Mundy

[Bingles]

Cause it was a dumb thing to say?

Instead of everybody just saying "it was a stupid thing to say" - why don't you come up with a more equitable deal for Mundy?

I could say a lot of stupid things before the fact that come to fruition yet because I said it first it was considered a stupid thing to say.

I'll say this.... (example)

An AFL club will simply allow to walk, after one firm contract offer, one of the best in and under hard ball winners in the AFL. All fourteen other teams, many of which are dying out for a player of his caliber and skill set, will allow him to walk into the AFL Draft unhindered and get to his club of choice. Oh, and that club of choice happens to be a young team with massive signs of improvement who had just drafted one of the best ruck men in the league AND on top of all that made it to the preliminary final that year.

You'd all laugh at me. Tell me how stupid and idiotic that I was for suggesting such a thing. Yet that was exactly what happened with St Kilda and Luke Ball at the end of last year.

Now, defending The Gen further... If Mundy came out and said "I want to play at Carlton" and had a belief that he didn't give a rats ass what Fremantle got for him in trade or if they even got anything for him at all would his offer look all that stupid in the end? No. The alternative is that Mundy nominates for the draft and gets his way to Carlton the same way Ball got to Collingwood.

Oh, and I know that there will be a lot of naysayers among you who cry "But we're Carlton and we're different, the other teams wont play by the same unwritten rule." I call b/s and plead with you to get out of your victim stance and "woe is me." If any team was any different then it was last year with Ball and Collingwood. No doubt that Ball was going to help Collingwood and a lot of other clubs. The only risk was his body. No doubt Ball at Collingwood positioned them a lot closer to a premiership.

If that's what Gen would offer the Dockers then I don't blame him one iota. To me it's a low ball offer but if Mundy came out and nominated Carlton then perhaps they couldn't do much if any better anyway and that deal becomes market price.

 

[Weiterbot23]

The Ball situation was different. He had concerns with his body and was asking for $500k. No one was willing to pay it.

Mundy is versitile, is fast, good skills, good size, gets his own ball, can play inside and out. He's like a mini Judd, but has better skills than the great man.

Mundy wouldn't be able to get where he wants (victoria) through the PSD because the GC have 5 picks and unlimited cash. C

The only way we could get him is in a trade, and it would be a bidding war between us and every other interested victorian club. It's like Jacobs, rumour is he wants to go to an SA club, all we can do is let them bid against each other and we get what we get, or he could walk to the psd (unlikely).

When you consider that we would have to part with a Walker and pick 18, plus pay mundy 550k a year, the prospect of getting him is less attractive.

 

[baconb]

Would be in our best 22, but is it easy to find mids like we keep hearing?

Mundy was pick 19 after Freo drafted Ryley Dunn with pick ten.

Our supporters would have overreacted again if we had traded pick 11 for Mundy last year.

Sorry but completely disagree. I would be stoked to get Mundy with pick 18 and if it were last yr pick 11 I would be happy too. I watch mundy alot he can play all over and would help us out big time. Go hard!

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

Instead of everybody just saying "it was a stupid thing to say" - why don't you come up with a more equitable deal for Mundy?

I could say a lot of stupid things before the fact that come to fruition yet because I said it first it was considered a stupid thing to say.

I actually think pick 18 + a player would be a decent starting point for Mundy if the powers that be decided we want him. He is a top shelf talent and would add to our midfield. However, if the powers that be instead decided that our resources are better spent elsewhere, I would not have a particular problem with that either as, like TG, I think we have other of need.

To say that he's not even worth pick 18 and Browne (who has zero value on the trade table) was what I was taking umbrage with. If the club could get him for pick 18 and Browne I would hope we bite Freo's hands off.

 

[scomac]

It has been reported he wants to come back to Victoria, the West states Freo are close to a new deal.C Wilson is Guessing as usual it was reported Essendon and Richmond are interested but a player of his ability will be in high demand and i would assume he would not leave a side that clearly will play finals to go to one that wont.

 

[blueboy25]

If caroline wilson is saying Mundy is heading back to victoria you can be pretty much guaranteed he will re-sign with the dockers within a couple of days.

 

[djw1952]

I don't mind people saying that they would prefer to keep their first round pick, but to say pick 18 is overs for Mundy I think is wrong. It might not suit Carlton's needs and timeframe, but he is a talent.

I also dislike when anyones supporters throw in a crap player into a trade and all of a sudden it becomes fair.

Pick 34 + Browne + Thornton + Fisher + Tiller + Johnson for Ablett. Look we've given them a pick and 5 players, what an amazing deal.

very true !!! it`s the collingwood syndrome of trading, and if your club offers crap, then no deals get done !!! with supporters it`s just plain selfish dreaming.

 

[AlphaBlue]

dont really need mundy, we have enough mids

 

[Jeremias]

dont really need mundy, we have enough mids

Incorrect.

As has been said time and time again, a team simply cannot have enough quality midfielders.

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Can't have enough quality midfielders
Cant have enough quality fwds
Cant have enough quality bcks
Cant half enough quality talls
Cant have enough quality utilities etc.

Most important of all, you cant have enough of the right balance

 

[GoBlues!]

Incorrect.

As has been said time and time again, a team simply cannot have enough quality midfielders.

True to an extent - but hypothetically if you had say 10 quality midfielders in the team and a glaring deficiency/need for a KPP in defence, who would you go for if you had the choice of a quality KPD or a quality midfielder?

 

[Jeremias]

True to an extent - but hypothetically if you had say 10 quality midfielders in the team and a glaring deficiency/need for a KPP in defence, who would you go for if you had the choice of a quality KPD or a quality midfielder?

Depends where in the draft it is.

Earlier picks = best available, regardless of what sort of player.

Later picks can be used to try and fix any perceived deficiencies.

This argument has been covered 1,000,000+ times on this board already. My stance has not changed, nor will it.

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Depends where in the draft it is.

Earlier picks = best available, regardless of what sort of player.

Later picks can be used to try and fix any perceived deficiencies.

This argument has been covered 1,000,000+ times on this board already. My stance has not changed, nor will it.

To be fair, this is WHs preference. There has been plenty of statements in the public arena in recent times that needs will decide picks 5-20. Pelchen is an advocate of needs, Rendell from Adelaide is also a fan of stating this type of thing in public.

Best available but within reason would be the honest truth. Even now we are finding clubs picking home grown talent to ensure their is no go home factor! That falls more in to the not best available basket.

 

[GoBlues!]

Depends where in the draft it is.

Earlier picks = best available, regardless of what sort of player.

Later picks can be used to try and fix any perceived deficiencies.

This argument has been covered 1,000,000+ times on this board already. My stance has not changed, nor will it.

I'm not trying to change your stance, I'm trying to understand it. Are you saying if Carlton had an early first round pick and we could either pick up a player like a Michael Hurley or a Tom Scully - given our current list, you would pick Scully over Hurley?

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

I'm not trying to change your stance, I'm trying to understand it. Are you saying if Carlton had an early first round pick and we could either pick up a player like a Michael Hurley or a Tom Scully - given our current list, you would pick Scully over Hurley?

Yes, he is saying that. We had this discussion last year (last draft time) and there are 50+ posters on this board who say best available regardless...so that would be Skully or Trengove over Hurley.

And, they would say, not even a close decision...a no brainer in favour of Skully.

 

[blues4flag]

I'm not trying to change your stance, I'm trying to understand it. Are you saying if Carlton had an early first round pick and we could either pick up a player like a Michael Hurley or a Tom Scully - given our current list, you would pick Scully over Hurley?

I would. If there wasn't much at all separating the two, then you'd go for needs but Scully went at 1 and Hurley at 6, so that suggests a fairly significant difference in quality (though of course there's no certainties in drafting).

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

I would. If there wasn't much at all separating the two, then you'd go for needs but Scully went at 1 and Hurley at 6, so that suggests a fairly significant difference in quality (though of course there's no certainties in drafting).

Hurley went at 5, not 6.

No doubt a Hurley type would help Carlton more going fwd from 2009/2010 onwards.

 

[Sir CJ]

dont really need mundy, we have enough mids

mate you are so wrong there, our depth of midfield "quality" is poor, we need to build our midfield depth, aside from Judd, Murph and Gibbsy (when he's in there) we don't have any other class player in there, and it would only help our midfield rotations getting a player of Mundy's quality, it's one of the biggest myths in football that we have one of the best midfields, sure our top midfielders are excellent but there's no depth there

I just think we would have to give up to much for him unfortunately

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

mate you are so wrong there, our depth of midfield "quality" is poor, we need to build our midfield depth, aside from Judd, Murph and Gibbsy (when he's in there) we don't have any other class player in there, and it would only help our midfield rotations getting a player of Mundy's quality, it's one of the biggest myths in football that we have one of the best midfields, sure our top midfielders are excellent but there's no depth there

I just think we would have to give up to much for him unfortunately

List the midfields that are ahead of us - maybe 4-5 teams AT MOST. Are we bottom 8 in mids? We are def bottom 4 in defenders And we are bottom 6 in fwd lines

Judd
Murph
Gibbs
Mclean

Pinch hitters...
Simpson
Scotland - Buckley (will be drafted father/son in 1 year to replace Scotland)
Grigg
Yarran (soon with fitness based on WH draft spiel)
Lucas (soon with development)


PS
Kruezer is also an extra midfielder

Yes, we need more mids but focus should be in other areas first!

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Just goes to show just how important it is to have capable mid fielders, and plenty of them.

Look at the above 4:

Judd: Missed first 3 games, which may have cost us a game and possibly even two.
Murphy: Dealing with hip all season. We didn't really see the best of him
Gibbs: Sent back to plug other gaps. Couldn't really call him a mid.
Mclean: Injured all year. Nothing to really assess him on.

Mundy: If we can, we get him.
This will in no way hinder the progression of Lucas, Yarran or any other prospective mid coming through the ranks.

Let's do it.

If you apply that logic to our backline, it is much scarier than our midfield. We dont have anyone who wins more than half their one-on-one defensive battles. They may run off and create and play great loose defenders, but we really lack defensive defender roles

 

[Faz 2000]

I think Sir CJ is bang on about our midfield being overrated. People love to say it's one of the best in the league, and they list Judd, Murphy, Gibbs... then trail off.

Judd-Murphy... sure, that's a strong start. Gibbs is playing in the backline. Simpson would be our next middy picked, and he's quality, no doubt. But after that it gets pretty damn choppy.

Another 1-2 class midfielders would push us over the top in the midfield. Now they don't just grow on trees, but to say we don't need one is not correct in my opinion.

Whether it's our BIGGEST need... that's a different query.

 

[gbatman]

Our midfield is over rated. Judd's a gun. Gibbs was unable to hold his place in our midfield. He was not just sent out of the center to fill gaps. Murphy was dissapointing with his inconsistant approach to the way he plays. Grigg was very good at the end of the season but is not star. Ellard and Hadley filled gaps adequately. Mclean has hardley played and has proven nothing. Kreuzer was missed. Simpson can't beat a tag. Scotland can't find consistancy. Carrazzo has been good but him and Mundy are chalk and cheese.

This is not to say that our young players wont be stars and wont make the quality of players in the the AA squad. The AA squad selection is hopefully a bit of an eye opener with none of our midfielders making the squad appart from Judd. Where as Mundy did make the squad.

A quality player of Mundy's type would be a very big and valuable thing for Carlton as we still have not got enough tough inside onballers and the ones we do have can't seem to run really well. Lets hope things change but the value of players who are this type and good at it is greatly underrated.

 

[ESKIE]

Our midfield is over rated. Judd's a gun. Gibbs was unable to hold his place in our midfield. He was not just sent out of the center to fill gaps. Murphy was dissapointing with his inconsistant approach to the way he plays. Grigg was very good at the end of the season but is not star. Ellard and Hadley filled gaps adequately. Mclean has hardley played and has proven nothing. Kreuzer was missed. Simpson can't beat a tag. Scotland can't find consistancy. Carrazzo has been good but him and Mundy are chalk and cheese.

This is not to say that our young players wont be stars and wont make the quality of players in the the AA squad. The AA squad selection is hopefully a bit of an eye opener with none of our midfielders making the squad appart from Judd. Where as Mundy did make the squad.

A quality player of Mundy's type would be a very big and valuable thing for Carlton as we still have not got enough tough inside onballers and the ones we do have can't seem to run really well. Lets hope things change but the value of players who are this type and good at it is greatly underrated.

Crap...

Murphy had an op on his groin I think, if you recall in January and a massive interrupted pre-season, his form in our last 4 games was excellent...Muphy is a gun I cannot believe your comments.

Our midfield is our strength...Mark Fine on SEN had Murphy in his AA squad...but really why are you hanging your hat on the AA squad....big deal really.

 

[Silvagnis]

Our midfield is over rated. Judd's a gun. Gibbs was unable to hold his place in our midfield. He was not just sent out of the center to fill gaps. Murphy was dissapointing with his inconsistant approach to the way he plays. Grigg was very good at the end of the season but is not star. Ellard and Hadley filled gaps adequately. Mclean has hardley played and has proven nothing. Kreuzer was missed. Simpson can't beat a tag. Scotland can't find consistancy. Carrazzo has been good but him and Mundy are chalk and cheese.

This is not to say that our young players wont be stars and wont make the quality of players in the the AA squad. The AA squad selection is hopefully a bit of an eye opener with none of our midfielders making the squad appart from Judd. Where as Mundy did make the squad.

For your own sake, stop putting up terrible arguments.

If we had have traded pick 11 for Mundy last year, I'm betting Mclean's critics would have been the first to say it was a stupid, or even a redundant trade.

If we can trade back into the first round, then I'd be all for getting Mundy.

Even it's a compromised draft, we shouldn't underestimate first round draft picks and what we might get it.

Few supporters were against the Mclean trade, yet it's not hard to find Carlton supporters whining about pick 11 in 2010.

The cost of Mundy would be pick 18 and a player of value.

Two for one deals stink.

 

[gbatman]

Fine about Murphy, the OP thing knocked his season around a fair bit but I would have liked to see him harder at the footy for the whole game and win his own ball when the situation came for him to do so. This part of his game had nothing to do with fitness. The final against the Swans was a classic example of his season. The first half he just wasn't there mentally. Couldn't get a kick and wouldn't do the hard things and there were many situations where he had to go and didn't. Then he came out at half time and did the exact opposite and came out fired up and attacked the footy with purpose and was a big part of getting us back in that game. He was brilliant. But the thing is this had been happening all year. He'd go missing and it had to do with mentality as much as a lack of a good preseason. My opinion is it's just a lack of mental maturity. Next year if he can stay switched on for 4 quarters and the whole season like he did in the last half of footy he played he'll walk into the AA team and I recon with a bit more mental maturity and a decent preseason he probably will. This year though he lacked consistancy, next year's his chance to break out.

Gibbs was much the same. Still plays the game like a boy, which is fair enought seeing that's what he is. He'd often go missing playing on the ball and would often be unable to get a kick. Would play hard and tough and win the contested footy in spurts but at other times he'd go missing. We were looking for more grunt and consistancy in the center and also for a bit more class down back. It wasn't only because we needed more class down back that Gibbs was moved there. He like Murphy will hopefully mature into an elite footballer.

TG Why would you say "If we had have traded pick 11 for Mundy last year, I'm betting Mclean's critics would have been the first to say it was a stupid, or even a redundant trade"? Seeing Mcleans critics are justified to an extent as seeing in 2010 Mclean has only played about 3 good AFL games, a couple of shockers and been out injured for the rest while Mundy made the 2010 AA squad and will likely push for B&F in a team that finished higer than us? Mundy is a similar player to Mclean except he doesn't have the "slow" tag. He's a bit more flexibal in that he can run and get free to get the ball when we win the thing better than Mclean appears to be able to do. I'm not saying Mclean is no good, I think he can be great. But 'can' and 'will' are two different things.

What Mundy's worth is a dificult question. Sure if he wants to come to Vic that's great. We might have to do more than "out bid" the other clubs. We might have to give Freo what they want as he might not want to go into the draft. It's a shame they aren't looking for a ruckman, then again if they had two rucks and played Johnson forward it would be good for them as they could do with another tall forward.

I agree about your point about underrating the first round draft pick, there should be decent players at that stage still.