Preview NAB AFL Draft

[Kong]

Re: National Draft / Rookie Draft Strategy (No Trade Talk)

#40. Our first selection in the '99 draft.

 

[eth-dog]

Re: National Draft / Rookie Draft Strategy (No Trade Talk)

Then why isn't he on the list as well

 

[Kong]

Re: National Draft / Rookie Draft Strategy (No Trade Talk)

Yacco - for whatever reason - did a list of 6-30. Very selective, but his own choice.

By the way, when I said "Lazy", I wasn't calling him lazy, but rather saying he forgot to include Laycock.

 

[Burzum]

Re: National Draft / Rookie Draft Strategy (No Trade Talk)

This is stupid. You can't just make claims that ALL of the gun ruckman go in the top 5, therefore one that doesn't means he won't be very good. History means jack shit when it comes to drafting in the AFL. Such as those fools saying pick 6 is cursed.

 

[The Fact]

Re: National Draft / Rookie Draft Strategy (No Trade Talk)

This is stupid. You can't just make claims that ALL of the gun ruckman go in the top 5, therefore one that doesn't means he won't be very good. History means jack shit when it comes to drafting in the AFL. Such as those fools saying pick 6 is cursed.

Agreed although pick 6 really is cursed. But I'm still warming to darling with two talls delisted this year 3 if u include laycock and who knows if hird will keep neagle next year.

I reckon it may well be worth going darling he maybe a little short for a pure kkp but IMO what we really need is a pure power utility who can play on the hhf and go into the middle as a burst player.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Re: National Draft / Rookie Draft Strategy (No Trade Talk)

We do have Joe Daniher coming though. Although Darling is a fine prospect, that said taking him at 8 with his off field issues could be a problem. Do we need another Lovett? As good as he was on the field, he was a menace off the field.

 

[yodellinhank]

Re: National Draft / Rookie Draft Strategy (No Trade Talk)

Also people bringing up the C'wood trade, you have to also appreciate the gamble they have taken....

2007 trade first pick for Wood, draft John McCarthy 2nd round
2008 Sidebottom/Beams
2009 trade 1st and 3rd rounder for Jolly, draft 25yo Ball with 2nd rounder
2010 trade 1st rounder for 27yo Krackouer and Ceglar

Out of 1st and 2nd round picks in 5 years time we should have a developed Myers, Pears, Hurley, Zaharakis, Melksham, Carlisle, Colyer, Long as well as picks 8 and 30 this year.

Collingwood will have Sidebottom, Beams, Ceglar?, McCarthy? and maybe Ball... Yes they are in a premiership window now, so by all means go for it. But they might need to continue having great success with rookies etc not to suffer the way we suffered from 1999-02 drafting and penalties...

Hopefully our path provides a more sustainable model.

 

[yaco55]

Re: National Draft / Rookie Draft Strategy (No Trade Talk)

Can't believe you forgot the pick of the lot, yacco.

Lazy!

Sorry

What an ommission.

Does show that to get a very good AFL ruckman - It is either Top 5, after 30 in the ND or the rookie draft.

 

[yaco55]

Re: National Draft / Rookie Draft Strategy (No Trade Talk)

This is stupid. You can't just make claims that ALL of the gun ruckman go in the top 5, therefore one that doesn't means he won't be very good. History means jack shit when it comes to drafting in the AFL. Such as those fools saying pick 6 is cursed.

Provide more evidence that disputed my argument.

I have provided stats from all drafts from 1989 to 2006.

Dont have stats for 1987 /88 - Didn't include 2007-2009 as it is too early to make an assessment.

Chose pick 6 to 30 - because our first two picks are 8 and 30.

What the stats show is that GUN ruckman are drafted in the Top 5 - or from round 3 in the ND or in the Rookie Draft.

Twenty years of stats provide a fair range of facts to make an informed assessment.

Of course it is easy to throw in a glib one liner without any substantiation.

 

[yaco55]

Re: National Draft / Rookie Draft Strategy (No Trade Talk)

Also people bringing up the C'wood trade, you have to also appreciate the gamble they have taken....

2007 trade first pick for Wood, draft John McCarthy 2nd round
2008 Sidebottom/Beams
2009 trade 1st and 3rd rounder for Jolly, draft 25yo Ball with 2nd rounder
2010 trade 1st rounder for 27yo Krackouer and Ceglar

Out of 1st and 2nd round picks in 5 years time we should have a developed Myers, Pears, Hurley, Zaharakis, Melksham, Carlisle, Colyer, Long as well as picks 8 and 30 this year.

Collingwood will have Sidebottom, Beams, Ceglar?, McCarthy? and maybe Ball... Yes they are in a premiership window now, so by all means go for it. But they might need to continue having great success with rookies etc not to suffer the way we suffered from 1999-02 drafting and penalties...

Hopefully our path provides a more sustainable model.

Agree

Collingwood has taken a big risk in trading out first rounders in two consecutive drafts.

2009 was a no brainer but unsure about 2010.

Time will tell.

 

[Burzum]

Re: National Draft / Rookie Draft Strategy (No Trade Talk)

Provide more evidence that disputed my argument.

I have provided stats from all drafts from 1989 to 2006.

Dont have stats for 1987 /88 - Didn't include 2007-2009 as it is too early to make an assessment.

Chose pick 6 to 30 - because our first two picks are 8 and 30.

What the stats show is that GUN ruckman are drafted in the Top 5 - or from round 3 in the ND or in the Rookie Draft.

Twenty years of stats provide a fair range of facts to make an informed assessment.

Of course it is easy to throw in a glib one liner without any substantiation.

How can you make an assessment on a player based on the history of something that has nothing to do with said player?

 

[yaco55]

Re: National Draft / Rookie Draft Strategy (No Trade Talk)

How can you make an assessment on a player based on the history of something that has nothing to do with said player?

We are not making an assessment per se - We are looking at where the GUN ruckman have been drafted since 1987 - And it shows they are in the Top5 or from the third round of the ND and the Rookie Draft.

It is a matter of deciding whether you want to pick a ruckman from Pick 6 to 30 - The stats aren't in your favour.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Re: National Draft / Rookie Draft Strategy (No Trade Talk)

Yaco is spot on. No need to get ruckmen at 8, sure if we had a top 5 pick and there was some ruckman worth over-paying for, but we don't. We have a mid first round pick and I have severe doubts on a tall making it at 8. Midfielders at 8, at worst will be pretty good.

 

[Burzum]

Re: National Draft / Rookie Draft Strategy (No Trade Talk)

We are not making an assessment per se - We are looking at where the GUN ruckman have been drafted since 1987 - And it shows they are in the Top5 or from the third round of the ND and the Rookie Draft.

It is a matter of deciding whether you want to pick a ruckman from Pick 6 to 30 - The stats aren't in your favour.

Stats also say that around 50% of the number 1 draft picks won't be that good, so you would trade away that pick then of course?

 

[The Fact]

Re: National Draft / Rookie Draft Strategy (No Trade Talk)

We do have Joe Daniher coming though. Although Darling is a fine prospect, that said taking him at 8 with his off field issues could be a problem. Do we need another Lovett? As good as he was on the field, he was a menace off the field.

Although we do have Joe d coming I see darling as more as a utility because really looking over our list who is are playing who can play where ever needed? Nlm we don't really want to be counting on him forever.

And with the off field stuff I'm not to sure about all of that but didn't he just get bottled outside of a nightclub and with the school thing who doesn't want to have a bit of fun with the ladies!!!

But back on topic IMO are mids aren't great but we are waiting for some players to develop but we have no up and coming utilities. Another factor is mids seem to run pretty deep into this draft and darling will kind of be a part time mid anyway.

Anyway I doubt we will take him just throwing a different view out there

 

[Towno78]

Re: National Draft / Rookie Draft Strategy (No Trade Talk)

Provide more evidence that disputed my argument.

I have provided stats from all drafts from 1989 to 2006.

Dont have stats for 1987 /88 - Didn't include 2007-2009 as it is too early to make an assessment.

Chose pick 6 to 30 - because our first two picks are 8 and 30.

What the stats show is that GUN ruckman are drafted in the Top 5 - or from round 3 in the ND or in the Rookie Draft.

Twenty years of stats provide a fair range of facts to make an informed assessment.

Of course it is easy to throw in a glib one liner without any substantiation.

- Shithouse meaningless list. At least if you are going to do a list, make it accurate: Laycock, McIntosh, Renouf, Pattison all missing and picked in your 5-30 range.
- Frankly any draft talk that pre-dates this century is useless IMO. Recruiting simply wasn't professional back then which is demonstrated by how many no.1 flops there were.
- So, looking at the past 10 years of your meaningless list, you have 3 premiership ruckmen: Renouf, Charman & Seaby. Plus Ryder, Clark & McIntosh who would all comfortably sit in the current top 10 in the league.

Apart from the fact I think your list is meaningless, and that even if it were meaningful it provides "evidence" completely contrary to what you believe it does... I would like us to pick up a mid at 8.

 

[Tazwegian]

Re: National Draft / Rookie Draft Strategy (No Trade Talk)

You guys need midfielders. Pick the best available outside mid at 8 and I would go Josh Green (I know I am a biased Tassie) if he is still available with your next pick (25?). Need another in and under player who can support Jobe.

 

[DVD Player]

Re: National Draft / Rookie Draft Strategy (No Trade Talk)

I bet we will select Caddy and everyone will be pleased.

 

[yodellinhank]

Re: National Draft / Rookie Draft Strategy (No Trade Talk)

Yaco is spot on. No need to get ruckmen at 8, sure if we had a top 5 pick and there was some ruckman worth over-paying for, but we don't. We have a mid first round pick and I have severe doubts on a tall making it at 8. Midfielders at 8, at worst will be pretty good.

You'd think so. Though having a look at recent drafting history the best midfielder between 8-30

2002: Jason Winderlich (11)
2003: Stanton (13) / Mundy (19)
2004: Geez, somebody help me out... Rosa? Bate? Polo?
2005: Shaun Higgins (11)
2006: David Armitage (9)
2007: Dangerfield (10)

2 of that lot are already in our midfield which you all think is rubbish?

The kids from the last 2 drafts could be anything, probably Sidebottom, Bastinac; but you have to go back to Bartel in 2001 before you find anyone resembling the silver bullet you guys are after. Guess thats why it was called a superdraft.

 

[Towno78]

Re: National Draft / Rookie Draft Strategy (No Trade Talk)

You'd think so. Though having a look at recent drafting history the best midfielder between 8-30

2002: Jason Winderlich (11)
2003: Stanton (13) / Mundy (19)
2004: Geez, somebody help me out... Rosa? Bate? Polo?
2005: Shaun Higgins (11)
2006: David Armitage (9)
2007: Dangerfield (10)

2 of that lot are already in our midfield which you all think is rubbish?

The kids from the last 2 drafts could be anything, probably Sidebottom, Bastinac; but you have to go back to Bartel in 2001 before you find anyone resembling the silver bullet you guys are after. Guess thats why it was called a superdraft.

Hardly need to go back to 2001. Don't think anyone is expecting an out and out jet at 8 (hoping maybe), but players of the calibre of any of the following (picked 8-30) would make most very happy:
2008: 9-Ziebell, 11-Sidebottom, 18-Shuey, 23-Zaka, 29-Beams, 30-Hannebery
2007: 10-Dangerfield, 12-Rioli, 14-Grimes

 

[yaco55]

Re: National Draft / Rookie Draft Strategy (No Trade Talk)

Stats also say that around 50% of the number 1 draft picks won't be that good, so you would trade away that pick then of course?

You are arguing for the sake or arguing !

And with the wrong person - I am someone who would like to have 6 or 7 picks in the ND - I value draft picks - whether they are 1 or 80.

I merely posted information about rucks that have been drafted between pick 6 and 30 - Our first two draft picks.

You are the only one that is disputing the information.

 

[yaco55]

Re: National Draft / Rookie Draft Strategy (No Trade Talk)

- Shithouse meaningless list. At least if you are going to do a list, make it accurate: Laycock, McIntosh, Renouf, Pattison all missing and picked in your 5-30 range.
- Frankly any draft talk that pre-dates this century is useless IMO. Recruiting simply wasn't professional back then which is demonstrated by how many no.1 flops there were.
- So, looking at the past 10 years of your meaningless list, you have 3 premiership ruckmen: Renouf, Charman & Seaby. Plus Ryder, Clark & McIntosh who would all comfortably sit in the current top 10 in the league.

Apart from the fact I think your list is meaningless, and that even if it were meaningful it provides "evidence" completely contrary to what you believe it does... I would like us to pick up a mid at 8.

Why is draft history pre 2000 useless ?

So what that I missed out on a a couple of names when trawling through lists - Although missing Laycock was unforgiveable

Get the list into context when discussing Essendons drafting needs - That our need is midfielders.

The list is merely showing that if you want to grab a very good/elite player with pick 8 - It is unlikely to be a ruckman.

You mention premiership ruckman - All premiership teams are made up of average players who play a role.

And I was generous claiming Clark as a ruck man - he was drafted as a key forward.

 

[yaco55]

Re: National Draft / Rookie Draft Strategy (No Trade Talk)

Hardly need to go back to 2001. Don't think anyone is expecting an out and out jet at 8 (hoping maybe), but players of the calibre of any of the following (picked 8-30) would make most very happy:
2008: 9-Ziebell, 11-Sidebottom, 18-Shuey, 23-Zaka, 29-Beams, 30-Hannebery
2007: 10-Dangerfield, 12-Rioli, 14-Grimes

And this was the point of my post about Ruckmen picked between 6 and 30.

Compare that to the midfielders in the list.

You are arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

[Yoda_]

Re: National Draft / Rookie Draft Strategy (No Trade Talk)

Guys, don't really want to trawl through the thread and delete a whole buinch of crap, please get discussion back on topic!

Just going 'round and 'round bantering about meaningless rubbish..


I am not sure why everyone in the phantom drafting has us taking O'Shea at 47, "tall running defender with precise skills by hand and a strong work ethic" AFL draft machine.

Looking over all the better phantom drafts, there is always a better midfielder that seems to slip to pick 30.

Love the look of Perth midfielder Reece Conca,

"Impressively skilled player from WA, with a strong body and a great ability to win the contested ball. His ability to run and carry and his football smarts were prominent in representing WA at the Under-18 Championships this year. Averaged 18 disposals at 79 per cent efficiency. Showed amazing skills at Combine, proving himself a player to watch for." AFL Draft machine.

Recorded a kicking result of 5/5 at the AFL Draft Combine, think he could be our man at pick 30.

 

[Dunn - Well Done]

Re: National Draft / Rookie Draft Strategy (No Trade Talk)

Yeah i think your right HBF theres going to be a good midfielder type available at pick 30. There are probably 35 good players id be very happy to have at the club from this draft.

So by taking a FF/Ruck with pick 8 i dont think is a bad idea. I still prefer a midfielder and even hope for Lycett at 30 and if hes gone get another mid. A few mock drafts have us with Parker, which i dont think will happen. He should be well gone by how good a player he is. Parker>Prestia>Conca>Green one of these good players should be available at pick 30.