Nathan Buckley's playing stats

[Knightmare]

Nathan is the greatest Collingwood player we've had, and I'll ever see I'm sure.

If he hadn't played for the 'despised' Collingwood, and pinched a flag somewhere - he'd be considering in the 7-10 greatest ever IMO.

The criteria of being the greatest in a team sport is an interesting one.

With the AFL being a 22 man game, the reality in the AFL is you're one of 22 contributing to winning. As one individual, it is unrealistic even if playing a central role to expect to contribute any more than 10% to the eventual result.

Given this, I don't personally consider premierships won as being a component in a greatest ever evaluation.

Buckley never won, Lockett never won, Ablett SNR never won, N.Riewoldt and Pavlich never won.

It doesn't for me take away any value from any of them.

If they have proven to shrink in finals regularly on an individual level. That would for me.

Buckley winning the Norm Smith in a losing grand final? It only speaks to how profoundly great he was.

 

[ThexderX]

I'm comfortable to admit I've waivered on Bucks the coach. In fact I vehemently didn't want him re-signed.

I've never waivered on the greatness of him as a player.

He is an out and out champion player, unfortunately overlooked by some because he played for Collingwood, a la the team of the century farce.

I'll never forget the day I saw him run past 5 of our own players just to put some pressure on a kicker, which resulted in a scrubby kick...never go down as a stat, but he busted his arse week in, week out, for most of his career in a struggling team.

A true playing great and I still have my #5 Spicers collared jumper at home.

 

[Mukesh]

Was about the graceful elegance.

He might be an A grade turd, but he sure was elegant and smooth on field.
Moved effortlessly.

Hhmmmm.... I wonder why

 

[el toado]

Third best for me Pie.

I had the privilege to watch the entire careers of both Peter Daicos and John Greening. Poor John could tear any team apart in 20 minutes virtually single handed and Peter was a law unto himself.

But in recent times Buckley stands head and shoulders above the rest.

For those that haven't seen it . . .



A great reminder.

Always great to see that video again. His ability to kick those goals from 45m - 60m on the run was amazing, although for me his trademark play was when he gathered the ball spreading from a stoppage and kicked a 50m+ laser pass to a teammate who didnt have to break stride. I swear one day I saw him kick a ball from the defensive 50 which hit Sav on the chest at the forward 50 line and the ball didnt go above head height.

 

[Soups]

Third best for me Pie.

I had the privilege to watch the entire careers of both Peter Daicos and John Greening. Poor John could tear any team apart in 20 minutes virtually single handed and Peter was a law unto himself.

But in recent times Buckley stands head and shoulders above the rest.

For those that haven't seen it . . .



A great reminder.

Thanks for that video. I haven’t thought of, or watched any of Buckley’s football career in a very long time. He was my ultimate favourite player as a kid and watching that video brought back some good memories. He truly was the best kick of the football I have ever seen. Going to be hard to knock him off that perch I think.

 

[regpies]

The best kick in footy you’ll ever see. Left or right foot 50m bullet passes, never seen another player like it.

 

[jonbe54]

The best kick in footy you’ll ever see. Left or right foot 50m bullet passes, never seen another player like it.

55 / 60 meter goals on the run half goal post high were commonplace.

 

[Robroy22]

The best kick in footy you’ll ever see. Left or right foot 50m bullet passes, never seen another player like it.

All these blokes could do that, so could lots more?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

The best kick in footy you’ll ever see. Left or right foot 50m bullet passes, never seen another player like it.

Kicked them too hard at times. His teammates sometimes struggled to nail the mark as the ball came in like a Viv Richards pull shot.

Learned later in his career to weight the ball a bit so his teammates had a realistic chance of the ball not bouncing off their chests!!!

(Its the same lesson hes been learning his entire career, how to play or coach football like a mere mortal and not a demigod)

 

[Piestration]

Third best for me Pie.

I had the privilege to watch the entire careers of both Peter Daicos and John Greening. Poor John could tear any team apart in 20 minutes virtually single handed and Peter was a law unto himself.

But in recent times Buckley stands head and shoulders above the rest.

For those that haven't seen it . . .



A great reminder.

At 6.03 I don't know where that Lions players was going as Bucks gathered. Looks like he is running away as quickly as possible.

 

[loki04]

Greening was/is (still)the best Pie I've ever seen. To achieve that through only 100 or so games tells you something.
There was simply NOTHING he couldn't do on a footy field. And by "do" I mean EXCEL at.

I read Bob Murphy's article about sportsmanship on the field and shaking hands before and after games and I remembered that day at Moorabbin. About a minute before he was king-hit and almost killed by Jimmy O'Dea he'd shaken that mongrel's hand as he always did to everyone he played on. I wouldn't mind chopping off O'Dea's hand even today (and its been 46 years)

Johnny Greening was simply a champion.

Seemed to have a lot of speed, kicking skills, high mark and flair, if I had a small knock *off the small footage available* it seems his handballing and bouncing on the run were the only poor points to his game.

 

[HeathySure]

The criteria of being the greatest in a team sport is an interesting one.

With the AFL being a 22 man game, the reality in the AFL is you're one of 22 contributing to winning. As one individual, it is unrealistic even if playing a central role to expect to contribute any more than 10% to the eventual result.

Given this, I don't personally consider premierships won as being a component in a greatest ever evaluation.

Buckley never won, Lockett never won, Ablett SNR never won, N.Riewoldt and Pavlich never won.

It doesn't for me take away any value from any of them.

If they have proven to shrink in finals regularly on an individual level. That would for me.

Buckley winning the Norm Smith in a losing grand final? It only speaks to how profoundly great he was.

Except for Riewoldt, the others didnt win because of their selfishness. Pavlich and Ablett snr especially. the best players brought others into the games as well as be great themselves. Its a slight negative for me. Its why i rate Pendles higher than Buckley, because Pendles brings others into the game (he can't help if they are terrible!) but Buckley tried to do it all himself.

 

[loki04]

Thanks for that video. I haven’t thought of, or watched any of Buckley’s football career in a very long time. He was my ultimate favourite player as a kid and watching that video brought back some good memories. He truly was the best kick of the football I have ever seen. Going to be hard to knock him off that perch I think.

Here's another reminder.


And 2006 on 1 leg destroying Brisbane.

 

[loki04]

Except for Riewoldt, the others didnt win because of their selfishness. Pavlich and Ablett snr especially. the best players brought others into the games as well as be great themselves. Its a slight negative for me. Its why i rate Pendles higher than Buckley, because Pendles brings others into the game (he can't help if they are terrible!) but Buckley tried to do it all himself.

Buckley brought others into the game or are you suggesting he kicked to himself and handballed to himself?

His vision and kicking to advantage was excellent he could thread the eye of the needle and hit players he had no right too, often giving them shots on goal.

Just because he "demanded" the footy doesn't mean he didn't make those around him shine.


Buckley was a true attacking *power* midfielder, the 2 that are similar types today are Martin and Dangerfield but have they have lesser kicks on them in comparison.
Oh and Pendles is a pie great and a chmp of the game, but he wasn't in Buckley's tier not many are.

 

[HeathySure]

Buckley brought others into the game or are you suggesting he kicked to himself and handballed to himself?

His vision and kicking to advantage was excellent he could thread the eye of the needle and hit players he had no right too, often giving them shots on goal.

Just because he "demanded" the footy doesn't mean he didn't make those around him shine.


Buckley was a true attacking *power* midfielder, the 2 that are similar types today are Martin and Dangerfield but have they have lesser kicks on them in comparison.
Oh and Pendles is a pie great and a chmp of the game, but he wasn't in Buckley's tier not many are.

Demanding the ball is not conducive to team football when other players are in better positions. Its something that he had brought into his coaching as well. He has finally seen the light there.

 

[Knightmare]

Except for Riewoldt, the others didnt win because of their selfishness. Pavlich and Ablett snr especially. the best players brought others into the games as well as be great themselves. Its a slight negative for me. Its why i rate Pendles higher than Buckley, because Pendles brings others into the game (he can't help if they are terrible!) but Buckley tried to do it all himself.

Are any of them selfish?

Selfishness in football I look at more as either lack of professionalism - drinking the day of the game, having late nights, not doing recovery or not maintaining a suitable diet or habits to stay in game-shape. Or in an on field context not knowing your limitations and trying to do more than you're capable of too often - resulting in turnovers/holding the ball or shots at goal missed from unrealistic positions when teammates were open inside 50m and would have finished their opportunities. None of that relates to Buckley.

Of those, Ablett SNR arguably a case could be made around, though he was so brilliant I wouldn't have described as selfish. Everything he attempted was realistic for him because he was such a special talent.

Selfishness I don't apply to Buckley. He was selfless. He didn't pad his stats by handballing and asking for the ball back, or kicking short and expecting it back. He looked i50 for targets and would lower his eyes were appropriate rather than blast away unrealistically - and when he did attempt long goals - it was well within his capabilities and the correct decision. Players targeted him at every opportunity and Buckley would drive the ball long to meaningful targets. He was about making winning plays. He had to be targeted so often because he never played with an All-Australian midfielder during his prime (1996-2003) and never had a talented team - the only All-Australian he played with during those years was Chris Tarrant (2003) which speaks to how little he had to play alongside.

Pendlebury I don't have in the same conversation as Buckley, and we're talking about arguably the second best midfielder from the past 10 seasons on any list in terms of sustained quality of play during that period.

 

[jonbe54]

Demanding the ball is not conducive to team football when other players are in better positions. Its something that he had brought into his coaching as well. He has finally seen the light there.

There is always a balance - demanding the ball can be selfish but it can be responsible.

Cometh the hour, cometh the man is no empty rhetoric.

When times are dark the true champions step forth and say 'I will take responsibility for our fortunes'. . . knowing full well that there will be slinkers that wait to deride failure and seek to trivialize success.

 

[Piestration]

Except for Riewoldt, the others didnt win because of their selfishness. Pavlich and Ablett snr especially. the best players brought others into the games as well as be great themselves. Its a slight negative for me. Its why i rate Pendles higher than Buckley, because Pendles brings others into the game (he can't help if they are terrible!) but Buckley tried to do it all himself.

If only he was selfish this day. 5.45

 

[HeathySure]

Are any of them selfish?

Selfishness in football I look at more as either lack of professionalism - drinking the day of the game, having late nights, not doing recovery or not maintaining a suitable diet or habits to stay in game-shape. Or in an on field context not knowing your limitations and trying to do more than you're capable of too often - resulting in turnovers/holding the ball or shots at goal missed from unrealistic positions when teammates were open inside 50m and would have finished their opportunities. None of that relates to Buckley.

Of those, Ablett SNR arguably a case could be made around, though he was so brilliant I wouldn't have described as selfish. Everything he attempted was realistic for him because he was such a special talent.

Selfishness I don't apply to Buckley. He was selfless. He didn't pad his stats by handballing and asking for the ball back, or kicking short and expecting it back. He looked i50 for targets and would lower his eyes were appropriate rather than blast away unrealistically - and when he did attempt long goals - it was well within his capabilities and the correct decision. Players targeted him at every opportunity and Buckley would drive the ball long to meaningful targets. He was about making winning plays. He had to be targeted so often because he never played with an All-Australian midfielder during his prime (1996-2003) and never had a talented team - the only All-Australian he played with during those years was Chris Tarrant (2003) which speaks to how little he had to play alongside.

Pendlebury I don't have in the same conversation as Buckley, and we're talking about arguably the second best midfielder from the past 10 seasons on any list in terms of sustained quality of play during that period.

Its the Wilt Chamberlain vs the Bill Russell debate. Both had loads of abilty, Wilt probably more, but the ultimate aim of playing team sports is winning a premiership. Wilt absolutely had more skill than Russell, but Russells teams won because he was the better team player.
Buckley is a Wilt, Pendles is a Bill Russell. I am not denigrating Buckley at all, he clearly has all the skills but he had a fatal flaw. Pendles cant run, cannot kick that well, but is the ultimate team player.
Franklin and Ablett left their teams and those teams still won premierships, Buckley left and Collingwood won as well, They are all time champions. but they are not the be all and end all.
Clarkson said after Franklin kicked 100 goals, never do that again. He wanted him as part of the team and look what happened.
I think you are looking at Buckley with rose coloured glasses, yes he was awesome, but he was not perfect. He kicked the ball too hard, he demanded it when others where in better places (and I can understand this with his mindset, he had no trust in others because he had so much more ability, but its not the way to win) and he got players offside with his selfishness (way more so in the early days)

 

[jonbe54]

A long standing aversion explains so much.

 

[HeathySure]

There is always a balance - demanding the ball can be selfish but it can be responsible.

Cometh the hour, cometh the man is no empty rhetoric.

When times are dark the true champions step forth and say 'I will take responsibility for our fortunes'. . . knowing full well that there will be slinkers that wait to deride failure and seek to trivialize success.

I dont totally disagree with this, Buckley played in horrible sides and he literally almost dragged us to a premiership in 2002, but it wasnt enough. We weren't good enough that year and his performance was awesome, but as i said its a 22 player game not a single player game.

 

[jonbe54]

I dont totally disagree with this, Buckley played in horrible sides and he literally almost dragged us to a premiership in 2002, but it wasnt enough. We weren't good enough that year and his performance was awesome, but as i said its a 22 player game not a single player game.

Your welcome to disagree all you like, your distaste for Buckley's type is clear so for me that colours every post you make on the subject.

 

[Dynamics]

Be fun to pick a team of pure smooth operators. Not the forceful bustling types etc but the elegant.

Eg Pendlebury, Raines, Flower, hird, Quinlan. Keith Grieg! Daniel Wells come to that.
Be some team.

Great call with Flower. What a footballer he was.

 

[loki04]

Demanding the ball is not conducive to team football when other players are in better positions. Its something that he had brought into his coaching as well. He has finally seen the light there.

I've seen Pendles demand the ball too. Most players will if they feel they are in a position to impact the game. Or are your referring to the stories about him abusing younger teammates to give him the ball?

I'll tell you some areas of the game Buckley had over Pendes, the ability to directly change the momentum in the game in both s**t teams and good ones, kick goals from 50-65m out, burst from the center and goal and do it all while having a tagger his whole career.

Bucks was on another tier to Pendles imo.

 

[loki04]

Its the Wilt Chamberlain vs the Bill Russell debate. Both had loads of abilty, Wilt probably more, but the ultimate aim of playing team sports is winning a premiership. Wilt absolutely had more skill than Russell, but Russells teams won because he was the better team player.
Buckley is a Wilt, Pendles is a Bill Russell. I am not denigrating Buckley at all, he clearly has all the skills but he had a fatal flaw. Pendles cant run, cannot kick that well, but is the ultimate team player.
Franklin and Ablett left their teams and those teams still won premierships, Buckley left and Collingwood won as well, They are all time champions. but they are not the be all and end all.
Clarkson said after Franklin kicked 100 goals, never do that again. He wanted him as part of the team and look what happened.
I think you are looking at Buckley with rose coloured glasses, yes he was awesome, but he was not perfect. He kicked the ball too hard, he demanded it when others where in better places (and I can understand this with his mindset, he had no trust in others because he had so much more ability, but its not the way to win) and he got players offside with his selfishness (way more so in the early days)

You swap Pendles and Buckley around from 02/03 vs 10/11 teams and the 02/03 sides likely don't even make a GF yet the 10/11 sides would likely go back to back.