Moving forward. How will the team progress in 2018.

[plugger66]

This maybe unfavourable or debatable. But I want Weller out for Dunstan in for the leadership group. Even if ur injured or out of form you should least contribute to players leadership wise on game day. You look at Bruce most of the times he's first to his teammates when they kick a goal or miss a shot. Look at Weller, trying to be fancy and doing stuff that's not required at the wrong time. I enjoyed watching Dunstan since his return and he has really stepped up and showing signs from 2014 and I think he's going to be a major factory in 2018. I'm probably being harsh on Weller but it's just my view.

What do you think guys??

That's fine now but you wouldn't have said that 10 weeks ago when Dunstan was in the seconds. That's why decisions like that are taken over a longer period of time. I'm not saying it wont happen but you would want to be certain of Dunstans form.

 

[Sab22]

That's fine now but you wouldn't have said that 10 weeks ago when Dunstan was in the seconds. That's why decisions like that are taken over a longer period of time. I'm not saying it wont happen but you would want to be certain of Dunstans form.

Very good point, no I wouldn't have said that 10 weeks ago but like I doubt it happens but this season has been so odd, anything is possible. And possibly too early for him as well.

 

[Xxxx66]

"IF" we improve next year, i'd love us to have a reliable guy in backup for Longer and Hickey. Pierce is not that, contract or not , i don't want him. I'd rather keep Holmes who is 28 but doesn't have the wear and tear on him that ( for example ) Sandilands has. ( even if we delist him and rookie him again). Then i'd be hoping that Marshall develops.

I couldn't work out at the time why they would possibly have offered those contracts to Pierce , Minchington and Wright. I can only hope that we will try to trade them to another club for depth, even if its for draft pick 999 or something.

Why do you think O'Kearney will struggle to get a third year? Given that they drafted him for some reason, what should he have done that he hasn't? What do you consider to be his limitations?

We're in strife if Holmes gets another game. Rather see a pinch hitter like marshall get some game time. Make be Hickey regain some form and be happy to be the number 2. Pierce seems to have gone backwards

 

[JG22]

This maybe unfavourable or debatable. But I want Weller out for Dunstan in for the leadership group. Even if ur injured or out of form you should least contribute to players leadership wise on game day. You look at Bruce most of the times he's first to his teammates when they kick a goal or miss a shot. Look at Weller, trying to be fancy and doing stuff that's not required at the wrong time. I enjoyed watching Dunstan since his return and he has really stepped up and showing signs from 2014 and I think he's going to be a major factory in 2018. I'm probably being harsh on Weller but it's just my view.

What do you think guys??

Huge hate on this board for Weller. Since he's been back he's been pretty decent. One of our better tacklers, numbers have been up, that's selfless football. Miles better than other small options. Don't doubt his leadership but his ability has simply let it down

 

[Sab22]

Huge hate on this board for Weller. Since he's been back he's been pretty decent. One of our better tacklers, numbers have been up, that's selfless football. Miles better than other small options. Don't doubt his leadership but his ability has simply let it down

No doubt he has has what it takes to be a gun on his day. I reckon he achieved so much last year that the expectations and leadership require might have impacted him imo. In my view I see him as a guy who can be best 22 on his best form and but not as a leader. I feel like I let the first half of this year overshadow the Weller after getting dropped feel less credited. But this year was genuinely disappointing from him.

 

[malevu]

I think something that is easy to overlook is that we have had virtually no currency from our two first round draft picks in 2014. Pick 1 (Paddy) and 21 (Hugh Goddard) have had little impact. This is no knock on either guy who have both had a terrible run with injury but that's a huge investment for stuff all pay off to date.

To put it into context we'll end up with two picks inside the top 10 in this year's draft. Imagine the melts if were to be told that neither player would have any impact by 2020.

Naturally, we're all hoping that Paddy and Hugh will both pay off in the long run but at the moment it's like having bought a couple of prestige cars but you can't get them out of the garage. In the meantime you're bemoaning why you have to catch the bus to work.

 

[F_therest]

I think something that is easy to overlook is that we have had virtually no currency from our two first round draft picks in 2014. Pick 1 (Paddy) and 21 (Hugh Goddard) have had little impact. This is no knock on either guy who have both had a terrible run with injury but that's a huge investment for stuff all pay off to date.

To put it into context we'll end up with two picks inside the top 10 in this year's draft. Imagine the melts if were to be told that neither player would have any impact by 2020.

Naturally, we're all hoping that Paddy and Hugh will both pay off in the long run but at the moment it's like having bought a couple of prestige cars but you can't get them out of the garage. In the meantime you're bemoaning why you have to catch the bus to work.

Melbourne on the other hand got Petracca, Brayshaw, Neal-Bulleen, Stretch & Oscar McDonald.

Petracca had a quiet game but throughout the season Melbourne's 2014 draft have certainly contributed...Brayshaw was great and has had concussion issues.

 

[Saint Watto]

Don't doubt his leadership but his ability has simply let it down

And from what we can gather......a bad ankle.........if that's correct.

 

[Saint Watto]

I think something that is easy to overlook is that we have had virtually no currency from our two first round draft picks in 2014. Pick 1 (Paddy) and 21 (Hugh Goddard) have had little impact. This is no knock on either guy who have both had a terrible run with injury but that's a huge investment for stuff all pay off to date.

maleve.....you nailed it there....I mentioned last week that the club would have assumed both would be up and running by now....it's a huge setback to the plans.....something the club naturally never dreamed would happen.

And it's impacting us right now.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

We need to hit the trade and FA period hard. Kelly should be our number one priority and we should give up whatever it takes to get him in terms of draft picks. Then I'd like to see us aggressively target some other genuine quality like Lever, Devon Smith and Bruest. If we can land Rockliff or Motlop as a FA then we should go for it - both have issues but both are much better than the players currently occupying those roles in our 22.

We should try and offload Hickey and Armitage if they can help us get a trade done. Roo, Joey and Dempster all gone. Holmes and Lonie should be delisted and Wright should be cut and rookied (due to his contract).

Then we need to see a lot of improvement from Acres, McCartin, Dunstan, Gresham and Steele - they are the players who I think can go up a level in 2018 and seriously improve our team. If Steven and Weller can get over their injury issues and return to their best form that would help massively as well. If Freeman can get into the team and hold his place that would be a huge help as we still lack genuine linebreaking pace. As long as we land a big fish and another best 18 player in the off-season I think we should be a better team in 2018.

 

[Tigerssaints]

we can have bucket loads of players ( no I in Team)
but until they are " coached " correctly, when bringing the ball into the forward line.
we were killed by Melb( and other teams) centreing for easy shots from CHF,
we went around the boundary again ,and had our left footers leading to the wrong flank ,
Only Membery leads to CHF
lead at the player , with the ball, and not try and get a cheap goal out the back ( our guys cant kick that far)
that's why our "Ego guys" ,kick so many points
give our backs a rest, slow game down when its not going our way ( Hodgey )
Bloody simple game is it not

 

[aussierulesrules]

No doubt he has has what it takes to be a gun on his day. I reckon he achieved so much last year that the expectations and leadership require might have impacted him imo. In my view I see him as a guy who can be best 22 on his best form and but not as a leader.

So how come he did it last year when he was in the leadership group? He's been in it for 3 years now.

It's like those who are trying to attribute his drop in form this year to the fact he meditates, when he was likewise doing it last year when he was in career-best form!

 

[Significant]

What I hope our best 22 looks like next year...

FB: Geary / Brown / Webster
HB: Savage / Carlisle / Roberton
R: Longer / Dunstan / Armitage
C: Newnes / Ross / Kelly
HF: Billings / McCartin / Steven
FF: Membrey / Bruce / Weller
IC: Acres / Sinclair / Gresham / Steele

Few observations:

- Would love Weller and Steven to be our bash brothers up forward applying significant pressure. I think they are our two quickest players and therefore can utilise this out the back on a quick rebound better, while resting Steven forward with short bursts in the mids will a) help ease the rotations he constantly takes b) may help with beating a tag and c) helps us lock the ball up forward and potentially resolve our small forward issue.

- We have a lot of late-20 players which I am finding hard to fit in the team when they take the place of younger players we are trying to fast track. Stevens and Gilbert are two I have left out, but you could almost lump Armitage, Hickey, Brown and Geary within the same conversation.

- Looking at our team it is apparent that all list management decisions have been made with a strategic view on sustainable success. We have so much 'young talent' on this list its ridiculous, its just about getting the game time into our 2013-16 draft crop (including those traded in). Thats where the majority of our improvement will come from - not some messiah traded in but internal growth.

- Given the above, I don't think a Rockliff / Motlop / any other FA is the best option for our team. Martin / Fyfe made sense given their age, but the others would just be taking the position of a player we need to get game time into (hurts me to say because I think Rockliff is the perfect fit for us).

- Also given the above, we need to be patient, as that is the approach being taken by the club. Once Steele, Billings, Dunstan, Gresham, Acres, McCartin, etc. hit 100-150 games we are in their prime I have no doubt we will be a very very competitive football side. Its about keeping that lot together and trading in players to complement our strategic approach (Freeman, Steele, Kelly), whilst delivering the message that we are a very young, but very driven and talented football team on the verge of sustained succes. Something I think we have been very good at so far.

 

[lethalsaints]

If Freeman and Paddy come good our team will be a force.

 

[Crusty Undies]

The way I see it our best team next year is the one that sets us up for a long run at winning a premiership, with that in mind the "best" 22 for me (including the trades/FAs I'm hoping for) is:

FB: Rice Goddard Webster

HB: Savage Carlisle Roberton

C: Kelly Rockliff Sinclair

R: Longer Ross Steven

HF: Acres Membrey Billings

FF: Freeman Bruce Gresham

I/C: Dunstan, White, Steele, Newnes

Dunstan, Steele, Newnes, Gresham, Freeman, Kelly, Sinclair, Acres and Billings to all rotate through the wings and centre square with a setup of 1 bull (Rockliff style), 1 rover with good skills (Ross style) and 1 player to burst from the stoppage (Steven style).

Obviously this won't be the team that lines up round 1 and it probably won't line up anytime next year at least but that's how I see it. Don't see a place for Monty with the amount of talent we have coming through.

Geary and Gilbert should be phased out very soon for Rice and White who are just as good defensively but aren't liabilities with ball in hand. Don't see a place for Armo or Stevens with 2 younger inside mids. If we don't get Rocky, I'd rather see more of Freeman in the middle and open up another spot for a fwd from the likes of Long/Lonie for smalls or Paddy/Marshall for talls. Weller is another who just isn't good enough with the ball to hold his spot imo. Goddard for Brown is just natural progression, hopefully by the end of next year Hugh is back and firing looked good in the couple games he had early on with some real campaigner and decent ball use about him.

Earlier on I was worried about our lack of talent but doing this I really struggled to fitin all the players and that was being brutal with our older players (Geary, Gilbert, Armo etc) and leaving out a huge number of our promising younger players (Long, Lonie, Paddy). If Paddy comes on in leaps and bounds as some are expecting I want him to take Bruce's place, as I don't think 3 talls really works for us withthe amount of gut running our gameplan required we need all the rotations and resting on field places as we can get.

I see this team as the closest we can get to a Bulldogs/Hawks style with players who can rotate through the mid filling every position forward of centre apart from FF and CHF. It's now what's required to keep the midfield fresh with the amount of work they do these days.

 

[SaintSteele9]

Interesting article in the Herald Sun about our goal-kicking issues... The statistics are nothing short of abysmal. Non-negotiable to straighten it up in 2018.

 

[Sir Skid]

The way I see it our best team next year is the one that sets us up for a long run at winning a premiership, with that in mind the "best" 22 for me (including the trades/FAs I'm hoping for) is:

FB: Rice Goddard Webster

HB: Savage Carlisle Roberton

C: Kelly Rockliff Sinclair

R: Longer Ross Steven

HF: Acres Membrey Billings

FF: Freeman Bruce Gresham

I/C: Dunstan, White, Steele, Newnes

Dunstan, Steele, Newnes, Gresham, Freeman, Kelly, Sinclair, Acres and Billings to all rotate through the wings and centre square with a setup of 1 bull (Rockliff style), 1 rover with good skills (Ross style) and 1 player to burst from the stoppage (Steven style).

Obviously this won't be the team that lines up round 1 and it probably won't line up anytime next year at least but that's how I see it. Don't see a place for Monty with the amount of talent we have coming through.

Geary and Gilbert should be phased out very soon for Rice and White who are just as good defensively but aren't liabilities with ball in hand. Don't see a place for Armo or Stevens with 2 younger inside mids. If we don't get Rocky, I'd rather see more of Freeman in the middle and open up another spot for a fwd from the likes of Long/Lonie for smalls or Paddy/Marshall for talls. Weller is another who just isn't good enough with the ball to hold his spot imo. Goddard for Brown is just natural progression, hopefully by the end of next year Hugh is back and firing looked good in the couple games he had early on with some real campaigner and decent ball use about him.

Earlier on I was worried about our lack of talent but doing this I really struggled to fitin all the players and that was being brutal with our older players (Geary, Gilbert, Armo etc) and leaving out a huge number of our promising younger players (Long, Lonie, Paddy). If Paddy comes on in leaps and bounds as some are expecting I want him to take Bruce's place, as I don't think 3 talls really works for us withthe amount of gut running our gameplan required we need all the rotations and resting on field places as we can get.

I see this team as the closest we can get to a Bulldogs/Hawks style with players who can rotate through the mid filling every position forward of centre apart from FF and CHF. It's now what's required to keep the midfield fresh with the amount of work they do these days.

Obvious exclusion of Geary but... Rice will overtake him if he's anything like his Dad as a player.

Kelly and Rocky would make a world of difference to us.
Good effort imo. This side as its skilful and fast.

 

[pebblesofsand]

The way I see it our best team next year is the one that sets us up for a long run at winning a premiership, with that in mind the "best" 22 for me (including the trades/FAs I'm hoping for) is:

FB: Rice Goddard Webster

HB: Savage Carlisle Roberton

C: Kelly Rockliff Sinclair

R: Longer Ross Steven

HF: Acres Membrey Billings

FF: Freeman Bruce Gresham

I/C: Dunstan, White, Steele, Newnes

Dunstan, Steele, Newnes, Gresham, Freeman, Kelly, Sinclair, Acres and Billings to all rotate through the wings and centre square with a setup of 1 bull (Rockliff style), 1 rover with good skills (Ross style) and 1 player to burst from the stoppage (Steven style).

Obviously this won't be the team that lines up round 1 and it probably won't line up anytime next year at least but that's how I see it. Don't see a place for Monty with the amount of talent we have coming through.

Geary and Gilbert should be phased out very soon for Rice and White who are just as good defensively but aren't liabilities with ball in hand. Don't see a place for Armo or Stevens with 2 younger inside mids. If we don't get Rocky, I'd rather see more of Freeman in the middle and open up another spot for a fwd from the likes of Long/Lonie for smalls or Paddy/Marshall for talls. Weller is another who just isn't good enough with the ball to hold his spot imo. Goddard for Brown is just natural progression, hopefully by the end of next year Hugh is back and firing looked good in the couple games he had early on with some real campaigner and decent ball use about him.

Earlier on I was worried about our lack of talent but doing this I really struggled to fitin all the players and that was being brutal with our older players (Geary, Gilbert, Armo etc) and leaving out a huge number of our promising younger players (Long, Lonie, Paddy). If Paddy comes on in leaps and bounds as some are expecting I want him to take Bruce's place, as I don't think 3 talls really works for us withthe amount of gut running our gameplan required we need all the rotations and resting on field places as we can get.

I see this team as the closest we can get to a Bulldogs/Hawks style with players who can rotate through the mid filling every position forward of centre apart from FF and CHF. It's now what's required to keep the midfield fresh with the amount of work they do these days.

Good side but I can't see how you can include Freeman who is yet to play an AFL game and exclude McCartin who has shown that he does belong at AFL level.

FB: Rice Goddard Webster

HB: Savage Carlisle Roberton

C: Kelly Rockliff Sinclair

HF: Membrey McCartin Billings

FF: Acres Bruce Gresham

R: Longer Ross Steven

I/C: Dunstan, White, Steele, Newnes

PS After listening to Matt Finnis I wonder what number NOK will swap into next year if he stays.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Obvious exclusion of Geary but... Rice will overtake him if he's anything like his Dad as a player.

Kelly and Rocky would make a world of difference to us.
Good effort imo. This side as its skilful and fast.

That's my only concern about Geary as a captain. If he's not an obvious pick for the squad each week it can get embarrassing.

Kelly and Rocky would be good ( Rockliff would push one of Armitage, Stevens, Dunstan out of the team IMO ).
Too soon to count our chickens for trade though. As Finnis pointed out, we are in the race, but in the end its not something you can just "do", its up to the players.
If we don't get Rocky, an in -form Armitage or Stevens is not the end of the world.
Kelly is harder to replace internally. I guess it would still be up to Newnes to carry the load in his not so spectacular fashion .

No-one seems to have Minchington, Mackenzie, Pierce or Wright in their future vision. The contract management here is unfathomable.
I don't mind any of them as Sandringham/depth players ( except maybe Pierce ). Its the player we will need to de-list to keep them that annoys me.

 

[pebblesofsand]

That's my only concern about Geary as a captain. If he's not an obvious pick for the squad each week it can get embarrassing.

Kelly and Rocky would be good ( Rockliff would push one of Armitage, Stevens, Dunstan out of the team IMO ).
Too soon to count our chickens for trade though. As Finnis pointed out, we are in the race, but in the end its not something you can just "do", its up to the players.
If we don't get Rocky, an in -form Armitage or Stevens is not the end of the world.
Kelly is harder to replace internally. I guess it would still be up to Newnes to carry the load in his not so spectacular fashion .

No-one seems to have Minchington, Mackenzie, Pierce or Wright in their future vision. The contract management here is unfathomable.
I don't mind any of them as Sandringham/depth players ( except maybe Pierce ). Its the player we will need to de-list to keep them that annoys me.

Three ruck options

1 delist Holmes and retain Hickey and Pierce.

2 trade Hickey and retain both Pierce and Holmes

3 payout Pierce and keep Holmes and Hickey

I suspect it will be the offers on Hickey (if any) which will determine which way we go.

Personally I'd pick option 3

 

[Dr Spaceman]

then maybe the coaching staff have to be out there kicking the set shots for each and every one of our players

That's really, really silly

But it does seem to be a mindset problem in many instances; a lack of confidence. So as we now have defensive forwards who aren't required to kick goals, what we should do is find a really good pyschologist, pick him up as a Category B draftee and use him in that position.

Obviously we'd need to teach him how to tackle

However his main role during the match would be to stand next to the bloke having the shot for goal and to counsel him for 20 seconds or so.

Give that 11 rounds and if there's no improvement, instruct everyone to pass it to the new bloke who may as well do the goal kicking as well

 

[Wintle]

There is little doubt that we have not reached our 2017 year expectations and we could argue the merits or otherwise of a number of our playing group, but I put our somewhat disappointing year down to two principal factors.

The first and obvious being our poor kicking for goal which has dogged us for a number of seasons now, but especially in this one. The second and probably even more relevant is that as Roo's form has declined over the course of the year, Paddy McCartin has not been able to fill the void.

In his third season now, as the number one draft pick I think that most of us would have been expecting a little more from Paddy than what we have seen thus far. His ongoing concussion issues are obviously a serious issue with regards to his health and fitness and maybe its time he considered the use of protective headgear as other players with this "problem" have used and successfully.

We need a fit and firing Paddy McCartin out on the paddock if we are to be a serious threat in 2018.

 

[Crusty Undies]

Good side but I can't see how you can include Freeman who is yet to play an AFL game and exclude McCartin who has shown that he does belong at AFL level.

FB: Rice Goddard Webster

HB: Savage Carlisle Roberton

C: Kelly Rockliff Sinclair

HF: Membrey McCartin Billings

FF: Acres Bruce Gresham

R: Longer Ross Steven

I/C: Dunstan, White, Steele, Newnes

PS After listening to Matt Finnis I wonder what number NOK will swap into next year if he stays.

Team balance thing. Membrey and Bruce > McCartin and I don't believe our gameplan supports 3 key forwards.

 

[The Punter]

I suspect McCartin will be ahead of Bruce by this time next year.

 

[St Kilda Death]

Team balance thing. Membrey and Bruce > McCartin and I don't believe our gameplan supports 3 key forwards.

I can see the 3 working well together once Roos gone.
Even from the wing he was leading into the fwd line and a commanding prescence.
Probably see a new structure next year with paddy deep fwd and the other 2 working up the flanks.