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Certified Legendary Thread Nathan Freeman Updates

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Have the club/freeman seemed the overseas treatment that was spoke of or is that for his next hammy?
 
I urge everybody to go easy on Nathan Freeman. He could be special , he did enough to get drafted high , so we must be patient , and positive. Even with the worst case scenerio , why should we single him out , whilst we have so many list cloggers that have been given far more time without any fan pressure. Guys like Spencer White a former good example. Last heard of playing reserves at Perth Demons , a club that is struggling !
 
DGontheQT said:
I urge everybody to go easy on Nathan Freeman. He could be special , he did enough to get drafted high , so we must be patient , and positive. Even with the worst case scenerio , why should we single him out , whilst we have so many list cloggers that have been given far more time without any fan pressure. Guys like Spencer White a former good example. Last heard of playing reserves at Perth Demons , a club that is struggling !
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I'd say we are all barracking hard for Freeman to come good, both for his own sake and ours. I doubt any (or very few) on here would be writing him off at present or regarding him as a list clogger. He's also costing us very little and I'm prepared to be very patient as we are tracking very nicely without him at present. For me, he would be the icing on the cake if he can get past all the hammy troubles, but we've got to continue building without him.

He is, however, the reason why I would be very wary about getting JOM to the club as I don't think we should be risking having two players who may not make it.
 
Diehard Saint said:
I'd say we are all barracking hard for Freeman to come good, both for his own sake and ours. I doubt any (or very few) on here would be writing him off at present or regarding him as a list clogger. He's also costing us very little and I'm prepared to be very patient as we are tracking very nicely without him at present. For me, he would be the icing on the cake if he can get past all the hammy troubles, but we've got to continue building without him.

He is, however, the reason why I would be very wary about getting JOM to the club as I don't think we should be risking having two players who may not make it.
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Markworth was on the list for four years without playing a game. Think we can cut Freeman some slack until at least bye time this time next year.
 

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joop said:
I think that article can put to bed all the crap we keep hearing of how 'mismanaged' Freeman was at Collingwood.
No way would the richest club in the country treat a top 10 draft pick with such contempt. If they'd made all the effort with Reid there is no reason they wouldn't with Freeman.
He's got shit hamstrings, and our medical department obviously got this one wrong and we should move on.
He's in his 3rd year and can't even play 2 3rds games a month apart without having a 'minor' setback.
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Righto, so you're basically saying:

* Freeman is a liar and a sook.
* this St Kilda admin are incompetent and dishonest.
* Collingwood manage all their players the same way, and they certainly don't peddle face-saving propaganda to story-hungry footy media.
* We should believe what the Herald Sun says because of the length of their articles.
* SACK THE BOARD!!!!!
 
austinnn said:
Righto, so you're basically saying:

* Freeman is a liar and a sook.
* this St Kilda admin are incompetent and dishonest.
* Collingwood manage all their players the same way, and they certainly don't peddle face-saving propaganda to story-hungry footy media.
* We should believe what the Herald Sun says because of the length of their articles.
* SACK THE BOARD!!!!!
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No I'm not, didn't say anything like that at all.
 
joop said:
I think that article can put to bed all the crap we keep hearing of how 'mismanaged' Freeman was at Collingwood.
No way would the richest club in the country treat a top 10 draft pick with such contempt. If they'd made all the effort with Reid there is no reason they wouldn't with Freeman.
He's got shit hamstrings, and our medical department obviously got this one wrong and we should move on.
He's in his 3rd year and can't even play 2 3rds games a month apart without having a 'minor' setback.
Click to expand...

In the words of a wise old dwarf (no, not the burnt one, the green one with pointy ears that lives on Dagobah): Causation, correlation does not mean.

Having the most money does not mean having the best medical team. More likely? Sure. But certainly not guaranteed to be the best. Even the most experienced health practitioners don't know everything, and what they don't know could be known by someone fresh off the blocks. Or there's the factor that many senior practitioners do not keep up to date with the ever changing medical field, so may be behind on recent findings (for example, I've known of several people recommending corticosteroids to tread tendinopathy, which is an absolute no based on the most recent findings). And don't forget about simple human error.


To provide an anecdote:
There was a senior physiotherapist in a prominent hospital that advised a student on placement to get a patient out of bed to mobilise them (the focal point of respiratory physiotherapy treatment) before leaving the room. The student noticed that the patient's leg which had been operated was looking better than the first day post-operation, however the non-operated leg was looking peculiar. The student called the senior physiotherapist back in, and raised his concerns. Further assessment was performed, and it was discovered that the patient had developed Deep Vein Thrombosis, with the thrombus running almost the entire length of the patient's deep saphenous vein (the longest vein in the body, running from your foot to the top of your thigh). If the student had done as he was instructed, then the thrombus would most likely have dislodged, with the resulting embolus almost certainly leading to the death of the patient.

The senior physiotherapist had been at that hospital for approximately 20 years. The student physiotherapist was not even qualified. Experience does not always mean everything.

By all means, you could be right, and you're not being illogical by believing what you have written. However, it would be naive to think that it is impossible that St Kilda's team did not happen to identify something that Collingwood's team did not. For all Collingwood knew, they were doing everything that they could, as they did with Reid. It may just be the case that they were doing everything for the wrong treatment.

Or, they could have been spot on and Freeman will be delisted without playing a senior game. It's impossible to assert either way with certainty.
 
Once again, I cannot recall any high performance manager having to front the members of a footy to club to answer why soft tissue injuries were mismanaged...
Except for the time when Bill Davoren fronted Collingwood members at the end of 2014.

So yes Joop, there is plenty of merit that an injury that only appeared once NF arrived at Collingwood was made worse due to rehabilitation decisions.



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Strahany said:
In the words of a wise old dwarf (no, not the burnt one, the green one with pointy ears that lives on Dagobah): Causation, correlation does not mean.

Having the most money does not mean having the best medical team. More likely? Sure. But certainly not guaranteed to be the best. Even the most experienced health practitioners don't know everything, and what they don't know could be known by someone fresh off the blocks. Or there's the factor that many senior practitioners do not keep up to date with the ever changing medical field, so may be behind on recent findings (for example, I've known of several people recommending corticosteroids to tread tendinopathy, which is an absolute no based on the most recent findings). And don't forget about simple human error.


To provide an anecdote:
There was a senior physiotherapist in a prominent hospital that advised a student on placement to get a patient out of bed to mobilise them (the focal point of respiratory physiotherapy treatment) before leaving the room. The student noticed that the patient's leg which had been operated was looking better than the first day post-operation, however the non-operated leg was looking peculiar. The student called the senior physiotherapist back in, and raised his concerns. Further assessment was performed, and it was discovered that the patient had developed Deep Vein Thrombosis, with the thrombus running almost the entire length of the patient's deep saphenous vein (the longest vein in the body, running from your foot to the top of your thigh). If the student had done as he was instructed, then the thrombus would most likely have dislodged, with the resulting embolus almost certainly leading to the death of the patient.

The senior physiotherapist had been at that hospital for approximately 20 years. The student physiotherapist was not even qualified. Experience does not always mean everything.

By all means, you could be right, and you're not being illogical by believing what you have written. However, it would be naive to think that it is impossible that St Kilda's team did not happen to identify something that Collingwood's team did not. For all Collingwood knew, they were doing everything that they could, as they did with Reid. It may just be the case that they were doing everything for the wrong treatment.

Or, they could have been spot on and Freeman will be delisted without playing a senior game. It's impossible to assert either way with certainty.
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It's definitely not impossible to think that, but at the same time it appears that the medical team have severely under estimated the nature of Freemans injury. This would be evident with them saying after the latest setback that what they thought they were doing was the right path, has not worked. They took the extremely cautious approach, he played a total of 4 quarters of development league football across 2 games over the course of 5 weeks. That is extremely cautious, yet he's still had 3 setbacks in his 7 months with us with the club now saying he won't be playing this year.
I want him to work out just as much as the next supporter, everyone can see he is exactly what we need going forward.
But at this point I'm struggling to see how the club came to a decision to trade a 2nd round pick for him. I don't see how anyone can say Collingwood mismanaged him when he's having the exact same problems with us.
 
BrianSpeaking said:
Let's get our heads out of the sand, if we take a decent sample size, ie the last three years, the bloke will not have an AFL career. This is purely based on facts, nothing else.

I really hope I'm wrong by 200 games.
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So who was the bright spark who said we should trade for him ?
 
Our 2nd round draft pick this year will end up being around pick 34 to 37, so it's not as if we paid a high draft pick for Freeman; quite the opposite. The only reason we got a "top ten pick" at such a ridiculously cheap price was because of the risk involved due to his injury. If it doesn't work out we have lost very little. If his hamstring comes good, he has the potential to be a star player.

So we either have a small loss or a very big win. The alternative was to play it safe, take no risks and keep the pick. Personally, I'm pleased that the club is being aggressive at the trade table.
 
RobbieMuir said:
Our 2nd round draft pick this year will end up being around pick 34 to 37, so it's not as if we paid a high draft pick for Freeman; quite the opposite. The only reason we got a "top ten pick" at such a ridiculously cheap price was because of the risk involved due to his injury. If it doesn't work out we have lost very little. If his hamstring comes good, he has the potential to be a star player.

So we either have a small loss or a very big win. The alternative was to play it safe, take no risks and keep the pick. Personally, I'm pleased that the club is being aggressive at the trade table.
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How did you come to the conclusion our pick will be 34-37?
If you're including academy players then they are void, we're talking about live picks. Eg: we traded pick 5 last year, due to mills being bid on parish was taken at pick 5, doesnt mean we would've got him.
We traded a pick around 25 for freeman, considering he hadn't played a game in 2 years due to the same injury re-occurring is hardly call it 'ridiculously cheap'.
 

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This morning they were saying the top forty of this draft is very good.
Jack Steven, Jimmy Webster, Jack Lonie, , Jack Newnes say hello.
Pretty positive there will be a good footballer available where our second pick would have been. Probably named Jack.
 
joop said:
How did you come to the conclusion our pick will be 34-37?
If you're including academy players then they are void, we're talking about live picks. Eg: we traded pick 5 last year, due to mills being bid on parish was taken at pick 5, doesnt mean we would've got him.
We traded a pick around 25 for freeman, considering he hadn't played a game in 2 years due to the same injury re-occurring is hardly call it 'ridiculously cheap'.
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When we did the same thing with Jessie Smith , it was much cheaper.
I'm a bit concerned we have "Bob the Builder" working in our medical department.
 
SaintsSeptember said:
When we did the same thing with Jessie Smith , it was much cheaper.
I'm a bit concerned we have "Bob the Builder" working in our medical department.
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Absolutely no co-relation at all.

Smith was already a crock with a bad ankle and Saints were his last gasp at fixing it. Halfway through the season pulled the pin.

Has anyone said that Freeman cant be a footballer? That his injuries are currently career ending?

As for a good player in the second round. Maybe, but also a good chance of being a bust.

Risk and return.
 
Joffaboy said:
Absolutely no co-relation at all.

Smith was already a crock with a bad ankle and Saints were his last gasp at fixing it. Halfway through the season pulled the pin.

Has anyone said that Freeman cant be a footballer? That his injuries are currently career ending?

As for a good player in the second round. Maybe, but also a good chance of being a bust.

Risk and return.
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Seems to be the opinion of plenty on this thread.
 
What was originally our second pick will net about the 35th best eighteen year old in the land. That is pick 35 in the 2016 draft. I don't know where you got 'pick 25' from. We have swapped (approximately) the 35th best player for Freeman. I call that a cheap deal. All clubs have the option of bidding on Academy players and F/S, and whilst a club may not win that particular bid, those players are not void, they are all in the draft.
 
SaintsSeptember said:
Seems to be the opinion of plenty on this thread.
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Are they doctors?

May well be correct, or hopelessly wrong. We don't know.

And that is the point, nobody here knows. The only opinion I have read about a career ending injury has been Rors on JOM.

Give you three with hamstring issues, Rioli, Burgoyne, Ried. All out for significant time, all now playing AFL.

Why wont you cut Freeman some slack? He is at the Saints for three years, and halfway through the first have had some setback, none of which has been major like the initial injury.

Until Freeman is officially ruled out of football, I will give him a go, just like all Saints players. Seems like some want him to fail so they can be triumphant about the trade.
Considering I want to see the Saints win, I want nothing more than a fit Freeman running about in the seniors.

Do you, or is your opinion being justified more important?
 

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RobbieMuir said:
What was originally our second pick will net about the 35th best eighteen year old in the land. That is pick 35 in the 2016 draft. I don't know where you got 'pick 25' from. We have swapped (approximately) the 35th best player for Freeman. I call that a cheap deal. All clubs have the option of bidding on Academy players and F/S, and whilst a club may not win that particular bid, those players are not void, they are all in the draft.
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:rolleyes:
 
Joffaboy said:
Are they doctors?

May well be correct, or hopelessly wrong. We don't know.

And that is the point, nobody here knows. The only opinion I have read about a career ending injury has been Rors on JOM.

Give you three with hamstring issues, Rioli, Burgoyne, Ried. All out for significant time, all now playing AFL.

Why wont you cut Freeman some slack? He is at the Saints for three years, and halfway through the first have had some setback, none of which has been major like the initial injury.

Until Freeman is officially ruled out of football, I will give him a go, just like all Saints players. Seems like some want him to fail so they can be triumphant about the trade.
Considering I want to see the Saints win, I want nothing more than a fit Freeman running about in the seniors.

Do you, or is your opinion being justified more important?
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:rolleyes:

I see posts by the likes of BS, who does have some sort of connection with the club. He's gone from an outlook that was initially positive to one that suggests he's done.

I'd be very disappointed if he doesn't still have a good outlook, because if he is close to being a write off already, our medical staff have made a very bad call.
Like Brian I hope he's very wrong .
 
Joffaboy said:
Are they doctors?

May well be correct, or hopelessly wrong. We don't know.

And that is the point, nobody here knows. The only opinion I have read about a career ending injury has been Rors on JOM.

Give you three with hamstring issues, Rioli, Burgoyne, Ried. All out for significant time, all now playing AFL.

Why wont you cut Freeman some slack? He is at the Saints for three years, and halfway through the first have had some setback, none of which has been major like the initial injury.

Until Freeman is officially ruled out of football, I will give him a go, just like all Saints players. Seems like some want him to fail so they can be triumphant about the trade.
Considering I want to see the Saints win, I want nothing more than a fit Freeman running about in the seniors.

Do you, or is your opinion being justified more important?
Click to expand...
JOM will be very interesting l've read a lot about his injury (ruptured patella tendon) and it's seems very few professional sportsmen from around the world come back from it very successfully. They seem to be plagued by knee and hamstring issues for the rest of their careers. Very unfortunate l hope l'm wrong regardless of where he ends up.
 
joop said:
I think that article can put to bed all the crap we keep hearing of how 'mismanaged' Freeman was at Collingwood.
No way would the richest club in the country treat a top 10 draft pick with such contempt. If they'd made all the effort with Reid there is no reason they wouldn't with Freeman.
He's got shit hamstrings, and our medical department obviously got this one wrong and we should move on.
He's in his 3rd year and can't even play 2 3rds games a month apart without having a 'minor' setback.
Click to expand...

Nailed it. Lets hope its a lesson learned, e.g. no JOM.
 
saintbill said:
Nailed it. Lets hope its a lesson learned, e.g. no JOM.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't touch JOM with a bargepole if l was a rival club. I have grave doubts he'll play another 30 games.
God l hope l'm wrong but l've read up extensively and all evidence points in that direction unfortunately.
 

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