Murphy..

[mollyfud]

Question: If your analysis of the cats game shows Murphy not staying with SJ, getting drawn up the ground and out of position, peeling off at the wrong time, getting caught between his man and marking contests, not helping out to spoil and when he helps out not impacting the contest and leaving his man on the ground, and not providing sufficient pressure on SJ once the ball hits the ground, would it change your opinion of Murphy? I'd say the answer is no. So why do you think it would change anyone else's mind if the video shows him to have played a blinder (or even a passable game)?

It would confirm he had a bad game and if in the 1st and 2nd quarter, that would change my opinion of the game. Now in saying that, will say that the possessions are in the Cats defensive side of the ground way on his own (i.e. not beating Murph in the contest), I won't be blaming Murph for that as it to me (and will be interested in others feeling of it) is part of the game plan for a Murph type defender to let a guy like SteveJ go free up field.

On changing others opinion, the first video proved to me two things, the game I thought he had, he had. Secondly, that if your against him, you will pick every negitively about his game you can even if they are grossly unfair (see that list of 8 items).

Plus if I do the video, it will meet your request for a video of him v a x-factor forward! Even though he wasn't put in the AA team, I think we will agree that SteveJ is arguably the best x-factor type forward in the league (especially that doesn't play for the Hawks).

 

[Brishawk]

It would confirm he had a bad game and if in the 1st and 2nd quarter, that would change my opinion of the game. Now in saying that, will say that the possessions are in the Cats defensive side of the ground way on his own (i.e. not beating Murph in the contest), I won't be blaming Murph for that as it to me (and will be interested in others feeling of it) is part of the game plan for a Murph type defender to let a guy like SteveJ go free up field.

On changing others opinion, the first video proved to me two things, the game I thought he had, he had. Secondly, that if your against him, you will pick every negitively about his game you can even if they are grossly unfair (see that list of 8 items).

Plus if I do the video, it will meet your request for a video of him v a x-factor forward! Even though he wasn't put in the AA team, I think we will agree that SteveJ is arguably the best x-factor type forward in the league (especially that doesn't play for the Hawks).

Ok sure but can you not see that even your video of the swans game was viewed differently by different people. It still had no objective/absolute value. Just as we disagree on whether Murphy's spoil on Jameson was poor or not, people can look at the same thing and respond differently. You saw Murphy's attempt as a valiant effort to help a team mate that went wrong where I see it as a poor attempt to spoil which reinforces my opinion that he is not very good at spoiling. Who is right? Neither and both. The difference is I don't go around condemning everyone that has view similar to yourself.

The reason I was asking for a video was to hold you to your own standards and point out the irony of how easily you made a judgement on Cheney in the same way people make judgements about Murphy. I don't think your opinion is wrong and am happy for you to support it in anyway you like so long as you don't go around screaming that Cheney sucks etc. or attacking posters for having a different opinion.

 

[Hawthorn4ever]

[YOUTUBE]GagPj3l78i8[/YOUTUBE]

There is my evidence number 1! Can I suggest that those wanting Cheney over Murph could go through the first Pies game the Cheney played for his video!

Rules of video:
Show basically everytime the player in question is on screen good or bad (whatever you can say about my arguments, that video above is warts and all the game of Murphy!!!!! If anything was missed it was a mistake or wasn't shown on camera).

I will endeavour, in the interest of fairness, to try and do the same this for the Cats game, one that wasn't Murph's best. I personally interested to see if I am indeed right that his first half was pretty good (especially considering the opposition).

You know what, and no promises, throw me a Cheney game you think shows his best outing and I will endeavour to do the same thing for him! I can honestly say it is a great exercise to take!

geez this video further highlights how atrocious he is as an afl footballer..

not commenting on his personal character

 

[Cynic]

geez this video further highlights how atrocious he is as an afl footballer..

not commenting on his personal character

Geez this post further highlights how atrocious you are as a poster on Big Footy.

Not commenting on your personal character.

 

[mollyfud]

Ok sure but can you not see that even your video of the swans game was viewed differently by different people. It still had no objective/absolute value. Just as we disagree on whether Murphy's spoil on Jameson was poor or not, people can look at the same thing and respond differently. You saw Murphy's attempt as a valiant effort to help a team mate that went wrong where I see it as a poor attempt to spoil which reinforces my opinion that he is not very good at spoiling. Who is right? Neither and both. The difference is I don't go around condemning everyone that has view similar to yourself.

The reason I was asking for a video was to hold you to your own standards and point out the irony of how easily you made a judgement on Cheney in the same way people make judgements about Murphy. I don't think your opinion is wrong and am happy for you to support it in anyway you like so long as you don't go around screaming that Cheney sucks etc. or attacking posters for having a different opinion.

I expect to change no ones opinion but I can not sit around and see crap posted about a hard working Hawks player! If people are sick of it:
a) Don't post crap!
b) Report me to the mods. If I get kicked off for defending a hawks player unfairly critisied, I can live with my self! I cant sit around and watch the crap. I feel (rightly or wrongly) that the amount of crap spoke about Murph on this thread has dropped either through people losing interest or what ever. Don't care.

To clear it up, I don't think you are talking crap. You are putting forward points that I disagree with. That can be debated but some posts are just crap !

 

[dermott]

Well, there you have it. 180 posts and no one has changed their mind about the pro's and con's of Thomas Murphy.
Time to concentrate on the game!!!!

 

[The Kipster]

Well, there you have it. 180 posts and no one has changed their mind about the pro's and con's of Thomas Murphy.
Time to concentrate on the game!!!!

Hahahaha...well played

 

[mollyfud]

Well, there you have it. 180 posts and no one has changed their mind about the pro's and con's of Thomas Murphy.
Time to concentrate on the game!!!!

Don't you think the number of positive posts about Murph have gone up by about 1000%? Okay, they are all from me, but baby steps man, baby steps!

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Don't you think the number of positive posts about Murph have gone up by about 1000%? Okay, they are all from me, but baby steps man, baby steps!

You're not quite using Jedi mind tricks to change perceptions though Molly.

 

[mollyfud]

You're not quite using Jedi mind tricks to change perceptions though Molly.

These aren't the player your looking for to bag!
You can go about your business
Move along!
;-)

 

[mollyfud]

Sorry guys:

Full AFL teams, 5pm - bit.ly/gVtuxJ Haw v Coll - unchanged.

(Patrick Keane Twitter)

 

[Cynic]

Sorry guys:

(Patrick Keane Twitter)

Meh, it's win-win for the mob now.

Win, we're in the GF and get another week of calling for his head
Lose, it's all Murphy's fault and their views are not only completely justified and reasonable, they also should be tattooed onto the heads of those supporting Murphy for good measure.

 

[mollyfud]

Meh, it's win-win for the mob now.

Win, we're in the GF and get another week of calling for his head
Lose, it's all Murphy's fault and their views are not only completely justified and reasonable, they also should be tattooed onto the heads of those supporting Murphy for good measure.

Agghhhhh....Now I have thought of this already! To over come this, win or lose I am leaving the country for a week! ;-) (unfortunately this isn't a joke, have to go to boston for work )

 

[The Kipster]

Agghhhhh....Now I have thought of this already! To over come this, win or lose I am leaving the country for a week! ;-) (unfortunately this isn't a joke, have to go to boston for work )

take Murph with you, problem solved

 

[mollyfud]

take Murph with you, problem solved

Kyle is actually my bag man for the trip!

 

[Brown n Gold]

Cant believe it.... Gutted for Murphy that he has been dropped on the eve of his biggest ever game...

You haters have a lot to answer for... I blame you, I think Clarko reads this forum and has taken all of you Muph haters word for it that he is no good.

 

[The Big Shaqtus]

I am the biggest Tom Murphy hater there would be in Victoria, when he gets the ball, I cringe. But behind my hatred for him i absolutely trust him against the teams small forward, countless occasions he's dominated the likes of, Steve Johnson and Steven Milne. He IS a good defender, just not a good footballer. I would have though that he would be one of the first picked in our back line each week.

 

[Hawker55]

That's pretty much it. When he doesn't have the ball he's magnificent on his player. It's when he has the ball that I worry.

 

[The Kipster]

Kyle is actually my bag man for the trip!

haha....

 

[Thaihawk]

Should we give Murph the job on Heath Shaw, tonight?

 

[Cynic]

I am the biggest Tom Murphy hater there would be in Victoria, when he gets the ball, I cringe. But behind my hatred for him i absolutely trust him against the teams small forward, countless occasions he's dominated the likes of, Steve Johnson and Steven Milne. He IS a good defender, just not a good footballer. I would have though that he would be one of the first picked in our back line each week.

Is definitely some truth to that comment but probably over-stated. Generally Murphy is a good kick with good skills, the Tom Murphy Recipe for Disasterous Disposals includes;

Short kicks under pressure
Handballing with an opponent within 25m

Murphy's biggest flaw is that he is often far too keen to handball to a player 2 metres away often in a worse position. This may even be a team rule as we have a lot of exceptional kicks in our back half but honestly I think that this represents a lot of his perceived disposal/decision making issues.

 

[mollyfud]

Should we give Murph the job on Heath Shaw, tonight?

Nah, not as good in the forward tag as (as many have stated) he isn't attacking enough.

In fact, and its only from the Swans game I watched all his plays for for the video, I would hesitate to guess he is almost set for the deepest playing small/medium forward but I don't have proof that is a permanent positioning.

 

[Hawkzzz]

Gee there are nearly 200 posts on Murphy. Wow.

For mine, he's a very experienced player and I think we have enough inexperienced players in the line up.

Mind you, these inexperienced guys in Pup, Smith, Suckling, Bailey, Shiels and Whitecross have had breakout seasons.

(These guys are the reason we're a red hot chance).

Schoenmakers now has Birchall, Stratton, Gibson and Murphy as tallish players to help him. But I also think it's the experience they have playing with one another (along with their own footy experience) that is most important. If you take out Murphy and replace him with Cheney I think it looks a bit too inexperienced for such a huge game.

I don't think we'll win or lose this game due to Murphy. For mine, the roll of the dice is Shoe vs Lisle. I think Lisle reads the ball better in the air and takes more grabs. However, Shoe is better when it hits the deck. (that's a different debate).

Tough call. But Murphy, imo, is not the issue. When he was playing at his best, he was backing his judgement and taking more marks. I would love to see him go for his marks if he's in the best position. Same goes for the other defenders. They would all do well to look at the West Coast defence and try to gently block the run of Cloke and Dawes. Body contact and positioning.

At least try. Going on the West Coast v Carlton game, the umps are more lenient in finals as long as it's not over the top.

The teams are in and I am trying to relay as much positive energy by backing the Hawks. Murphy is one of many that will leave everything on the field tonight.

Go Hawkers.

 

[Brishawk]

Nah, not as good in the forward tag as (as many have stated) he isn't attacking enough.

In fact, and its only from the Swans game I watched all his plays for for the video, I would hesitate to guess he is almost set for the deepest playing small/medium forward but I don't have proof that is a permanent positioning.

Yeah he normally takes the deepest player but sometimes seems to just run with a particular player . . . pending match ups I guess.

I'd say he will take blair as he seems the prototype opponent for Murphy and he matched up on him last time.

 

[Rowie6]

Watching the replay.. And call me a hater but I seriously don't understand what he brings to the team accept "leadership". Yes it's about structures but he doesn't offer any rebound or punch or take marks?

Why go down this path again he has been doing a good job most weeks and i am sure the coaches at Hawthorn have more clues than you,have some faith in the people that are in place to make these decisions.Go Hawkers