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History Multiculturalism in history - any examples?

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Britain, Germany, France and Spain, amongst others, have never been "multicultural". They were colonial powers who went around annexing land all over the place and turning those "acquired" lands into British, French etc. outposts. They were in fact part of their colonial empires.

The peoples of these lands became citizens of the various colonial powers: they weren't asked if they wanted to be, they were told. That is why there are "Indian", "Pakistani", "West Indian" etc. etc people in Britain and the only reason I call them "Indian", "Pakistani" etc. is to identify their country of origin/heritage because by law, British Law that is, they are British. So when we hear the rantings of your Cameron's, Merkel's, Sarkozy etc. about how "multiculturalism" has not worked, what they really are saying is that their predecessors, the ones that went out and conquered foreign lands and their peoples, they stuffed up! They should have kept the strong ones to work and had a breeding pool from which to provide labour in the future; the others should have been liquidated and certainly never ever have been made subjects of Britain, France, Germany etc. and certainly not allowed into "the mother country".

The sanctimonious and bigoted mongrels in those European countries who go around saying "multiculturalism" hasn't worked are saying in reality, that if people aren't white and Christian, then they are sub-human and inferior and shouldn't be there.

As another person posted in this thread, when the white fellas were transported out here, there were at least two hundred "countries" in Australia with over four hundred distinct languages. These people lived in relative harmony with each other for thousands upon thousands of years. They traded amongst each other and married and developed sign languages to communicate with other peoples from different "countries" because their spoken languages and spiritual beliefs were completely different.

Our country has a multicultural tradition spanning 40,000 years plus and the rest of us who came here or whose ancestors came here, would never have left our country of origin if we were not forced to do so whether that was because of famine, persecution, war or all of the preceding.
Some were transported out here for stealing bread to placate their hunger, for heaven's sake!

This is a land of beauty and diversity and peace and we are making inroads towards reconciling ourselves with the Aboriginal peoples whose land this is. We, the majority of non-Aboriginals, are cast offs or come from those who were cast offs from other lands, for whatever reason and we should be having a ball here instead of running around pointing fingers at others and calling them inferior.

The "multiculturalism has never worked and never will work" brigades, are paranoid and xenophobic due to lack of education or, are outright bigots and racists. These numbskulls don't realise that our "way-of-life" is the way it is because of the multiplicity of cultures that have been settling on this land for over two hundred years, not to mention the Aboriginal peoples that have been here for forty millennia.

Disgraceful pigs like Cory Bernardi and others who pull out the race card for some political objective, are the ones that need to be condemned, not the decent and advanced pursuit of harmonious existence together regardless of race, colour and creed.
I agree with a lot of what you said , but you know the problem is now and has been forever the human animal, it can be fair it can be unfair , it can live and love and live and hate. Each and everyone of those critters is different and have conflict within their own kind let alone trying to mix with people who are totally different.
No one can help this it is the nature of humans , even ones who stress they are not bigoted or racist, inside there is always something. Its nature.
I beleive thats why multiculturalism would be the greatest thing in the history of living things for the human race , you still have to deal with multi religiousism sorry about that word , its not just different races in fact its beleifs and different ways of looking at things and of being used to what you were brought up with, that creates the problem. As I said nobodys fault it just humans , they will never do it, they just will never do it properly.
We see it forever look at the middle east, what a cauldron of terrible potential for killing and hatred , there are some people in the middle east who still talk about the Crusades like it was yesterday. Those will be like that forever and their children will as will westerners children no matter what they are taught , its human genetics, same animal all over the world , look at the Americans killed 600,0000 thousand of their own in the civil war.
So different in millions of ways that never ever will all be able to live peacefully. We are the only animal that hunts for sport. How in the name of hell are we ever going to change the nature of the human being, you have to have laws because of human nature, if you didn,t it would be chaotic hell on earth. Thats us mate homosapien the most dangerous thing on the planet . Too much brain to be safe around other animals.
And we always will be , so multiculture will be tried out and fail over and over and eventually it will work because we,ll have all become coffee coloured people (in your dreams) that might "MIGHT" happen in 50 or 60 million years, doubt it.
Just take each individual human and deal with that its easy and most humans on a one to one are great folks what ever colour or religion. BUT BEWARE not all are.
 
The "multiculturalism has never worked and never will work" brigades, are paranoid and xenophobic due to lack of education or, are outright bigots and racists.

How can suggesting multiculturalism has never worked make you dumb and racist? Most historical conflicts can be disseminated back to simple differences in ethenicity or (mainly religeous) beliefs.
 
How can suggesting multiculturalism has never worked make you dumb and racist? Most historical conflicts can be disseminated back to simple differences in ethenicity or (mainly religeous) beliefs.

I'm not sure how drawing a conclusion based on historical evidence can make you anything (other than a historian)? Some people don't seem to be able to separate historical study (i.e. fact) with theoretical discussions (i.e. opinion)
 

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The United States does alright.

But are they? They're strong Western values still alive?

Youth for Western Civilization cop 2 hours of abuse/ hate before getting approval. Really, youth for Western Civilization in America is now a problem? It appears the left really have a hatred for the West - which reminds me of another video (for another thread)

 
Well - it wasn't from using the race card, but Bernardi is GAWN!
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...mands-discipline/story-fn59niix-1226477656887
good riddance..

Sad thing is though that it actually free's his hand somewhat to exercise his considerable talents in the dark arts of agitprop (hat tip to Sheridan for that particular Cold War anachronism, I look forward to slipping it into more comments in the future ;)), Bernardi is a dangerous prick and potentially a lot more dangerous outside of the limelight in the backbenches.
 
But are they? They're strong Western values still alive?

Funny that:

The demographics of New York City are evidence of a large and ethnically diverse metropolis. It is the largest city in the United States with a population defined by a long history of international immigration. Throughout its history New York City has been a major point of entry for immigrants; the term "melting pot" was coined to describe densely populated immigrant neighborhoods on the Lower East Side. As many as 200 languages are spoken in New York,[2] making it the second most linguistically diverse city in the world (after London, UK).

New York City is multicultural. About 36% of the city's population is foreign-born. The ten largest countries of origin are the Dominican Republic, China, Jamaica, Guyana, Mexico, Ecuador, Haiti, Trinidad and Tobago, Colombia, and Russia.[35] Between 1990 and 2000 the city admitted 1,224,524 immigrants.

They seem to be doing OK despite the above.

As for 'examples post 18th century multicultural Nation States', the very concept of 'Nations' wasnt even formed till the 19th century.

The origins and early history of nation states are disputed. A major theoretical issue is: "Which came first, the nation or the nation state?" For nationalists, the answer is that the nation existed first, nationalist movements arose to present its legitimate demand for sovereignty, and the nation state met that demand. Some "modernization theories" of nationalism see the national identity largely as a product of government policy to unify and modernize an already existing state. Most theories see the nation state as a 19th-century European phenomenon, facilitated by developments such as mass literacy and the early mass media.

The nation state received a philosophical underpinning in the era of Romanticism, at first as the 'natural' expression of the individual peoples (romantic nationalism: see Johann Gottlieb Fichte's conception of the Volk, which would be later opposed by Ernest Renan). The increasing emphasis during the 19th century on the ethnic and racial origins of the nation, led to a redefinition of the nation state in these terms.[8] Racism, which in Boulainvilliers's theories was inherently antipatriotic and antinationalist, joined itself with colonialist imperialism and "continental imperialism", most notably in pan-Germanic and pan-Slavic movements.[9]

The relation between racism and ethnic nationalism reached its height in the 20th century fascism and Nazism. The specific combination of 'nation' ('people') and 'state' expressed in such terms as the Völkische Staat and implemented in laws such as the 1935 Nuremberg laws made fascist states such as early Nazi Germany qualitatively different from non-fascist nation states. Minorities were not considered part of the people (Volk), and were consequently denied to have an authentic or legitimate role in such a state...
 

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Funny that:



They seem to be doing OK despite the above.

I used them as a good example earlier, people of different parts of the world is fine. But good examples imo have been of immigrants buying into the hosts culture, sure minor things change over the years such as meals, spices ect. Traditionally the yanks have been a very proud, patriotic nation big on their values and big on traditions, which made it easy for immigrants to buy into. Things are changing however, as displayed in that video. Its disgraceful imo that youth for Western Civilization (from all sorts of backgrounds) should be attacked at all. The experiment is still in its early days, imo theres dangers of communities fragmenting leading to civil unrest unless the West regains its confidence in itself.
 
Good tech to get in Civ 3.

Brings in conscription and mobilisation.

But I digress.

:thumbsu:

I've been toying with downloading 3, dunno if it's just sentimentality but I seem to recall it as being the most enjoyable version I've played.
 
I But good examples imo have been of immigrants buying into the hosts culture,

Thats kinda the whole point of multiculturalism.

Rather than a policy of monoculturalism (the State promoting one ethnic/ cultural group over another) an active policy of Multiculturalism embraces multiple ethnicities and cultures within the State, that while the have differences (religious, ethnic, 'racial') they all share certain broad values.

Multiculturalism does not imply multinationalism.

Look at Oz. Over time migrant groups from many diverse backgrounds have brought stuff in and enriched the overall culture and contributed to our heritage and modern society. And over time there is a homogenisation of values and customs that takes place. We take in a little of what they bring in, and they (over time) become more like us. An equilibrium is formed.

Look at people of Italian, Greek and Vietnamese heritage for examples. Third generation Italian, Greek and Vietnamese Aussies are a world apart from the first generation migrants that came to Oz hardly able to speak the language and formed 'ghettoes' and so forth.

Traditionally the yanks have been a very proud, patriotic nation big on their values and big on traditions, which made it easy for immigrants to buy into.

Not much different to Australia. From an outsiders perspective, Oz is extremely unique. And we have unique cultural, lingusitic and social quirks.

Things are changing however, as displayed in that video. Its disgraceful imo that youth for Western Civilization (from all sorts of backgrounds) should be attacked at all.

The experiment is still in its early days, imo theres dangers of communities fragmenting leading to civil unrest unless the West regains its confidence in itself.

Thats bullshit mate.

Australia and the USA has absorbed waves of migrants from a vast number of different nations cultures and ethnicities and not skipped a beat. Shit, both nations were formed and built on the backs of migration.

You seem to have this absurd notion that Australia is some kind of lawless anarchy with factional migrant groups going toe to toe, when the reality is that we have a rich, prosperous, diverse and totally stable multicultural society, with both diversity AND a unique binding culture.

Shit, Australia is (from both a contemporary and historical perspective) one of the most advanced, prosperous, liberal nations with a ridiculously high standard of living, low rates of poverty, high rates of literacy and life expectency and so forth.

:thumbsu:

I've been toying with downloading 3, dunno if it's just sentimentality but I seem to recall it as being the most enjoyable version I've played.

Go conquests. You can play the Celts for a change from the Germans (Panzers rock) and stack units.
 
Tell me what part of it is wrong? I spent a number of years in the military as an Indonesian linguist, what Mal would could a SigsOp. Believe me, a lot of the populations on islands apart from Java don't like the Javanese.

The Javanese in places are / were trying to vote, displace and breed the local cultures out.
Well aware of it.
A lot the Kiwis don.... never mind!

Hmmm.
But let's indulge in some minor profiling..

Former military man.
Now a prison officer.
Query emotionally brutalised.
History of weaponry and institutionalised life.
Frequents vicinity of Church Street.
Not comfortable with migrants (probably avoids neighbouring Bell Park).
Barely repressed anger.
Anti liberal...

......not a worry at all.... :D

(Sorry, HHH, too tasty to let pass!)
 
Depends what you call multicultural.

Before media homogenised cultures, there was a lot more diversity than there is now. England (excluding wales, let alone 'other parts') was probably 6-10 related but quite different 'cultures', depending on how you want to view them.

As nations rose and fell, they controlled a variety of such cultures, so I suppose they could be argued as 'multicultural'.

Most of these nations however did so with a ruling culture, and the others forced to adapt and/or repressed as required, so probably don't qualify under modern definitions.
 

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Going to give you something longer soon, but just for now the Roman Empire; the Holy Roman Empire; the period of Alexander the Great; the Achaemenid Empire; Russia under Tsarism and Soviets; the Austro-Hungarians; the Napoleonic period, the Muhammadean states and you can go on.

Really, the abberation in terms of multiculturalism came with the rise of the national question from the 19th century, although there was a wide divergence of opinion about that amongst nationalists who were still then in a minority - given most people were illiterate and would identify with their region and communicate through their local dialects.

Most people up to then never travelled more than a 10km radius from their place of birth and had no conception (because it hadn't been invented) of belonging to a nation state.

A nation is not something historically which has been 'discovered' but something which has been invented and made up.

I wouldn't know about most of the ones you mentioned, but Russia was hardly a successful "multicultural" state was it during the time of the Tsar's?
 
Well aware of it.
A lot the Kiwis don.... never mind!

Hmmm.
But let's indulge in some minor profiling..

Former military man.
Now a prison officer.
Query emotionally brutalised.
History of weaponry and institutionalised life.
Frequents vicinity of Church Street.
Not comfortable with migrants (probably avoids neighbouring Bell Park).
Barely repressed anger.
Anti liberal...

......not a worry at all.... :D

(Sorry, HHH, too tasty to let pass!)

I introduce a little of my background involving Indonesia to counter your thinly veiled attack and you throw in personal insults. In other words you've got nothing. Piss weak.

I haven't been a prison officer for quite a while.

I don't live in Victoria let alone Geelong.

Most of my best mates are from Greek, Italian, Croatian, Serbian stock.

You would have been better off just not replying instead of embarrassing yourself.
 
I introduce a little of my background involving Indonesia to counter your thinly veiled attack and you throw in personal insults. In other words you've got nothing. Piss weak.
I haven't been a prison officer for quite a while.
I don't live in Victoria let alone Geelong.
Most of my best mates are from Greek, Italian, Croatian, Serbian stock.
You would have been better off just not replying instead of embarrassing yourself.
C'mon, HHH!
Wotsamatta?!
You guys are just so thin skinned. Grow a sense of humour.
It was just a parody. Not very well done, but an example of the free speech we have here. Dish it out but can't take it?
All you Herne Hill blokes are the same. (Don't get me wrong! Some of my best mates went to the ol' West Tech.)
Why can't you just accept that you now live a BF culture and you have to adapt to our ways if you wanna stay?
Be more like us or get off. :cool:
 
C'mon, HHH!
Wotsamatta?!
You guys are just so thin skinned. Grow a sense of humour.
It was just a parody. Not very well done, but an example of the free speech we have here. Dish it out but can't take it?
All you Herne Hill blokes are the same. (Don't get me wrong! Some of my best mates went to the ol' West Tech.)
Why can't you just accept that you now live a BF culture and you have to adapt to our ways if you wanna stay?
Be more like us or get off. :cool:

Very poorly done I'd say. Where have I dished anything out in this particular thread. There's more than one Herne Hill in Australia too, you'd probably know that if you got out past the fringes of Melbourne once in awhile.

Who are we guys by the way? Geelong supporters or ones that don't agree with you in this thread?

Is it so hard for you to believe that a country like Indonesia has so many inhabitants that don't actually like the ruling class from Java?

'Oh no, those big bad, red necked Aussies are so horrible, why can't they be so nice like everyone else in the world.' Don't worry, I'm not one of those fearing Indonesia invading us.
 

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History Multiculturalism in history - any examples?


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