Certified Legendary Thread Nathan Freeman Updates

[RoundCubic]

I agree that Freeman is a long shot. I just think the odds are stacked against him. A speculative high risk high return trade.

Jesse White was always a fringe GOP. The only thing going for Freeman is lack of exposed form. I would take the handball receive theory with a pinch of salt. GAJ was a soft outside player who became the best player in the comp. So, players do change and improve. In no way, I am comparing Freeman to GAJ though - just an analogy.

So, given that he is such an outside chance, I think Pies should be happy to get a rd 2 pick for him.

In any case, we'd probably know how it is turning out by the end of 2016.

Its our Stringer/Burton recruit we'll just wait and see

 

[Kildonan]

Pretty sure I've already said that both clubs must have felt they could get him right. I'm not sure why you seem to think I have to drop all my skepticism because of that.

Just as an aside, scepticism is spelled with a "c" here in Australia. Admittedly we often use the term "skeptic" (adopting the universal spelling) as a person who bases their decisions on evidence. As I am extremely sceptical that you have more evidence than either Collingwood's or St Kilda's specialists, I presume that you actually mean scepticism - which is a less specific term analogous to "doubt as to the truth of something". We have heard your opinion several times now. We prefer to listen to our strongly evidence-based sources and we only barely tolerate the opinion-based sources. Our toleration is running thin.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Its the preliminary for the pre-season comp though, you know we all give a massive crap about that.

Based on the sooking on here after the Kangas game, I'd say it appears that way.

 

[Apex36]

Just as an aside, scepticism is spelled with a "c" here in Australia. Admittedly we often use the term "skeptic" (adopting the universal spelling) as a person who bases their decisions on evidence. As I am extremely sceptical that you have more evidence than either Collingwood's or St Kilda's specialists, I presume that you actually mean scepticism - which is a less specific term analogous to "doubt as to the truth of something". We have heard your opinion several times now. We prefer to listen to our strongly evidence-based sources and we only barely tolerate the opinion-based sources. Our toleration is running thin.

My spelling gets auto corrected on my iPhone and I cbf changing it

Also, I'm not sure why you'd have an issue with anyone politely stating their opinion on a forum, but each to their own.

 

[Verdun]

Pretty sure I've already said that both clubs must have felt they could get him right. I'm not sure why you seem to think I have to drop all my skepticism because of that.

the point is - it does not matter to us if you are skeptical.

 

[sammm]

Funny how these Collingwood fans have no hard feelings and wish him the best, but can't seem to stop thinking about the guy.

we do the same

eg Goddard and Ball

 

[sammm]

Why would two AFL clubs offer 300k a season to a bloke that won't play? There's a reason why all these tests have been done.

didn't we do that to {i've forgotten the players name} the one we picked up from another club that had the bad foot or ankle in the hope that we could fix it. but we couldn't?

 

[Cornish]

Meandering off the track again

 

[Adam H]

didn't we do that to {i've forgotten the players name} the one we picked up from another club that had the bad foot or ankle in the hope that we could fix it. but we couldn't?

We took Smith with a very late pick in hope more than anything.

 

[NarrowMind]

didn't we do that to {i've forgotten the players name} the one we picked up from another club that had the bad foot or ankle in the hope that we could fix it. but we couldn't?

Fergus Watts?

 

[Kildonan]

didn't we do that to {i've forgotten the players name} the one we picked up from another club that had the bad foot or ankle in the hope that we could fix it. but we couldn't?

We took Smith with a very late pick in hope more than anything.

Fergus Watts?

Adam H was right - it was Jesse W Smith as a 23 yo with a late pick and we gave our specialists a chance to get him right - was a very talented junior but barely was able to demonstrate how good he was before being struck down with ultimately career ending ankle injuries. Played just 27 games but could have been a star.

 

[Adam H]

Fergus Watts?

Fergus Watts staying fit would have seen us win a flag.

 

[cooperrules]

they should be spending more time rehabbing Clokes kicking style - needs to start again

Nah no use too much smoke and shadows behind the window. Bahahahahaha

 

[sammm]

Adam H was right - it was Jesse W Smith as a 23 yo with a late pick and we gave our specialists a chance to get him right - was a very talented junior but barely was able to demonstrate how good he was before being struck down with ultimately career ending ankle injuries. Played just 27 games but could have been a star.

ye[ thanks for that/ i forgot him name. i even tried to look it up and still couldn't find it.

 

[RoundCubic]

didn't we do that to {i've forgotten the players name} the one we picked up from another club that had the bad foot or ankle in the hope that we could fix it. but we couldn't?

Watts trade was slightly influenced by his father being the CEO and it was an injury after he got to us that really did him in also we gave a 1st rounder for Watts not a 2nd.
Freeman is a gamble but we likely traded about pick 30 for him and most years pick 30 is about 30% chance to play 100 games

 

[Defacto]

Would have preferred to give up last years 2nd rounder for him but overall its a slight difference. Im happy with the trade

 

[gringo2011]

Watts trade was slightly influenced by his father being the CEO and it was an injury after he got to us that really did him in also we gave a 1st rounder for Watts not a 2nd.
Freeman is a gamble but we likely traded about pick 30 for him and most years pick 30 is about 30% chance to play 100 games

How did he cost pick 30? I thought it was our second rounder which if we finish down the bottom of the ladder should be an early 20s pick. Last year Kieran Collins, Kieran Lovell, Keayes, Partington, Ryan Clarke, Bonner, Dunkley, Mathieson all still there all still around with an early 20s pick. I don't mind taking risks but it is either a master stroke or an over pay. I think Port paid a similar price for Polack and I think the Pies got Aish for something similar at the trade table. Both comparable as high picks who were worth less after trading out to a club of choice.

We won't find out for a few years but they didn't let him go cheap and we paid handsomely considering his injury history to this point. I'm a conservative as far as building the list goes so I would have been wary- it's not like he was JOM who has at least shown he is a top line player at his best. I hope he does well and he is distantly related to me so I really hope he has a great career but there are some concerns. I have never actually met him and have no inside knowledge on his injuries though.

 

[RoundCubic]

How did he cost pick 30? I thought it was our second rounder which if we finish down the bottom of the ladder should be an early 20s pick. Last year Kieran Collins, Kieran Lovell, Keayes, Partington, Ryan Clarke, Bonner, Dunkley, Mathieson all still there all still around with an early 20s pick. I don't mind taking risks but it is either a master stroke or an over pay. I think Port paid a similar price for Polack and I think the Pies got Aish for something similar at the trade table. Both comparable as high picks who were worth less after trading out to a club of choice.

We won't find out for a few years but they didn't let him go cheap and we paid handsomely considering his injury history to this point. I'm a conservative as far as building the list goes so I would have been wary- it's not like he was JOM who has at least shown he is a top line player at his best. I hope he does well and he is distantly related to me so I really hope he has a great career but there are some concerns. I have never actually met him and have no inside knowledge on his injuries though.

I said "likely traded about pick 30" that is what our 2015 2nd round ended up.
Even if we won the spoon it wouldn't be lower then 24 but I would back us to finish ahead of Carlton and Essendon.
The draft is a gamble and so is the Freeman deal but his TAC form would have seen him go around 10 in any draft.
Aish cost twice Freeman which is a fair trade.
If our and Collingwoods medical staff are right the big negative on Freeman is that we will have to go easy on him this year to fully rehabilitate his hamstring or it could take a couple years to change his running style and have him preform.
Please just ease off till the end of 2017 if he's a bust at that point you can run around saying i told you so but right now its just unneeded we get enough Collingwood fans coming here to say it already.

 

[sauce_head]

Pardon me, that was his 2012 TAC Cup season. In 2013 he had 108 possessions of which 33 were from handball receives. Even so the ratio is pretty similar, and it paints the picture of an outside player who doesn't yet find a lot of his own ball.

In all seriousness, what would the ratio for a head ball specialist be? 33% handball received doesn't seem outrageously high to me...!

 

[gringo2011]

I said "likely traded about pick 30" that is what our 2015 2nd round ended up.
Even if we won the spoon it wouldn't be lower then 24 but I would back us to finish ahead of Carlton and Essendon.
The draft is a gamble and so is the Freeman deal but his TAC form would have seen him go around 10 in any draft.
Aish cost twice Freeman which is a fair trade.
If our and Collingwoods medical staff are right the big negative on Freeman is that we will have to go easy on him this year to fully rehabilitate his hamstring or it could take a couple years to change his running style and have him preform.
Please just ease off till the end of 2017 if he's a bust at that point you can run around saying i told you so but right now its just unneeded we get enough Collingwood fans coming here to say it already.

I'm definitely not saying he's a bust -he's high risk. Very different, I truly hope he's a gun, I liked him in the draft that year so I'm no hater I just don't think we got him for a bargain price. I am in complete agreement on waiting, I'm just saying it could be a stuff up. There are three ways it goes, he's a gun for another 10 years and we bent Collingwood over and stole him, he never gets his injuries right and Collingwood bent us over or he get rights but plays to a substandard level and is delisted in a few years which is probably on par with what can happen with any second round recruit so probably a neutral outcome.

 

[Cornish]

I remember when Darrel Baldock, The Doc, Mr. Magic played his last game, then In 1969, Baldock returned to Tasmania and captain-coached Latrobe to four consecutive NWFU premierships from 1969 to 1972. Baldock played 158 games for Latrobe before finishing in 1974. He then played four games for New Norfolk in 1975 before beginning his parliamentary career. In state rep games, Baldock represented Victoria 10 times, Tasmania 15 times and the NW football union 20 times.

The Doc was also a great cricketer

 

[plugger66]

I'm definitely not saying he's a bust -he's high risk. Very different, I truly hope he's a gun, I liked him in the draft that year so I'm no hater I just don't think we got him for a bargain price. I am in complete agreement on waiting, I'm just saying it could be a stuff up. There are three ways it goes, he's a gun for another 10 years and we bent Collingwood over and stole him, he never gets his injuries right and Collingwood bent us over or he get rights but plays to a substandard level and is delisted in a few years which is probably on par with what can happen with any second round recruit so probably a neutral outcome.

Was Seb Ross high risk? Jamie Cripps?

 

[RoundCubic]

I'm definitely not saying he's a bust -he's high risk. Very different, I truly hope he's a gun, I liked him in the draft that year so I'm no hater I just don't think we got him for a bargain price. I am in complete agreement on waiting, I'm just saying it could be a stuff up. There are three ways it goes, he's a gun for another 10 years and we bent Collingwood over and stole him, he never gets his injuries right and Collingwood bent us over or he get rights but plays to a substandard level and is delisted in a few years which is probably on par with what can happen with any second round recruit so probably a neutral outcome.

I guess its a matter of perspective I see Freeman as worth a 2nd even if he is a bust but if he comes good we didn't bend over Collingwood it was just an even trade considering his potential vs injury cloud if we had given a 3rd then we would of got a steal.
The only frustration is that we have done much better in recent years with our 2nd 3rd round draft picks and probably have closer to a 60% chance in the second round of drafting a 100 gamer but would they be fast.
We have a speed issue and in the same way rucks have fallen down the draft fast mids have gone up and that's why Freeman is mana from heaven for us and some had going even earlier. Freeman gets his body right he is exactly the type of inside outside strong fast mid we are missing.

 

[gringo2011]

Was Seb Ross high risk? Jamie Cripps?

Well Jamie Cripps looks like a very good player at WCE and and Seb Ross is looking like he might fulfil his potential so I guess not. If we assessed all our second round picks in recent years they seem to have a pretty good strike rate. If Freeman turns out to be a first round quality player for a second round pick he's a bargain. But if he's a flop he's expensive. Only time will tell.

I was probably a little disappointed in going early on bypassing the draft for some quick bargains. So far Carlisle and Freeman have been disappointing because we have not been able to see what we have even at training. If we had a NAB game and Francis was running around i would have got my instant gratification and been able to shut the **** up. we are playing the long game when they

 

[plugger66]

Well Jamie Cripps looks like a very good player at WCE and and Seb Ross is looking like he might fulfil his potential so I guess not. If we assessed all our second round picks in recent years they seem to have a pretty good strike rate. If Freeman turns out to be a first round quality player for a second round pick he's a bargain. But if he's a flop he's expensive. Only time will tell.

I was probably a little disappointed in going early on bypassing the draft for some quick bargains. So far Carlisle and Freeman have been disappointing because we have not been able to see what we have even at training. If we had a NAB game and Francis was running around i would have got my instant gratification and been able to shut the **** up. we are playing the long game when they

I don't think at around pick 30 he is expensive. About a third of those type of picks make it so if he doesn't he going in the majority category. No huge risk as far as I can see.