In 2011 you made a grand final and were just absolutely horrific when it matted against Geelong. Would hardly believe that a host of clubs had dissected, maybe Hawthorn and Geelong obviously, but the Hawks were on the way to huge success.
It's a bit ridiculous to act like Mick's gameplan was pretty much the only reason they were successful. That ignores the fact that they had three jets in the middle in Thomas, Swan and Pendlebury along with a developing Beams and Sidebottom who has only gotten better as a player since 2011. Cloke was a gun up forward, and down back they had talent plus experience, something they're completely devoid of now. They certainly weren't the 2010 Saints or 2013 Dockers who had some genuinely ordinary talent in their sides. Clearly Mick had found something in the group and used it to his advantage. Buckley hasn't done that, so I think it's fair to argue that he might have ruined Collingwood from being far more successful with that side.
The whole argument around Buckley is that he was too focused on building his own team, rather than building on Mick's list and that it has backfired. It certainly has merit in my view. Back in 2012/13 when it began, we thought by now they'd have some young guns to complement the aging ones and keep them up the top of the ladder. It hasn't happened.
As for Carlton, that's merely an example of a coach trying to work miracles. That list wasn't his own and by the time he started getting a list better accustomed to what he wanted, the results weren't there and time was ticking.
