My top 50

[cricketnut14]

Something to do while in lockdown.

This is similar to a footy top 50 i guess.

I have ranked Australia's top 50 players.

The criteria I have used is:
- only considered players that played a minimum of 25 tests after WSC (this includes 8 current players)
(this made voges, s.clark, may and a few others ineligible for the sake of this exercise)
- didn't really take into account their feats in odi and T20I cricket
- took into account longevity in the game

Happy for you guys to pick the bones out of this, as I'm sure some of it may be controversial.

50. Tim Paine*
49. Andrew Symonds
48. Shane Watson
47. Phil Hughes
46. Michael Kasprowicz
45. Greg Matthews
44. Usman Khawaja*
43. Chris Rogers
42. Darren Lehmann
41. Peter Siddle

40. Geoff Lawson
39. Paul Reiffel
38. Stuart MacGill
37. Michael Slater
36. Simon Katich
35. Bruce Reid
34. Ryan Harris
33. Brett Lee
32. Brad Haddin
31. Damien Martyn

30. Merv Hughes
29. Terry Alderman
28. Mitchell Starc*
27. Craig McDermott
26. Josh Hazlewood*
25. Dean Jones
24. Mark Waugh
23. Kim Hughes
22. Nathan Lyon*
21. Mitchell Johnson

20. David Boon
19. Justin Langer
18. Mark Taylor
17. David Warner*
16. Rod Marsh
15. Ian Healy
14. Michael Clarke
13. Jason Gillsepie
12. Pat Cummins*
11. Mike Hussey

10. Matthew Hayden
9. Steve Waugh
8. Allan Border
7. Steve Smith*
6. Adam Gilchrist
5. Glenn McGrath
4. Dennis Lillee
3. Greg Chappell
2. Ricky Ponting
1. Shane Warne

 

[GROTTO]

So you only considered players that played a minimum of 25 tests after WSC, but didn't really take into account their feats in ODI and T20I cricket.

Bradman is rolling in his grave.

 

[cricketnut14]

So you only considered players that played a minimum of 25 tests after WSC, but didn't really take into account their feats in ODI and T20I cricket.

Bradman is rolling in his grave.

yeah the champion test players are champions in any form.
you couldn't say that my top 10 weren't odi stars.

end of the day the only real movers would've been symonds, watson, starc and m.waugh.

some of these players didn't get the opportunity to play T20I's as well.

 

[GROTTO]

yeah the champion test players are champions in any form.
you couldn't say that my top 10 weren't odi stars.

end of the day the only real movers would've been symonds, watson and m.waugh.

some of these players didn't get the opportunity to play T20I's as well.

Its a tough list to compile and very easy for me or anyone else to sit back and take pot shots.

The interesting aspect of your Top 50, is that you have 3 wicketkeepers inside the top 20. In terms of glovework alone, probably Healy/Marsh over Gilly.

 

[PhatBoy]

My list will also factor in their importance to australian cricket a bit, I’ll think of 11-20 when I’m not playing game of thrones Risk with my kids. I’ve probably already left out someone obvious

1. Shane Warne
2. Allan Border
3. Dennis Lillee
4. Steve Smith
5. Greg Chappell
6. Glenn McGrath
7. Ricky Ponting
8. Adam Gilchrist
9. Steve Waugh
10. Michael Clarke

 

[cricketnut14]

Its a tough list to compile and very easy for me or anyone else to sit back and take pot shots.

The interesting aspect of your Top 50, is that you have 3 wicketkeepers inside the top 20. In terms of glovework alone, probably Healy/Marsh over Gilly.

there's no doubt gilchrist was the better allround player and would feature in most people's alltime XI and yep hard to split healy and marsh as the best gloveman, even statistically, even their batting.

with unofficial tests marsh has 418 dismissals.

 

[GROTTO]

there's no doubt gilchrist was the better allround player and would feature in most people's alltime XI and yep hard to split healy and marsh as the best gloveman, even statistically, even their batting.

with unofficial tests marsh has 418 dismissals.

While its true that looking at dismissals plays a massive role in determining the better keeper, there is no doubt just from the naked eye test that Healy was better than Gilly. (Cant comment on Marsh).

With that said, I would take Gilly over Healy if I was picking a Test XI.

 

[corbies]

Obviously a difficult list to compile and I congratulate you on giving it a go but I'm going to stick up for my boy Watto here as I can't see how Kazprowicz is even close to him as a Test cricketer. They have near identical bowling averages but Watson averaged 35 with the bat. Kasper obviously had a big heart and had some great series but geez he had some terrible series mixed in with it.

Also I assume 33 is meant to be Brett Lee .

Clarke probably a bit low as well. I don't think I could say he was a worse Test cricketer than Mike Hussey despite Hussey averaging more than Clarke. For all Husseys great qualities (and I loved him as a player) he did have a tendancy to make alot of easy runs.

 

[11kgm]

Smith over Ponting

My list will also factor in their importance to australian cricket a bit, I’ll think of 11-20 when I’m not playing game of thrones Risk with my kids. I’ve probably already left out someone obvious

1. Shane Warne
2. Allan Border
3. Dennis Lillee
4. Steve Smith
5. Greg Chappell
6. Glenn McGrath
7. Ricky Ponting
8. Adam Gilchrist
9. Steve Waugh
10. Michael Clarke

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[PhatBoy]

Smith over Ponting

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

well his record doesn’t need defending (albeit he’s still got the almost inevitable later career decline in front of him) and he’s done most of his work in a mediocre side. From Ponting’s debut almost to his retirement he was in the best side in the world. I think the load Smith has carries earns him a few points

 

[worbod]

Out of curiosity, how many Aussies have played 25 Tests or more since WSC?

 

[t_94]

1. Warne
2. Lillee
3. Gilchrist
4. Mcgrath
5. Smith
6. Ponting
7. G.Chappell
8. Border
9. S.Waugh
10. Clarke

 

[cricketnut14]

Out of curiosity, how many Aussies have played 25 Tests or more since WSC?

80 odd, including the marsh boys

 

[cricketnut14]

1. Warne
2. Lillee
3. Gilchrist
4. Mcgrath
5. Smith
6. Ponting
7. G.Chappell
8. Border
9. S.Waugh
10. Clarke

well so far the guys that have done a top 10 have included 9 of the same and only pup clarke instead of haydos.

just the order varies slightly.

i'm interested to see if someone here would put someone else in their top 10, other than clarke thats outside my top 10.

 

[cricketnut14]

so if i'm picking a side with team balance from the top 12 ranked players, my side would look like this: (ranking next to name)

10. M.Hayden
11. M.Hussey
2. R.Ponting
7. S.Smith
3. G.Chappell
8. A.Border
6. A.Gilchrist
1. S.Warne
12. P.Cummins
4. D.Lillee
5. G.McGrath

9. S.Waugh

 

[cricketnut14]

My list will also factor in their importance to australian cricket a bit, I’ll think of 11-20 when I’m not playing game of thrones Risk with my kids. I’ve probably already left out someone obvious

1. Shane Warne
2. Allan Border
3. Dennis Lillee
4. Steve Smith
5. Greg Chappell
6. Glenn McGrath
7. Ricky Ponting
8. Adam Gilchrist
9. Steve Waugh
10. Michael Clarke

still waiting on your 11-20

 

[DaRick]

A few things:

1) cricketnut14 - when you say "after WSC" I take that to mean 1 Dec 1979, which was the first non-WSC Test that former WSC players participated in. I take it you have no objections with this?

2) RE a legend like Dennis Lillee, he wasn't quite as effective across his remaining 38 Tests due to age/injury (he fell off notably in his last two seasons). I assume that you are assessing his career as a whole, not just the last 38 Tests?

3) Is it fair to say that you played Warne as #1 because he all-but brought leg-spin back from the dead (Qadir notwithstanding)? I understand he played 145 Tests, but he was also a revolutionary, charismatic, captivating influence IMO. Could it be fair to conclude that 'Impact' and 'Influence' are also some of your criteria? Is Lillee ranked at #4 for similar reasons?

I have my issues with your rankings (not too many, mind), but I will discuss them in due course.

 

[Prince Barry]

Something to do while in lockdown.

This is similar to a footy top 50 i guess.

I have ranked Australia's top 50 players.

The criteria I have used is:
- only considered players that played a minimum of 25 tests after WSC (this includes 8 current players)
(this made voges, s.clark, may and a few others ineligible for the sake of this exercise)
- didn't really take into account their feats in odi and T20I cricket
- took into account longevity in the game

Happy for you guys to pick the bones out of this, as I'm sure some of it may be controversial.

50. Tim Paine*
49. Andrew Symonds
48. Shane Watson
47. Phil Hughes
46. Michael Kasprowicz
45. Greg Matthews
44. Usman Khawaja*
43. Chris Rogers
42. Darren Lehmann
41. Peter Siddle

40. Geoff Lawson
39. Paul Reiffel
38. Stuart MacGill
37. Michael Slater
36. Simon Katich
35. Bruce Reid
34. Ryan Harris
33. Brett Lee
32. Brad Haddin
31. Damien Martyn

30. Merv Hughes
29. Terry Alderman
28. Mitchell Starc*
27. Craig McDermott
26. Josh Hazlewood*
25. Dean Jones
24. Mark Waugh
23. Kim Hughes
22. Nathan Lyon*
21. Mitchell Johnson

20. David Boon
19. Justin Langer
18. Mark Taylor
17. David Warner*
16. Rod Marsh
15. Ian Healy
14. Michael Clarke
13. Jason Gillsepie
12. Pat Cummins*
11. Mike Hussey

10. Matthew Hayden
9. Steve Waugh
8. Allan Border
7. Steve Smith*
6. Adam Gilchrist
5. Glenn McGrath
4. Dennis Lillee
3. Greg Chappell
2. Ricky Ponting
1. Shane Warne

Gilchrist number one for me.He changed the way the game was played and was the most destructive batsman in the world for years whilst also wicket keeping.
No one else scored that quickly .He often would decide a test result in one session.
He also had very few not outs and often gave his wicket away for the team when we were 8 or 9 down.
People forget Warne was a convicted drug cheat, (diuretics and steroids for his shouder), he was the teflon shane with that one.
He also defrauded his own charity and gave his brother all the charity money and lied about Joe the cameraman and still does.
Gilchrist also 'walked' when not given out, his true batting average was probably 5 runs higher if you take all that into account.

 

[cricketnut14]

A few things:

1) - when you say "after WSC" I take that to mean 1 Dec 1979, which was the first non-WSC Test that former WSC players participated in. I take it you have no objections with this?

2) RE a legend like Dennis Lillee, he wasn't quite as effective across his remaining 38 Tests due to age/injury (he fell off notably in his last two seasons). I assume that you are assessing his career as a whole, not just the last 38 Tests?

3) Is it fair to say that you played Warne as #1 because he all-but brought leg-spin back from the dead (Qadir notwithstanding)? I understand he played 145 Tests, but he was also a revolutionary, charismatic, captivating influence IMO. Could it be fair to conclude that 'Impact' and 'Influence' are also some of your criteria? Is Lillee ranked at #4 for similar reasons?

I have my issues with your rankings (not too many, mind), but I will discuss them in due course.

to your points above:

1) yes to after dec 1, 1979
2) yes to assessing his career as a whole - including his WSC feats and 5 unofficial tests v ROW in early 70's
3) partly - however they are walk up starts and pick themselves in the XI

Interested to your issues however minor they are and would be interested in you picking an XI from that and/or even a second XI.
It's all my opinion, and your opinions matter as well.
In saying that, the others that have picked their top 10 or 11 have only had 1 player i didn't pick and that was M.Clarke who I ranked @ 14 and in my 2nd XI. There have been no other challengers for a birth in the XI at this stage. I'd love to see someone nominate another.

 

[cricketnut14]

Gilchrist number one for me.He changed the way the game was played and was the most destructive batsman in the world for years whilst also wicket keeping.
No one else scored that quickly .He often would decide a test result in one session.
He also had very few not outs and often gave his wicket away for the team when we were 8 or 9 down.
People forget Warne was a convicted drug cheat, (diuretics and steroids for his shouder), he was the teflon shane with that one.
He also defrauded his own charity and gave his brother all the charity money and lied about Joe the cameraman and still does.
Gilchrist also 'walked' when not given out, his true batting average was probably 5 runs higher if you take all that into account.

Gilchrist was a champion as you rightly stated.

Would've loved for him to play 4 tests to make 100 tests, 3 more tons to make 20 and a batting average of 50.

He certainly changed the way the game is played and was a match winner in his own right.

 

[DaRick]

Test Top 50

*still playing

50) Andrew Symonds - Not a massive body of work, but his gun fielding and handy part-time bowling are enough to see him squeak into the Top 50 IMO.

49) Ben Hilfenhaus - At his best he could move it away late at 140 km/h, but too often he was monotonous and swung it out of the hand. His action needed to be right for him to be fully effective, which it too often wasn't due to niggling injury. But his record is good enough for him to feature here (helped greatly by a bumper series against India).

48) Michael Kasprowicz - One great year in a stop-start career (hey that rhymed!), played a significant part in two big subcontinent wins. Managed almost 40 Tests.

47) Greg Matthews - Weird cricketer. Was meant to be an off-spinner, but turned out to be a gritty and very effective lower-order batsman. But he ultimately didn't succeed at what he was brought into the side for.

46) Shane Watson - One of the most infuriating Test cricketers ever. Never fulfilled his promise as a batsman, but was a very clever bowler, a good slip fielder, and managed almost 60 Tests.

45) Chris Rogers - Very good opening batsman; in retrospect should have played more Tests. His more nuggety style complemented Warner very well.

44) Usman Khawaja - Never really achieved his potential, but averages over 40 and has played around 45 Tests.

43) Darren Lehmann - Should have played many more Tests. Brilliant player of spin bowling. Average inflated by bashing Bangladesh, though. Useful part-timer.

42) Stuart MacGill - Very unlucky not to have played more, but at the same time benefited from beating up Bangladesh and playing many of his games at the SCG.

41) Tim Paine* - I've ranked him this highly simply because of the circumstances he was thrust into. A crazy Test career; he looked very promising early doors, but he was derailed by injury. All and sundry assumed that he was finished, but he came in, performed well, and wound up being captain at Australia's lowest ebb for many years, when nobody else was available. He's held the job since, and IMO should until he retires given the paucity of other options (Head/Labu aren't ready; Smith IMO shouldn't be captain again). Useful lower-order batsman. He's mostly performed well with the gloves.

40) Geoff Lawson - Played many of his Tests during a difficult era for Australian cricket. Combative personality to go with. Useful lower-order batsman.

39) Peter Siddle - A solid servant during a tumultuous era of Australian cricket. Could hang around with the bat. Played 67 Tests.

38) Brett Lee - Never lived up to his early promise, but his longevity counts for something.

37) Brad Haddin - The Brett Lee of wicketkeepers. Inconsistent and often maligned, but managed to carve out a good Test career. His batting and glovework could be peerless, but too often wasn't. Still, we'll always have the 2013/14 Ashes. Great team player; vital to team cohesion.

36) Kim Hughes - Very difficult to place. Clearly an exceptionally gifted player; capable of crafting some of the best innings ever, but even excluding his last few Tests, his record indicates an unfulfilled talent. Having the captaincy foisted on him didn't help, nor did Chappell/Lillee/Marsh making his life difficult.

35) Paul Reiffel - McGrath-lite. Good against left-handers, but relatively limited body of work. Very useful lower-order batsman.

34) Bruce Reid - Absolutely unplayable on his day, but made of glass. Like a left-armed version of Ryan Harris in that regard. Could get steepling bounce with his frame.

33) Dean Jones - The issue with Dean Jones is that he too often saved his best for dead rubbers. Great fielder and runner between wickets.

32) Simon Katich - Was really impressive in his last couple of years in Test cricket, but before then averaged around 35. Was screwed around by selectors more than once. Was more 'clutch' than Jones; hence I rated him higher.

31) Terry Alderman - Absolutely lethal when the ball moved, but pretty anodyne (albeit economical) when it didn't. Body of work seems him squeak ahead of Reid. Integral to the 1989 Ashes victory.

30) Ryan Harris - One of Australia's most skilled quicks; dangerous in any conditions. Much better batsman than Reid/Alderman, so gets in here. Played a defining role in 2013/14. If only he played more...

29) Michael Slater - Destructive swashbuckling opener. Ranks this high due to longevity, but arguably he did not perform against the best attacks often enough.

28) Merv Hughes - Really a superior version of his fellow Victorian Siddle; he made the most of his talents through sheer courage. Handy lower-order batsman.

27) Josh Hazlewood* - IMO a superior bowler to Starc, but is still McGrath-lite, and is a recognised tailender. Expect him to finish much higher when his career is over.

26) Craig McDermott - A tale of two careers due to playing Test cricket too early. Loved playing at home and against England.

25) Mitchell Starc* - At his best can run through a lineup and is dangerous in all conditions, but has real down periods and up until last season often didn't perform at his best against the Top 2/3 ICC teams. Useful lower-order hitter. Should finish higher when his career is done.

24) Pat Cummins* - Ridiculously capable quick; like Harris dangerous in all conditions. Expect him to skyrocket up the rankings as he develops a larger body of work. Gritty lower-order batsman who tends to contribute when needed.

23) David Warner* - Absolutely unstoppable when he's on a roll, and at home his record is enviable. However, his overseas record is distinctly sub-par and he has a habit of bashing poor attacks in favourable conditions. Hayden-lite. Great fielder.

22) Damien Martyn - Lovely to watch; played some wonderful knocks in tough conditions. More of a 'clutch' player than Warner IMO. Very good fielder.

21) Nathan Lyon* - 96 Tests and almost 400 wickets says it all really. Australia is usually a graveyard for off-spinners, so the fact that he still manages to look dangerous in Australian conditions is commendable.

20) Mitchell Johnson - I feel like a man of his talent should have averaged below 25, but he had a good career, took over 300 wickets, and was absolutely ferocious when on song. Outstanding fielder and useful lower-order hitter whose batting again promised more than it delivered.

19) Jason Gillespie - An ignominious end to a wonderful career, but maybe doesn't quite have the record to place him well ahead of Johnson, or ahead of any of the 100 Test club. Very good defensive technique for a lower-order batsman and if his 200* was made today, it would inspire a multitude of memes. Bowling in India helped set up a historic series win.

18) Mark Waugh - The worst of the 100 Test club IMO. Luckily for him that's an overly narrow criticism. Played some iconic innings, was a legendary fielder and a useful part-timer. Maybe lacked the killer instinct to rank more highly.

17) David Boon - Gritty opener/#3. Acrofatic to boot.

16) Justin Langer - Underrated by many. Averaged 52 as an opener and personified mental toughness, but took years to establish himself. Could flay the wide stuff all day long.

15) Mark Taylor - Although he averaged 40 for much of his career, I've ranked him just ahead of Langer because he was an excellent, if at times complacent, captain. Great slip fielder.

14) Michael Hussey - Had a terrific career, despite the prolonged form slumps. I disagree with the notion that he made 'easy runs' but I do agree that he tended to like batting in partnerships and rarely performed when the rest of the batsmen failed. Great fielder.

13) Matthew Hayden - Champion batsman - took Slater's ability to maul poor bowling up to eleven, but perhaps struggled against seam and swing too much to rank more highly. Helped to make Australia a dominant force but only really carried the batting lineup in 2007/08. Average inflated by mauling a county-standard Zimbabwe.

12) Rod Marsh - Legendary wicketkeeper-batsman; was an influence on countless wicketkeepers. Very difficult to distinguish from Ian Healy in most respects...

11) Ian Healy - ...but Healy played more Tests so he just wins out.

10) Michael Clarke - Has many detractors, but was an excellent tactician and as a batsman was often forced to carry his side on his back. Could struggle against shorter stuff later on and against the new ball, but didn't benefit from playing against a county-standard Bangladesh/Zimbabwe. His best knocks will live long in the memory, as will his 3/5 to win a Test.

9) Steve Smith* - If I was ranking him solely on batting ability, he'd of course be higher. As it is, he has the distinction of being the only batsman to get into the Top 10 without playing 100 combined Test/WSC matches. His record is phenomenal and he doesn't have many weaknesses - earlier in his career he struggled against swing and the shorter ball slows him down - but it doesn't seem to get him out cheaply. So adaptable that it's ridiculous. Tarnished somewhat by his captaincy.

8) Steve Waugh - Mental toughness and longevity personified. Saved much of his best for when Australia needed it the most. Not a terrific tactician and didn't have the most classical technique ever, but commanded respect from his charges and helped create an incredibly ruthless side. Was a good fielder and a useful quick when he was younger.

7) Ricky Ponting - Hard to split with Steve Waugh. The latter could bowl, but Ponting IMO was a more gifted batsman. Played past his prime, but was a colossus to rival Steve Smith in his pomp. Peerless off the back foot, and with the possible exception of off-spin was not unduly troubled by spin bowling. A marginally inferior captain to Waugh, but a superior fielder. Both played 168 Tests. Final average doesn't really do him justice.

6) Allan Border - Like Steve Waugh, if he was thrown into a position of having to captain a failing side while being the best batsman in his side by a long way for much of his career. Helped set up Australia's future success.

5) Greg Chappell - Absurdly gifted batsman/fielder (his average actually improves if you add WSC), but his time as captain was controversial. Plus he was accused of picking and choosing the Tests he would play, particularly later on in his career. Richie Benaud likes him though, so he can be in the Top 5.

4) Dennis Lillee - Obviously a legend. If this was a collective charisma/flair/impact/influence list, he'd be in the Top 2. As it is, he falls slightly short because even when you consider WSC/ROW, he doesn't quite have the body of work to justify a higher position, nor was he revolutionary in the sense that Adam Gilchrist is. Plus while he could easily have adapted, he never had the opportunity to learn to bowl in the subcontinent. Plus, unlike McGrath, he did fade somewhat over his last two seasons. He is in Richie Benaud's Greatest XI and as such deserves his position on this list, but that list was compiled before Glenn McGrath had the chance to finish his career. Speaking of which...

3) Glenn McGrath - I've always thought that if there was a more effective quick than Glenn McGrath, he must have been a joy to watch. Not only did he rarely get injured, but people seem to forget that he could do anything when he wanted to. Seam, outswing, inswing, yorkers, cutters, bouncers, reverse swing, slower balls. It's not surprising that he was dangerous everywhere, nor is it surprising that he averaged under 22 over a career spanning 125 Tests. In his prime though, he normally bowled back-of-a-length and seamed it away, while from 2004 or so he would bowl it a bit fuller and use outswing more, with a touch more variety. Given an honourable mention by Richie Benaud.

2) Adam Gilchrist - It's hard to overstate Adam Gilchrist's impact and influence. Prior to his emergence, there was no known keeper who was talented enough to both bat in the Top 6 of just about any lineup imaginable while being a genuinely talented gloveman (i.e - not Andy Flower). Not only that, he changed the way that wicketkeepers batted for a very long time. Before his debut, wicketkeepers were only expected to carve out some runs while batting with the tail, like Ian Healy used to. They certainly weren't expected to blast attacks out of existence within half an hour. Gilchrist changed that, and spawned an army of imitators - but none could emulate the real thing. There have been more gifted batsmen, and more gifted glovemen, but IMO not more gifted wicket-keeper batsmen. He deserves his place here, and Richie Benaud seems to agree.

1) Shane Warne - He is in Wisden Cricketers of the Century. What more can be said?

1st XI
- ML Hayden
- JL Langer
- RT Ponting
- GS Chappell
- SPD Smith
- SR Waugh*
- AC Gilchrist+
- SK Warne
- PJ Cummins
- DK Lillee
- GD McGrath

I selected Langer ahead of Taylor because of team dynamics (Hayden got along with Langer much better than with Taylor), plus Langer was definitely more effective as an opener. Steve Waugh is captain because his strength was turning a talented side into an incredibly ruthless outfit. In such a talented side, Taylor's tactical nous and Border's grit probably aren't so important, especially since Steve Waugh has the same sort of mentality.

2nd XI
- DA Warner
- MA Taylor*
- DC Boon
- AR Border
- MJ Clarke
- MEK Hussey
- IA Healy+
- MG Johnson
- JN Gillespie
- CJ McDermott
- NM Lyon

The 2nd XI is weaker and so would need Taylor's nous more in order to be competitive. I considered selecting Slater instead of Warner because of his success with Taylor, but IMO Warner is the better of the two and can still complement Taylor's more nuggety style through his more attacking methods. Boon and Border would make for a very gritty #3 and #4 should the openers fail, plus Clarke and Hussey are a formidable #5/#6. The tailend batting is marginally stronger thanks to Johnson. Johnson and Starc are too similar so I didn't select Starc.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Watson below Usman?

Very underappreciated cricketer, Watson. Not many guys make the contributions he did while being thrown around the order so much.

Very very crafty bowler too, shame his body didn't allow him to show it more often.

 

[DaRick]

Watson below Usman?

Very underappreciated cricketer, Watson. Not many guys make the contributions he did while being thrown around the order so much.

Very very crafty bowler too, shame his body didn't allow him to show it more often.

The difficulty with Watson is that he was a much smarter bowler than batsman - but he was usually expected to be a batsman first and foremost, and he probably didn't bowl enough due to injury. Like a batsman's version of Greg Matthews in a way.

Part of the reason why he was shunted around was because he struggled at #6 to begin with, given that he liked bat on ball and didn't start very well versus spin.

Khawaja on the other hand was selected as a batsman.

 

[cricketnut14]

Watson below Usman?

Very underappreciated cricketer, Watson. Not many guys make the contributions he did while being thrown around the order so much.

Very very crafty bowler too, shame his body didn't allow him to show it more often.

yeah i didn't mind watto.

he got shafted about in the test arena.

played purely as a batsman on a few occasions but in reality was probably a test #6 when fully fit and firing.

sure watson would have been higher if i took into consideration his white ball efforts.

i think i said above watto, m.waugh, starc and symonds would've all ranked higher if i placed a greater emphasis on the shorter formats.

 

[cricketnut14]

1st XI
- ML Hayden (13)
- JL Langer (16)
- RT Ponting (7)
- GS Chappell (5)
- SPD Smith (9)
- SR Waugh* (8)
- AC Gilchrist+ (2)
- SK Warne (1)
- PJ Cummins (24)
- DK Lillee (4)
- GD McGrath (3)

I selected Langer ahead of Taylor because of team dynamics (Hayden got along with Langer much better than with Taylor), plus Langer was definitely more effective as an opener. Steve Waugh is captain because his strength was turning a talented side into an incredibly ruthless outfit. In such a talented side, Taylor's tactical nous and Border's grit probably aren't so important, especially since Steve Waugh has the same sort of mentality.

2nd XI
- DA Warner (23)
- MA Taylor* (15)
- DC Boon (17)
- AR Border (6)
- MJ Clarke (10)
- MEK Hussey (14)
- IA Healy+ (11)
- MG Johnson (20)
- JN Gillespie (19)
- CJ McDermott (26)
- NM Lyon (21)

The 2nd XI is weaker and so would need Taylor's nous more in order to be competitive. I considered selecting Slater instead of Warner because of his success with Taylor, but IMO Warner is the better of the two and can still complement Taylor's more nuggety style through his more attacking methods. Boon and Border would make for a very gritty #3 and #4 should the openers fail, plus Clarke and Hussey are a formidable #5/#6. The tailend batting is marginally stronger thanks to Johnson. Johnson and Starc are too similar so I didn't select Starc.

Love the effort you went too and I agree with your descriptions basically of all the players you rated.

I put your rankings of the players you selected of the 22 players. Interestingly enough 4 players with higher rankings didn't make your cut, but I understand for team balance. R.Marsh (12) , M.Waugh (18), D.Martyn (22), M.Starc (25).

We had similar rankings and I'll post them shortly, this was evident as your 2 sides contained 21 of my 22 top ranked players.
Having 3 wicketkeepers in our best 22 was always going to see 1 of them miss out on a spot in the 2nd XI.

I must admit though I've always struggled to seperate:
-Healy/Marsh
-Border/S.Waugh
-Lillee/McGrath (Cummins may also be in this discussion when he finishes)
-Ponting/G.Chappell & now Smith