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Certified Legendary Thread Nathan Freeman Updates

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aussierulesrules said:
This. The hysteria is mildly amusing.

Freezer went pick 10 in his draft largely because of his freakish athleticism (mainly his speed, but also his rare speed/endurance combo), not because he was dominating games on his footy ability- he wasn't racking up huge numbers, wasn't winning a huge amount of CP's or clearances, his kicking wasn't anything special and he wasn't kicking loads of goals- so if he ever lost that speed (as he looks to have done) he was always likely to be up against it, and that's proven to be the case.

He was probably only given a senior game out of goodwill, as it's not like he was dominating games at VFL level and it also sounds like he wasn't really running both ways, which doesn't help his cause.

At least he got to live out his dream and play senior AFL footy, and if he's good enough then hopefully another club will give him a shot.

As for how much money we've spent on him, that's basically irrelevant, as we had to spend that cap space on someone, and what we paid him wasn't much more than the average AFL wage, so it's no huge biggie.

We took a punt and gave it a serious shot and it hasn't worked out. Unfortunate, but life. We all move on.
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But surely he was a project that they cut just as he got his body right. We traded out of this draft with only one useable pick. It's not like we will replace him with those. It means we have to trade out of next years draft to use picks in this draft, trade high value players etc. It sounds like Hanners will come and he's pretty much a project injury bust right now who will be on huge money and not offer more than any other of our mids. Menzel is an injury riddled player too. I don't mind making mistakes....they happen, but not learning from them is unwise.
 
AirWinmar said:
Trading Ray and keeping Joyce is another Saints mystery
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Don't think so - Ray was originally a defender who couldn't defend before becoming a forward who didn't kick many goals and still couldn't defend.

Darragh can at least defend.
 
Typical stkilda
StCicatriz said:
this. its mind boggling how people can't see it.

its god damn obvious he isn't AFL standard
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Look I'll play devils advocate to your comment here.

Nathan Freeman hasn't done a proper pre-season in his 5 seasons of AFL.
In his 2 games of AFL he was played out of his natural position (played on the wing instead of in the middle) and played what maybe 60% average game time?

Will his body improve to endure the demands of a full AFL season? Would he then be good enough? I guess we'll probably never know.

The club knows better than us but that supporters no longer have faith in those making the decisions within the club and this is the tip of the ice berg for a lot of people.
 

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gringo2011 said:
But surely he was a project that they cut just as he got his body right. We traded out of this draft with only one useable pick. It's not like we will replace him with those. It means we have to trade out of next years draft to use picks in this draft, trade high value players etc. It sounds like Hanners will come and he's pretty much a project injury bust right now who will be on huge money and not offer more than any other of our mids. Menzel is an injury riddled player too. I don't mind making mistakes....they happen, but not learning from them is unwise.
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Menzel will be fine until his next ACL. No doubt 5 minutes after he moves to the Saints.
 
gringo2011 said:
But surely he was a project that they cut just as he got his body right. We traded out of this draft with only one useable pick. It's not like we will replace him with those. It means we have to trade out of next years draft to use picks in this draft, trade high value players etc. It sounds like Hanners will come and he's pretty much a project injury bust right now who will be on huge money and not offer more than any other of our mids. Menzel is an injury riddled player too. I don't mind making mistakes....they happen, but not learning from them is unwise.
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Sorry Gringo - there's no way anyone can say Freeman had his body right. Yep - he got it as fit as he could get it but it was a long way short of what was required for him to be an effective AFL player.

Go back and watch those two games - he played outside and received the ball and then moved it on - its claimed he had blistering pace - well at the end of his longest run of pretty much uninterrupted football he could barely break into a canter.

And for the "Oh we've killed Bambi" stuff - I bet they'd all be whinging if the club said in Round 20 or so - sorry nope he's got no hope he's gonna be a reasonable accumulator at VFL level but now lacks the skill set to be effective at AFL level so he won't be getting a game - ever!!!.

Imagine the rants and melts if that had of happened.

I admire his effort and dedication but it just hasn't worked out.

Move on!!!
 
pebblesofsand said:
Sorry Gringo - there's no way anyone can say Freeman had his body right. Yep - he got it as fit as he could get it but it was a long way short of what was required for him to be an effective AFL player.

Go back and watch those two games - he played outside and received the ball and then moved it on - its claimed he had blistering pace - well at the end of his longest run of pretty much uninterrupted football he could barely break into a canter.

And for the "Oh we've killed Bambi" stuff - I bet they'd all be whinging if the club said in Round 20 or so - sorry nope he's got no hope he's gonna be a reasonable accumulator at VFL level but now lacks the skill set to be effective at AFL level so he won't be getting a game - ever!!!.

Imagine the rants and melts if that had of happened.

I admire his effort and dedication but it just hasn't worked out.

Move on!!!
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I still think it's pretty pointless, they went in with their eyes open. Armo can't move his back, plenty have to re design their game around injury. We are getting Hanners who has spent 2 years looking like Nathan Freemans 2 games. Surely they have learnt something from this.

He's gone now but it's symbolic of how poorly managed this side seems to be. We traded out of this draft so can't even reload. You literally use our later picks to upgrade rookies. Any players we can afford to lose aren't going to get us back into the draft.



Expect some big shocks and pain and any improvement won't come from the moves we are making so far. Lycett is maybe a 20% upgrade on our rucks. Menzel is a higher scoring player but we look to be losing Lonie who actually defend the ball coming out and Hanners is about Armo quality. I would say we are moving across for no reason.
 
gringo2011 said:
I still think it's pretty pointless, they went in with their eyes open. Armo can't move his back, plenty have to re design their game around injury. We are getting Hanners who has spent 2 years looking like Nathan Freemans 2 games. Surely they have learnt something from this.

He's gone now but it's symbolic of how poorly managed this side seems to be. We traded out of this draft so can't even reload. You literally use our later picks to upgrade rookies. Any players we can afford to lose aren't going to get us back into the draft.



Expect some big shocks and pain and any improvement won't come from the moves we are making so far. Lycett is maybe a 20% upgrade on our rucks. Menzel is a higher scoring player but we look to be losing Lonie who actually defend the ball coming out and Hanners is about Armo quality. I would say we are moving across for no reason.
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The Lonie thing I just don't get at all. He was a whipping boy around here until his 5 games at the end of the year.
I've always seen his upside and been a fan. He's extremely skilfull and while that doesn't always come off, his agility and footy brain is better than most. Be a real shame if we loose him but worse if we just let him walk. He'll make another team better instantly...especially a good team!
 
gringo2011 said:
I still think it's pretty pointless, they went in with their eyes open. Armo can't move his back, plenty have to re design their game around injury. We are getting Hanners who has spent 2 years looking like Nathan Freemans 2 games. Surely they have learnt something from this.

He's gone now but it's symbolic of how poorly managed this side seems to be. We traded out of this draft so can't even reload. You literally use our later picks to upgrade rookies. Any players we can afford to lose aren't going to get us back into the draft.



Expect some big shocks and pain and any improvement won't come from the moves we are making so far. Lycett is maybe a 20% upgrade on our rucks. Menzel is a higher scoring player but we look to be losing Lonie who actually defend the ball coming out and Hanners is about Armo quality. I would say we are moving across for no reason.
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I've never been big on the de-list Lonie thing. To me he'll slowly get bigger and stronger and play better as he does. Hell Milney was 83Kg in the end. And good Kg, not McCartin Kg.

Hannebury: ??? Obviously its just about retirement time for Armo, and we have an opening for a guy with tons of ability but unable to utilise it.
 

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The upshot is you're delisting the kid after he has finally got his body right and broken into the side.
After all the investment in him it is like selling a stock after wearing all the loss and the price is just starting to bounce.
It just makes no sense - nobody knows what this kid can be.
A rookie spot would have been fine and done no harm.
Smfh.
 
"At VFL level Freeman became a prolific midfielder, averaging 22 disposals from 11 matches for the season. But the real numbers were only known behind closed doors, where it became apparent to St Kilda’s coaches and fitness staff via his GPS readings that he was either incapable or hesitant to reach top speed."

like i said, the club has detail we don't have
 
gringo2011 said:
But surely he was a project that they cut just as he got his body right. We traded out of this draft with only one useable pick. It's not like we will replace him with those. It means we have to trade out of next years draft to use picks in this draft, trade high value players etc. It sounds like Hanners will come and he's pretty much a project injury bust right now who will be on huge money and not offer more than any other of our mids. Menzel is an injury riddled player too. I don't mind making mistakes....they happen, but not learning from them is unwise.
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The reality is that every club makes decisions that they think are right at the time. Eg: Everyone was saying Tom Mitchell was surplus to the swans needs due to Kennedy Parker Hannebery which was true and the swans were only prepared to pay him so much and that’s why he left. Now he’s hawks no.1 inside midfielder, when he was never going to take that mantle off Kennedy at swans. If Hannebery did leave they may allow it to happen because it suits there needs now. It’s not because they don’t rate him, his record speaks for itself. Yes his form line this year and this year only has been down but there are clear reasons. His record in terms of durability is second to none. He’s averaged 21 games a year since debut and that includes his first year living in Melbourne. I laugh when people make comments without really knowing the facts.
 
ariano said:
The reality is that every club makes decisions that they think are right at the time. Eg: Everyone was saying Tom Mitchell was surplus to the swans needs due to Kennedy Parker Hannebery which was true and the swans were only prepared to pay him so much and that’s why he left. Now he’s hawks no.1 inside midfielder, when he was never going to take that mantle off Kennedy at swans. If Hannebery did leave they may allow it to happen because it suits there needs now. It’s not because they don’t rate him, his record speaks for itself. Yes his form line this year and this year only has been down but there are clear reasons. His record in terms of durability is second to none. He’s averaged 21 games a year since debut and that includes his first year living in Melbourne. I laugh when people make comments without really knowing the facts.
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Oh sorry, I didn't know you had his medical reports. You want to get rid of him because you are over paying for someone who can spread which was his game when he used to be a gun. We will sell you Armitage, he was our best player a few years ago. Should be a first round pick base on what he used to be able to do.

How many strikes is he on seeing you have medical reports?
 
It seems as though Freeman gave his all to make his AFL debut, and that may never have been enough if we were playing better footy this season. Even though he is still young and was a top 10 draft choice it doesn't necessarily mean he is going to be a gun AFL player.
I was one who was screaming for him to get a shot at the top level, he deserved it for some quality games in the VFL. But what I saw in his 2 matches wasn't particularly awe inspiring. Maybe in time with more league footy he'd be better but how long do you keeo someone who's played 2 games in 5 years?
Perhaps his greatest achievement is finally actually making it to AFL level and that's all it was ever going to be. I was shocked and saddened to hear he got delisted and would for sure like to see him get another year at least but maybe the coaches and staff are making the right decision.
It isn't the first time a top 10 draft pick is delisted despite having apparent talent and it won't be the last. But good luck to him wherever he ends up!
 

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I like the way that after spending money and time of Freeman, they just told him he is too mentally scarred to use all his leg power. They basically admitted they cant coach someone to do that.

We can't coach, we'll have to let you go.
 
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gringo2011 said:
Oh sorry, I didn't know you had his medical reports. You want to get rid of him because you are over paying for someone who can spread which was his game when he used to be a gun. We will sell you Armitage, he was our best player a few years ago. Should be a first round pick base on what he used to be able to do.

How many strikes is he on seeing you have medical reports?
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Come on mate David Armitage does not even nearly have the runs on the board that hanners does and is 4 years older than hannebrey is. Totally different injuries as well. They aren't comparable at all.
 
StCicatriz said:
"At VFL level Freeman became a prolific midfielder, averaging 22 disposals from 11 matches for the season. But the real numbers were only known behind closed doors, where it became apparent to St Kilda’s coaches and fitness staff via his GPS readings that he was either incapable or hesitant to reach top speed."

like i said, the club has detail we don't have
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Reintegrate what have said was flabbergasted in the development of Nathan the last 18 months.
Don’t know how many games that some have seen at Sandringham this year but Answerth , Seccull,
Cooke were consistently played in the centre square .
It’s done now , no point going over it anymore .

Said it privately to other friends who are also Stkilda members , that wouldn’t suprise Hawthorn
pick him up as they have the best fitness guy in the AFL.
 
I have wondered if he was a project that if worked would have been a bonus, but was also to help use up salary cap we needed used, without having to overpay other players to make the 95% ? Maybe we need those $ now? All guesswork of course. Sure as heck glad he made it out there though.
 

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