Science/Environment Moving Australia to 100% Renewable Energy would actually SAVE us money.

[Kwality]

An Age journalist...not sure he is credible.?

Good to see Reneweconomy chasing the costs through, in that case the extra cost was a cool $80 mil.

“(Dundonnell) was deliberately developed with a transmission connection into a strong part of the electricity grid, reducing future downside from congestion and changes to marginal loss factors, and we are excited to be on track with our largest ever renewable generation investment”.

Tilt spent $80 million on a 500kV substation and 38kms of 220kV overhead transmission line – built by Ausnet – to link into the state’s main 500kV transmission backbone.

The wind farm – located 23kms north east of Mortlake, is currently operating at an initial “hold point” of 5MW as testing and commissioning continues, effectively operating a single turbine. It hopes to reach a 100MW hold point within a few weeks and then be producing at full capacity from its 80 turbines by the end of the third quarter of the calendar year.

Huge Dundonnell wind farm begins production in Victoria

Huge Dundonnell wind farm begins output in Victoria, one of the few large scale wind and solar projects to connect on schedule.

reneweconomy.com.au

The Chinese appear to favour coal over renewables (they use all options), dont buy the 'renewables are cheaper'. At the very least we should question what has become conventional thinking in Aus.

 

[DAlembert]

Good to see Reneweconomy chasing the costs through, in that case the extra cost was a cool $80 mil.

“(Dundonnell) was deliberately developed with a transmission connection into a strong part of the electricity grid, reducing future downside from congestion and changes to marginal loss factors, and we are excited to be on track with our largest ever renewable generation investment”.

Tilt spent $80 million on a 500kV substation and 38kms of 220kV overhead transmission line – built by Ausnet – to link into the state’s main 500kV transmission backbone.

The wind farm – located 23kms north east of Mortlake, is currently operating at an initial “hold point” of 5MW as testing and commissioning continues, effectively operating a single turbine. It hopes to reach a 100MW hold point within a few weeks and then be producing at full capacity from its 80 turbines by the end of the third quarter of the calendar year.

Huge Dundonnell wind farm begins production in Victoria

Huge Dundonnell wind farm begins output in Victoria, one of the few large scale wind and solar projects to connect on schedule.

reneweconomy.com.au

The Chinese appear to favour coal over renewables (they use all options), dont buy the 'renewables are cheaper'. At the very least we should question what has become conventional thinking in Aus.

I do not believe China favors Coal...however it is still the source for most of their energy. Not sure favor is the right term..we all favor the renewables but that does not make them the best option at this point in time. Globally energy output is in a transition phase and that includes everyone. Some will get their quicker than others but that will be more to do with their unique circumstances rather than any special desire.

 

[Marcel Proust]

The amount of free money the oil industry and the like are given in aust. And world wide is mindboggling

 

[Kwality]

The amount of free money the oil industry and the like are given in aust. And world wide is mindboggling

good ol chestnut ..... given we import so much.

 

[Marcel Proust]

good ol chestnut ..... given we import so much.

5.5ish Trillion apparently. (few years back. Probably more now...)

6.5% of global GDP...

Amazing black rock indeed

The imf reckons

 

[Kwality]

5.5ish Trillion apparently. (few years back. Probably more now...)

6.5% of global GDP...

Amazing black rock indeed

The imf reckons

An example of blind faith .... the oil industry you say.

 

[Marcel Proust]

An example of blind faith .... the oil industry you say.

What are you talking about friend.

fossil fuel industry, if you prefer that wording

Do you not find the numbers staggering?

More so when many people spend much of their time complaining about Dole bludgers and the like which is a drop in the ocean comparatively

 

[Kwality]

What are you talking about friend.

fossil fuel industry, if you prefer that wording

Couldnt see oil.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Couldnt see oil.

Oil. Coal. Gas.

I apologise for the wording

 

[Kwality]

Guess these guys didnt know about these grid problems & someone came up with a price lower than coal, really?

Two solar farms and one wind farm in north Queensland face major constraints due to newly discovered “system strength” issues and their output could be curtailed to zero under certain conditions.

The generators affected are the Haughton and Sun Metals solar farm near Townsville, and the newly commissioned Mt Emerald wind farm, according to a market notice issued by the Australian Energy Market Operator.

The system strength issues are similar to those that have seen the output of five solar farms in Victoria and NSW cut in half,

Two solar farms, one wind farm in Queensland hit by “system strength” issues

Two solar farms and one wind farm in north Queensland face major cuts in output due to newly discovered “system strength” issues.

reneweconomy.com.au

 

[DAlembert]

The amount of free money the oil industry and the like are given in aust. And world wide is mindboggling

More information please.

 

[Marcel Proust]

More information please.

Just search fossil fuel subsidises

I thought I put most of the main bits about.

People lose their mind over social security or a billion for a road not to be made

Drop in the ocean comparatively

 

[Kwality]

Just search fossil fuel subsidises

I thought I put most of the main bits about.

People lose their mind over social security or a billion for a road not to be made

Drop in the ocean comparatively

If its the one I've seen posted in support of this claim, it included the diesel fuel rebate paid to farmers, gold miners, transport companies - that is nonsense at which point I regarded as unreliable and just a crutch to support the anti coal brigade trying to widen their appeal.

 

[Marcel Proust]

If its the one I've seen posted in support of this claim, it included the diesel fuel rebate paid to farmers, gold miners, transport companies - that is nonsense at which point I regarded as unreliable and just a crutch to support the anti coal brigade trying to widen their appeal.

Feel free to put up some sources. In regard to the true numbers . Otherwise I'm going to side with the IMF over you.

$10 million per minute and 6.5% of global GDP - is staggering in anyone's language.

With 10-30 percent of this obscene money you can apparently have a green fuel industry which is what I assume OP is getting at

 

[Kwality]

Feel free to put up some sources. In regard to the true numbers . Otherwise I'm going to side with the IMF over you.

$10 million per minute and 6.5% of global GDP - is staggering in anyone's language.

With 10-30 percent of this obscene money you can apparently have a green fuel industry which is what I assume OP is getting at

Sorry no. The only claim I've made is the diesel fuel rebate is not a per se subsidy to the fossil fuel industry, & thats on the basis that the money is rebated to the farmer et al.

 

[Power Raid]

Just search fossil fuel subsidises

I thought I put most of the main bits about.

People lose their mind over social security or a billion for a road not to be made

Drop in the ocean comparatively

It takes 20 seconds of consideration to debunk any of these propaganda articles on free money for fossil fuel

95% relate to off road fuel rebates (not being charged a fuel tax) available for any industry or sector


It is time people start thinking about what they read or be guilty of spreading ignorance. This is a crime against society

 

[Power Raid]

Sorry no. The only claim I've made is the diesel fuel rebate is not a per se subsidy to the fossil fuel industry, & thats on the basis that the money is rebated to the farmer et al.

Yep

It is cool to overlook an asymmetric tax system arbitrarily applying a tax on fuel vs any other commodity or service.

Then calling it “free money” when a rebate is applied to off road use such as power generation or off road transport.


A thinking person would note the tax being applied is a penalty and generates billions for governments rather than seeing where it isn’t applied as a subsidy.

But fools are easily fooled, especially if they believe!

 

[DAlembert]

Just search fossil fuel subsidises

I thought I put most of the main bits about.

People lose their mind over social security or a billion for a road not to be made

Drop in the ocean comparatively

The amount of subsidies in dollar terms is way less than the Welfare Bill. So that comparison is void. It costs Billions to explore and get into production a viable energy company so that you and I can switch on a lite or drive our car or have the energy to drive industry. Its easy to pick out the numbers and say this is not right but you have to be able to look at the big picture. Its a big employer also. You need to do a bit more research. Because you current line is trite.

 

[Marcel Proust]

The amount of subsidies in dollar terms is way less than the Welfare Bill. So that comparison is void. It costs Billions to explore and get into production a viable energy company so that you and I can switch on a lite or drive our car or have the energy to drive industry. Its easy to pick out the numbers and say this is not right but you have to be able to look at the big picture. Its a big employer also. You need to do a bit more research. Because you current line is trite.

Holden and ford gave jobs too and they were pissed off.

After 100 odd years of mega free money / corporate welfare

Op argument I assumed based on facts , 5 odd years ago, is that it's cheaper to turn on the light with a green fuel industry.

$5200000000000 is literally a mindboggling number.

What percentage of these handouts is diesel fuel rebate paid to farmers and the like.

I am very much looking ar the bigger picture

 

[DAlembert]

Holden and ford gave jobs too and they were pissed off.

After 100 odd years of mega free money / corporate welfare

Op argument I assumed based on facts , 5 odd years ago, is that it's cheaper to turn on the light with a green fuel industry.

$5200000000000 is literally a mindboggling number.

What percentage of these handouts is diesel fuel rebate paid to farmers and the like.

I am very much looking ar the bigger picture

"after 100 odd years of mega free money / corporate welfare " Try and explain this. It makes no sense.
Car industry was propped up for 25/30 years to retain jobs ..this became completely unviable and a burden on the taxpayer.
Not a mind boggling number. Why is it?
Do not know.

You do not have a clear argument and are not making sense...sound like someone with a chip on your shoulder.

 

[Kwality]

Holden and ford gave jobs too and they were pissed off.

After 100 odd years of mega free money / corporate welfare

Op argument I assumed based on facts , 5 odd years ago, is that it's cheaper to turn on the light with a green fuel industry.

$5200000000000 is literally a mindboggling number.

What percentage of these handouts is diesel fuel rebate paid to farmers and the like.

I am very much looking at the bigger picture

Hopefully most of us are looking at the bigger picture & unfortunately so many claims both pro & con are loaded at best.

I raise the question of why China & India continue to invest in coal power (& renewables) when we are told renewables are cheaper - its begs the question of what are being told, almost a doctrine of faith that renewables are cheaper.
1 + 1 =2 not whatever you'd like it to be.
Now we find the renewable numbers in Australia dont include connection to the grid, its expensive for lots of reasons & many of renewable facilities cant operate at full capacity - I'm sure there would be those in the industry who have long been aware of this & knew we were being feed $crap.

I'm not anti coal or renewables even nuclear, a balance makes sense to me.

On the diesel fuel rebate if I find the numbers on BF I'll happily look at the numbers you seek - my point was then that the claim that its somehow a benefit to the fossil fuel industry when its paid to farmers, miners etc is nonsense. You can argue about a % but to claim carte blanche is disingenuous like so many of the claims.

 

[Kwality]

North Queensland needs a new link to unlock massive wind and solar resource

There are strong arguments for a new link to unlock the massive wind and solar resources in north Queensland.

reneweconomy.com.au

This is a good article that gets to the crux of the claim that renewables are cheaper, & for me cheaper means in my bill & I'd reckon the OP was of that view when he kicked off this thread eons ago.

Sure you can cherrypick the article to support the cheaper claim, but as usual the devil is in the detail, in this case the grid.

In summary imho the cost to generate is cheaper from renewables but when the cost required to deliver it to the doorstep (the bill), is more expensive.
Happy for anyone to disagree.

http://www.theguardian.com/environm...0-renewable-energy-would-save-australia-money

Unfortunately there's a catch - moving to renewables won't earn trillions for multinational fossil fuel companies or line the pockets of the Australian politicians in their possession.

So its business as usual, back to pretending climate change isn't real because there's too much money to be made polluting the atmosphere at the expense of our childrens' future.

 

[00Stinger]

With my 24 solar panels I need to generate close to 4 times the power I use in order to get a bill of $0

Ridiculous

Sent from my SM-A505YN using Tapatalk

 

[Kwality]

Australia’s newest and biggest wind farm sets benchmark for lowest price reads the headline, bewdy we are moving to get our bills down .... well not if you read the detail:

..... state energy minister Anthony Lynham mocked the (ongoing) push by conservatives for a new coal fired generator near Townsville, boasting that he could ‘”get a wind farm for around $44″ (a megawatt hour) and a solar farm for around $50/MWh, compared to the cost of new coal of well above $130/MWh.

Australia’s newest and biggest wind farm sets benchmark for lowest price

Australia’s biggest wind farm is also likely to have set a new benchmark on price as well, the first public tender to set a contract below $50/MWh.

reneweconomy.com.au

Mr Lynham clearly doesnt know that his power bill $s are real, what he could do is a premature evaluation of what he does deliver: promises, promises ....

This thread was based on similar claims back in 2016 & attracted the activists:

Unfortunately there's a catch - moving to renewables won't earn trillions for multinational fossil fuel companies or line the pockets of the Australian politicians in their possession.

So its business as usual, back to pretending climate change isn't real because there's too much money to be made polluting the atmosphere at the expense of our childrens' future.

When are we going to acknowledge putting numbers on a white board are idle* speculation when its comes to our power bill. Since 2016 are bills are going up, how many taxpayer dollars are going into this charade of lower power costs?

* idol if its climate change.

WHEN ?

 

[Power Raid]

With my 24 solar panels I need to generate close to 4 times the power I use in order to get a bill of $0

Ridiculous

Sent from my SM-A505YN using Tapatalk

Given the rolls Royce of the power grid to enable unreliable renewables to exist on the grid, you should be the one paying for that asset.

Unfortunately we all share that burden, yet you still have the gall to winge