Moving Australia to 100% Renewable Energy would actually SAVE us money.

So have you sold your soul to a petrochemical company yet?

  • No, but I'm hoping they'll give me a call any day now!

  • Nah but I know a guy who knows a guy who has his snout in the trough. its a juicy racket!

  • Nope I stick to intelligent design & anti-vac, denying climate change is too loopy even for me

  • Yes and I would do it again! Money will buy me happiness so I crave MORE MORE MORE

  • Yes, but everyone else is doing it and the world's stuffed anyway and.... God I hate myself.


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jim boy

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it is important to compare apples with apples
Apples? What on earth on you talking about? You've given the quite absurd statement that hydrogen is many times more dangerous than a ammonia nitrate - a substance commonly used in bomb making. If you want to compare with petrol, be my guest, it is probably on a similar level - although most studies say hydrogen is safer - as hydrogen is not poisonous, will float upwards and disperse, has a lower burning temperature and needs a lot more oxygen to explode than fossil fuels.
 

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TheBrownDog
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Apples? What on earth on you talking about? You've given the quite absurd statement that hydrogen is many times more dangerous than a ammonia nitrate - a substance commonly used in bomb making. If you want to compare with petrol, be my guest, it is probably on a similar level - although most studies say hydrogen is safer - as hydrogen is not poisonous, will float upwards and disperse, has a lower burning temperature and needs a lot more oxygen to explode than fossil fuels.

1) the plan for hydrogen is to be converted to ammonia so it can travel but this is not the risky bit of handing hydrogen.
2) the current uses of hydrogen are for refining
3) the future planned use of hydrogen requires significant handling in its dangerous for being liquid or gas
4) this increased dangerous form is currently a small market yet we see significant deaths each year

I like hydrogen over batteries as the E-waste will be massive for batteries but there is no way a liquid hydrogen pipeline will ever be built near populations. This means ports, storage, conversion and production facilities will need to be rethought.
 

Ned_Flanders

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1) the plan for hydrogen is to be converted to ammonia so it can travel but this is not the risky bit of handing hydrogen.
2) the current uses of hydrogen are for refining
3) the future planned use of hydrogen requires significant handling in its dangerous for being liquid or gas
4) this increased dangerous form is currently a small market yet we see significant deaths each year

I like hydrogen over batteries as the E-waste will be massive for batteries but there is no way a liquid hydrogen pipeline will ever be built near populations. This means ports, storage, conversion and production facilities will need to be rethought.

There's a lot of good work in batteries and hydrogen that will hopefully see the environmental issues tackled soon.

On batteries, I'm pleased many options are being heavily researched, and the obsession of "one size fits all" seems to be over. Even if we still need lithium for consumer goods, replacing it potentially for industry, vehicles, and banks is a big win.

Hydrogen I'm a fan of, but the resent Hyundai announcement is a concern. Details are vague, but looks like they may be downgrading their hydrogen engine development program
 

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TheBrownDog
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There's a lot of good work in batteries and hydrogen that will hopefully see the environmental issues tackled soon.

On batteries, I'm pleased many options are being heavily researched, and the obsession of "one size fits all" seems to be over. Even if we still need lithium for consumer goods, replacing it potentially for industry, vehicles, and banks is a big win.

Hydrogen I'm a fan of, but the resent Hyundai announcement is a concern. Details are vague, but looks like they may be downgrading their hydrogen engine development program

The issue might be more related to the cost of hydrogen as much as hyundai itself.

FFI's internal analysis is hydrogen is currently competitive at a $5+ per litre diesel price


but I'm disappointed such a large quality manufacturer is looking elsewhere
 

Ned_Flanders

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The issue might be more related to the cost of hydrogen as much as hyundai itself.

FFI's internal analysis is hydrogen is currently competitive at a $5+ per litre diesel price


but I'm disappointed such a large quality manufacturer is looking elsewhere

Its not quite clear yet

They have reassigned the plant, but they haven't cancelled the project.
 

SaintsSeptember

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The issue might be more related to the cost of hydrogen as much as hyundai itself.

FFI's internal analysis is hydrogen is currently competitive at a $5+ per litre diesel price


but I'm disappointed such a large quality manufacturer is looking elsewhere

I believe that the technology for running on Hydrogen is not that difficult, and many companies that have researched it may believe they have enough knowlege if it ever becomes a viable fuel.
 

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TheBrownDog
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I believe that the technology for running on Hydrogen is not that difficult, and many companies that have researched it may believe they have enough knowlege if it ever becomes a viable fuel.

Let’s reassess in 5 years but I’m a believer

I’m personally getting behind silicon anode development to support the hydrogen industry
 

SaintsSeptember

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Let’s reassess in 5 years but I’m a believer

I’m personally getting behind silicon anode development to support the hydrogen industry

I saw a seminar about a working Hydrogen car ( a Holden I think ) which had been developed by a professor at one of the Universities ( Perhaps Melbourne ).
I can't remember the details, it was in the 1980s.

Really there were no problems with the car running and it was a successful project as far as demonstrating that a car could easily run on Hydrogen, with very little issues regarding pollution etc.

At the time the problems were regarding cost and storage.
Hydrogen is very difficult ( ie , energy intensive ) to liquefy and storage as a compressed gas greatly limits the range of a vehicle.
Of course , if those hurdles are ever overcome, then the right infrastructure would need to be developed to deliver it.

However:

If we had a system with huge amounts of Solar and Wind, we would have a large fluctuating electricity supply. Ideally this would be far greater capacity than the actual 24 hour electricity demand. ( Because 100% capacity would hardly ever be reached on any given day ).

When producing more electricity than required the surplus can be used for :
Pumping water uphill into Dams ( Snowy II ). ( Hydro electric when there is not enough electricity ).
Water Desalination.
Electrolytic production of Hydrogen stored in large tanks. ( Large scale Hydrogen Fuel cells when there is not enough electricity ).

Step one is to keep building renewables, and that IS happening, but its going to be a long time before we can move to step 2 which is why i think we should be planning some interim backup using fossil fuels.