moving the magnets...

FB: Gardiner, Andrews, Hodge
HB: Robertson, Bailey, Christensen
C: Hipwood, Zorko, Cutler
HF: CBeams, McStay, Rich
FF: DBeams, McInerney, Witherden
Foll: Martin, Berry, Rayner
Int: Mayes, McCluggage, Taylor, Cox

Out: Lester, Keays
In: CBeams, Cox

CBeams, Rich & Mayes to HF. Try to improve forward 50 entries.
DBeams to forward. He can mark and kick goals. Bit of a liability defensively.
Christensen has done okay in spells in defence.
DBeams, CBeams, Rich, Robertson to have stints in midfield. Even Cox, Bailey, Mayes. Play Mayes inside a bit for a bit more initiation to tough. Seems to have forgotten how to play strong.
Move Witherden forward, give Bailey a few games behind the ball.
Move Hipwood to the wing.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Top Bottom