Recommitted Nat Fyfe [re-signed]

[doona]

Very risky game to play with any list that has not yet tasted success.

Not all lists are lucky enough to taste success, no matter how promising they look. So if a list hasn't tasted success, chances are they would have a better opportunity with a fit Fyfe.

 

[saintsrfreak]

Not really.

You don't have to look far back for an example either lol

 

[The_Steadier]

FMD, can you quit trying to make this about Hawthorn. It's not comparative at all.

Fyfe would be earning more that $400k more than any other existing player on the list.

It's incredibly comparative.

You're the one who brought up the whole "1.2mil for fyfe is bad because clarko sez team before individual" argument.

Sorry champ, you've literally just signed the biggest mercenary the game has seen since tom scully.
If that rank hypocrisy isn't relevant in shooting down your paper thin argument, nothing is.

 

[schmuttt]

Big clubs have lean periods too, all being even they're a top 3 Melbourne club, arguably top 2.

On success or standing? Richmond, Collingwood, Essendon, Hawthorn all bigger.

 

[quotemokc]

Financially I think it's doable for some clubs however the tough part would be making sure the playing group is okay with it, it's a big chunk of money for one player to be getting, you'd want to make sure the culture of the club is bulletproof and everyone is in it for success not money.

Its generally an unspoken rule in pro sports that players don't discuss their contracts with one another.

They understand that football is a job and you get the most money you can in your time limited career.

 

[schmuttt]

1.2m a year would definitely be doable for the Saints. Who there is on a monster deal? They could easily front load a 4 year deal paying 105% of the cap and still keep all their young talent barring another club coming in with an obscene offer.

 

[Steven Tyler]

It's incredibly comparative.

You're the one who brought up the whole "1.2mil for fyfe is bad because clarko sez team before individual" argument.

Sorry champ, you've literally just signed the biggest mercenary the game has seen since tom scully.
If that rank hypocrisy isn't relevant in shooting down your paper thin argument, nothing is.

Who's the biggest mercenary since Scully?

 

[triple treat]

Value is relative.



You blokes would have far more chance of mutiny on your hands coughing up 500k a year for a certified potato like vickery, than bringing in a brownlow medalist on 1.2mil.

500k for vickery... now THAT'S a shitload of money.

A lot of people would of said the same thing when we got hale over from the roos, he wasn't exactly setting the world on fire there!
Its all about structure and he'll bring that structure back to our forward line that we haven't had since hale left.. So I 'll bet the players are more than happy for the club to pay Vickery $500k compared to Fyfe for $1.2 mil
But hey were in the business of winning flags not selling merchandise with the number 7 on it

 

[The_Steadier]

A lot of people would of said the same thing when we got hale over from the roos, he wasn't exactly setting the world on fire there!
Its all about structure and he'll bring that structure back to our forward line that we haven't had since hale left.. So I 'll bet the players are more than happy for the club to pay Vickery $500k compared to Fyfe for $1.2 mil
But hey were in the business of winning flags not selling merchandise with the number 7 on it

I agree it's about structure.
What about the structure of a team like carlton or the saints who have zero genuine current A+ grade midfielders?

It isn't worth paying slightly over market rates to fix that structure?
Yet it somehow IS ok to pay over market for hale and vickery?

Given they are so adept at it- hawks know all too well that all clubs almost always need to pay overs to get a player to move.
So whatever the offer is from a club that isn't freo, it will need to be a decent bump above that freos offer is.

I'm intrigued to here what you think freo will/should offer fyfe?
7 figures?

 

[The_Steadier]

Who's the biggest mercenary since Scully?

The bloke who walked out on the club who kept his football career alive.

Just so we're clear though, I've got no issue with hawthorn getting jaeger- that's business.

But what i do have a problem with is any hawks supporter attempting a hollier than thou rhetoric about how they're 'above all that buying players who want big bucks stuff, coz clarko sez team first).
Teams are made of individuals.
Individuals like money.

Nothing wrong with that, just don't try and deny that all 800 AFL players are in the same boat- there's nothing specially holy or selfless or more 'teamy' about the ones in brown and yellow.

 

[Bokonon_]

It's incredibly comparative.

You're the one who brought up the whole "1.2mil for fyfe is bad because clarko sez team before individual" argument.

Sorry champ, you've literally just signed the biggest mercenary the game has seen since tom scully.
If that rank hypocrisy isn't relevant in shooting down your paper thin argument, nothing is.

Got to pull you up on Scully. He resigned long term on less money, that's not the act of a mercenary. He would have shopped himself around and gone to the nest offer if he was. As an outside mid with great defense and attacking capacity, plus the endurance to run out a whole game on the field there would have been a lot of interest.

 

[Steven Tyler]

The bloke who walked out on the club who kept his football career alive.

Just so we're clear though, I've got no issue with hawthorn getting jaeger- that's business.

But what i do have a problem with is any hawks supporter attempting a hollier than thou rhetoric about how they're 'above all that buying players who want big bucks stuff, coz clarko sez team first).
Teams are made of individuals.
Individuals like money.

Nothing wrong with that, just don't try and deny that all 800 AFL players are in the same boat- there's nothing specially holy or selfless or more 'teamy' about the ones in brown and yellow.

Would've thought Bud was more of a mercenary than a guy who for 2 years couldn't get on the park
It's no coincidence that JOM chose Hawthorn because of our fitness and medical team, after all, he was offered more money to stay at Gold Coast than he's getting at Hawthorn
That's not a mercenary in my book!

Oh, and it's brown and gold!

 

[The_Steadier]

Got to pull you up on Scully. He resigned long term on less money, that's not the act of a mercenary. He would have shopped himself around and gone to the nest offer if he was. As an outside mid with great defense and attacking capacity, plus the endurance to run out a whole game on the field there would have been a lot of interest.

I'm talking about 2011 scully, not 2017 scully.

No question he has changed in that time- that doesn't rewrite history though.

And make no mistake, i don't blame the kid at all leaving melbourne- he, like all players are entitled to chase as many dollars as someone wants to pay for their services.

We just don't need to pretend it's something that it isn't though.

 

[Suma Magic]

$1.2m is a lot.

But when you think about it, it's the same as Vickery + O'Meara. It doesn't seem that much when put in that context.

 

[The_Steadier]

Would've thought Bud was more of a mercenary than a guy who for 2 years couldn't get on the park
It's no coincidence that JOM chose Hawthorn because of our fitness and medical team, after all, he was offered more money to stay at Gold Coast than he's getting at Hawthorn
That's not a mercenary in my book!

Oh, and it's brown and gold!

Buddy gave the hawks plenty before he left.
Like gaz leaving geelong, it would be easier for those guys to sleep- knowing the club they are leaving has gotten plenty from them.
Jaeger repaid the gold coast with nada.

It's quite subjective, so i won't argue whether buddy or jaeger are the 'bigger' mercenary.
Point is, they are one.

Which as I've said is fine by me, that's the business- just call a spade a spade is all.

And celebrate champs like pavlich and co who resist big money temptations that guys like jaeger and buddy and scully couldn't say no to.

 

[Bokonon_]

I'm talking about 2011 scully, not 2017 scully.

No question he has changed in that time- that doesn't rewrite history though.

And make no mistake, i don't blame the kid at all leaving melbourne- he, like all players are entitled to chase as many dollars as someone wants to pay for their services.

We just don't need to pretend it's something that it isn't though.

Fair enough
As long as you understand not everyome needs to agree with you.

 

[The_Steadier]

As long as you understand not everyome needs to agree with you.

I disagree

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It's incredibly comparative.

You're the one who brought up the whole "1.2mil for fyfe is bad because clarko sez team before individual" argument.

Sorry champ, you've literally just signed the biggest mercenary the game has seen since tom scully.
If that rank hypocrisy isn't relevant in shooting down your paper thin argument, nothing is.

What a load.

$1.2 would have Fyfe earning $500k more than the "the biggest mercenary the game has seen" and other champions who have played off in 3 premierships.

Clarkson and Wright have a clear model that doesn't allow for that sort of spend on an individual, hence why Franklin left without even an inkling of matching the offer.

 

[Steven Tyler]

Buddy gave the hawks plenty before he left.
Like gaz leaving geelong, it would be easier for those guys to sleep- knowing the club they are leaving has gotten plenty from them.
Jaeger repaid the gold coast with nada.

It's quite subjective, so i won't argue whether buddy or jaeger are the 'bigger' mercenary.
Point is, they are one.

Which as I've said is fine by me, that's the business- just call a spade a spade is all.

And celebrate champs like pavlich and co who resist big money temptations that guys like jaeger and buddy and scully couldn't say no to.

You're using the word 'mercenary' in the wrong context

 

[The_Steadier]

What a load.

$1.2 would have Fyfe earning $500k more than the "the biggest mercenary the game has seen" and other champions who have played off in 3 premierships.

Clarkson and Wright have a clear model that doesn't allow for that sort of spend on an individual, hence why Franklin left without even an inkling of matching the offer.

Haha, the fact that hawthorn had no inkling of matching buddys offer was because it was a million dollars a year for 9 years for a 27 year old!!

It had nothing to do with some sort of imaginary mystical figure that they refuse to pay a player on moral grounds.

9 years, a million a year, 27 years old.

Yeah, sure- the million a year was the bit hawthorn didn't like.... the 9 years and 27 years old bit had nothing to do with it.

You still haven't answered my question from earlier- what IS this magical dollar value that clarko has ordained as being the difference between virtious and mercenary?

Clearly it's somewhere between 750k and 1.2mil (because jaeger is virtious but fyfe a mercenary).
It's slightly apples and oranges between the two though.
So you will of course need to correct slightly for the fact that 750k is for a jaeger who hasn't played in 2 years....
and the 1.2mil would be for a brownlow medalist who at the end of this year has presumably reaffirmed himself as one of the top few players in the game.

So what IS clarkos magic number?

Also still fascinated to hear what you think freo will/should offer fyfe.

 

[kirbatron]

The bloke who walked out on the club who kept his football career alive.

He didn't leave for more money, he left because he believed our medical staff were the right fit to get him back on track & save his career. Change of environment etc no different to numerous other players who leave each year.

He is paid well because he is an elite young player.

I'll tell you know, you wouldn't have labelled him a 'mercenary' had he joined the saints.

 

[The_Steadier]

He didn't leave for more money, he left because he believed our medical staff were the right fit to get him back on track & save his career. Change of environment etc no different to numerous other players who leave each year.

He is paid well because he is an elite young player.

I'll tell you know, you wouldn't have labelled him a 'mercenary' had he joined the saints.

You're right that mercenary isn't quite the right label for jaeger.
He's certainly not like say mitch clark for instance who wanted out of brisbane because he was 'homesick'.
Turned out he was 'moneysick' because he ended up a long long way from home at melbourne on huge coin.

So yes mercenary isn't a great fit as a label.

However jaeger came up originally to demonstrate that the players in brown and yellow are no different in their virtue (or lack thereof) regarding team loyalty to any other players in the league.

So proclaiming fyfe on 1.2mil shows he is somehow less of a team loyal guy than say jaeger... that's total baloney.
If a guy like jaeger gets through the door- a guy like fyfe on 1.2mil is equally eligible to enter.

TL;DR: 'Non team loyal guy' is much harder to say than 'mercenary'

 

[kirbatron]

You're right that mercenary isn't quite the right label for jaeger.
He's certainly not like say mitch clark for instance who wanted out of brisbane because he was 'homesick'.
Turned out he was 'moneysick' because he ended up a long long way from home at melbourne on huge coin.

So yes mercenary isn't a great fit as a label.

However jaeger came up originally to demonstrate that the players in brown and yellow are no different in their virtue (or lack thereof) regarding team loyalty to any other players in the league.

So proclaiming fyfe on 1.2mil shows he is somehow less of a team loyal guy than say jaeger... that's total baloney.
If a guy like jaeger gets through the door- a guy like fyfe on 1.2mil is equally eligible to enter.

TL;DR: 'Non team loyal guy' is much harder to say than 'mercenary'

I'm in the middle you & abasi on this one. I think Fyfe is somewhere in between.

As a rule we don't over pay as we are lucky to have other selling points (as other clubs do as well) - Hawthorn is on record to say we will never offer another Buddy like deal (for him to stay) proportionate to what it was worth back then going forward.

 

[Periphery]

$1.2m/pa for Fyfe is not overpaying imo.

 

[The_Steadier]

$1.2m/pa for Fyfe is not overpaying imo.

It's a downright bargain if it's as an RFA, costing zero picks and when the 10%+ cap increase comes in.