History Multiculturalism in history - any examples?

[Monniehawk]

That obviously all went through to the 'keeper...

 

[chargers 09]

Find a better example.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

That obviously all went through to the 'keeper...

Wouldn't matter what emoticon you attach to your posts while you're backpedalling. It's still shit.

 

[Monniehawk]

Wouldn't matter what emoticon you attach to your posts while you're backpedalling. It's still shit.

OK. I'll sit down with you one day and explain the concept of 'irony'.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Yugoslavia is probably the most successful example of a multicultural society IMO

Yugoslavia devolved into ethnic cleansing. That isn't success.

 

[chargers 09]

Yugoslavia devolved into ethnic cleansing. That isn't success.

Was hardly ethnic cleansing, just a disagreement between certain leaders IMO.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Was hardly ethnic cleansing, just a disagreement between certain leaders IMO.

...holy shit

Are you denying the atrocities committed in Yugoslavia?

 

[JoondalupJ]

Sad thing is though that it actually free's his hand somewhat to exercise his considerable talents in the dark arts of agitprop (hat tip to Sheridan for that particular Cold War anachronism, I look forward to slipping it into more comments in the future ), Bernardi is a dangerous prick and potentially a lot more dangerous outside of the limelight in the backbenches.

Bernardi needs shagging by a bull elephant.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Was hardly ethnic cleansing, just a disagreement between certain leaders IMO.

Wouldn,t Yugoslavia be the result of the loss of a very strong leader (Tito) the fall of the Soviet union and the break up into nationalistic states causing the return of the hatred and animosity between christians and muslims. Isn,t it really religion that causes all the problems , they are still fighting the 14th century over running of Byzantine/eastern Roman Empire by the Ottomans aren,t they. Ethnic cleansing is when a race slaughters another race I thought,
people in Yugosalvia would mostly be ethnically slavic yes? no? what do you all think.

 

[Malifice]

...holy shit

Are you denying the atrocities committed in Yugoslavia?

Chill BS. Obvious Troll is obvious.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Chill BS. Obvious Troll is obvious.

I know. I was kinda reverse baiting

 

[Old Spice]

Yugoslavia devolved into ethnic cleansing. That isn't success.

Yes it did, and based on what? The national question.

There's no escaping the fact that nationalism is poisonous ideology because its advocates, by necessity, have to confect stories about others and themselves. Its also very interesting to note that economic and political collapse is the pre-cursor to ethnic cleansing operations: Jews, Tutsis, Bosnians.

There was always latent and open anti-semitism in the Catholic / western tradition when things went awry. The reason being that the Jews always held their own tradition which was anathema to western Christianity.

Christian pogroms were repugnant, but it was based on a difference of beliefs. And religious belief, like any other, is fluid - you can switch over. Christianity didn't have any concept of ethnic, linguistic, cultural or geographical particularity as such. In that sense, it was multi-cultural.

p.s. I'm not being an apologist for Christian pogroms, just pointing out that the ideological envelope was not based on fixed categories outside of belief. Nationalists don't allow this malleability, they locate things physically.

 

[Malifice]

Yes it did, and based on what? The national question.

There's no escaping the fact that nationalism is poisonous ideology because its advocates, by necessity, have to confect stories about others and themselves. Its also very interesting to note that economic and political collapse is the pre-cursor to ethnic cleansing operations: Jews, Tutsis, Bosnians.

Exellent post.

It never ceases to amaze me the pro nationalists around these parts.

Theyll bang on about Islam being a dangerous ideology, while tacitly supporting nationalism (a far more dangerous one).

 

[R00StaR]

Well lets look at the most well known nationalists, the Nazis. Now dont get me wrong here, im not talking about all nazi's, there lots of peaceful nazis then and now. We only see the fringe element of neo nazi's today blowing shit up, beheading/ killing people ect, 99.9999999% are peace loving. But generally (i know how taboo that is, generalizing and tarring all the one people with the same brush, sorry) they believed in one section of their community to be superior, wanted to drive the others from their lands. Not a new concept, other ideologies have done similar, convert, become second class citizen or die.

But what they do in their own lands is up to them - its just cultural differences. We cant judge, look at the bad shit we've done! Actually even if they want to spread their ideology by the sword or using intimidation, fear, terror - we should call it work place violence and blame ourselves - surely its our fault somehow?

We shouldnt be so bigoted against the nazi's, most just want to live in peace. The fear mongering has to stop, you people actually think the peaceful nazi's could somehow rise in numbers enough to change our political system? lol crazy chicken little stuff.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

The reason that I ask this is that I'm wondering if multiculturalism is purely a recent enlightened invention.

There's nothing particularly "enlightened" about it.

It predominately exists to keep working class wages down and to maintain the political status quo in western societies.

/thread

 

[Upton Sinclair]

I'm a bird lover. I feed a range of wild birds that come onto my property. Recently I decided to build a cage and place hawks with doves, parrots with magpies, seagulls with chickens, owls with wagtails. Why am I going to do that? Because I believed all birds are equal and that they should all learn to live together in harmony and be respecting of each other. As time goes by I'm finding most have died from stress while others attack and feed off them, but I'm just going to keep placing and replacing them all in the same cage without end because I'm so certain that what I believe, will one day become a reality. I know I'm right because after all, all birds are the same.

If the discussion was about equality between primates and the immigration of monkeys and lemurs into the country then your analogy would make sense. As it is it makes you look like somebody who has a really poor grasp on biological diversity or a complete racist who thinks that different cultures are really different species.

 

[Malifice]

Now dont get me wrong here, im not talking about all nazi's, there lots of peaceful nazis then and now.

im out.

 

[The_Reaper]

Has Belguim being mentioned yet?

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

The Belgians are so evil. And even worse, they share a border with the Dutch!

 

[John]

the Dutch!

The Dutch!? I hate the Dutch.​

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[Eastern Rangers]

Perhaps the most obvious would be Moorish Iberia but these things are relative. Violence was a part of normal, everyday life.

 

[Old Spice]

Well lets look at the most well known nationalists, the Nazis. Now dont get me wrong here, im not talking about all nazi's, there lots of peaceful nazis then and now. We only see the fringe element of neo nazi's today blowing shit up, beheading/ killing people ect, 99.9999999% are peace loving. But generally (i know how taboo that is, generalizing and tarring all the one people with the same brush, sorry) they believed in one section of their community to be superior, wanted to drive the others from their lands. Not a new concept, other ideologies have done similar, convert, become second class citizen or die.

But what they do in their own lands is up to them - its just cultural differences. We cant judge, look at the bad shit we've done! Actually even if they want to spread their ideology by the sword or using intimidation, fear, terror - we should call it work place violence and blame ourselves - surely its our fault somehow?

We shouldnt be so bigoted against the nazi's, most just want to live in peace. The fear mongering has to stop, you people actually think the peaceful nazi's could somehow rise in numbers enough to change our political system? lol crazy chicken little stuff.

Hello wacko

 

[Malifice]

Hello wacko

He was attempting to be ironic by equating Islam to National Socialism, and appeasement to tolerance.

The true irony of course is that R00 supports strong ultra-nationalism and targetting religious and ethnic minorities himself, even though he professes to understand (and abhor) the Nazi party.

Ive even showed him how ultra nationalism invariably leads to genocide and war, and (as an ideology) has a death toll far higher than any religion in the history of human existence.

He doesnt understand that his own ideology that he clearly posseses is far worse than the one he clearly despises.

 

[R00StaR]

He was attempting to be ironic by equating Islam to National Socialism, and appeasement to tolerance.

The true irony of course is that R00 supports strong ultra-nationalism and targetting religious and ethnic minorities himself, even though he professes to understand (and abhor) the Nazi party.

Ive even showed him how ultra nationalism invariably leads to genocide and war, and (as an ideology) has a death toll far higher than any religion in the history of human existence.

He doesnt understand that his own ideology that he clearly posseses is far worse than the one he clearly despises.

Im having a dig yes, it shouldnt matter what i support as long as i dont hurt people myself right? You wouldnt know what parts of nationalism people do or dont support of that ideology - so dont make assumptions, right? No but you do all the time. Actually we could mass immigrate people of that mindset in such numbers that say in 50-100 they could become a majority and that would be fine - you wouldnt have to convert right?

Yet here you people openly appease and apologise for an ideology with clear and stated goals of taking over, implementing sharia law and making Islamic states yet people that oppose that idea your happy to throw around the generalizations. So Mal were all nazis bloody thirsty animals, were not many forced to fight, some paper pushers? Didnt stop us going into Germany and blowing the shit out of all of em did it, even Germans who weren't nazis?

Yeah its fine to peddle any ideology at all, provided they dont physically hurt anyone. We cant judge that ideology as we dont know what parts individual people actually believe in, to deny its growth makes us bigots, haters and racists (many lefties tell us ideologies have become races even). We all have the choice to convert or not so its all good, isnt that how it goes? Fair dinkum the double standards people use, so im ultra nationalist because i dont like crap ideologies that oppose our way of life. Yeah look about you and other lefties do exactly the same thing you dont like others doing. But Germans were white so its ok.

 

[Malifice]

You wouldnt know what parts of nationalism people do or dont support of that ideology - so dont make assumptions, right? No but you do all the time.

Ive seen nationalism before. Its a twisted an warped ideology based on a lie, no different to any religion.

In fact the only way its different is that it invariably leads to war. Its been rightly condemned and critiqued in acadmeic, legal, political and sociological circles since its inception.

Actually we could mass immigrate people of that mindset in such numbers that say in 50-100 they could become a majority and that would be fine - you wouldnt have to convert right?

A fallacy. When do you think such a thing is going to occur?

Yet here you people openly appease and apologise for an ideology with clear and stated goals of taking over, implementing sharia law and making Islamic states yet people that oppose that idea your happy to throw around the generalizations.

Prefaced upon the additional fallacy that there is a 'thing' called 'global Islam' that it is actively trying to 'take over'.

Which only exists in your mind.

Fair dinkum the double standards people use, so im ultra nationalist because i dont like crap ideologies that oppose our way of life. Yeah look about you and other lefties do exactly the same thing you dont like others doing. But Germans were white so its ok.

Firstly it wasnt OK because the Germans were 'white'.

Secondly ultra nationalism is a cancer based on a lie that has never been succesfull, never will be, and leads to genocide and war.

Clowns like you that support it are beyond contempt.