Player Watch Nathan Freeman

[jackcass]

Exactly. Those guys took one year to show something, Freeman hasnt shown nothing at all to suggest he is going to be any good regardless of the hammy in 2014. He needs to start playing good VFL footy at least.

Those players were all available in to play in their first year. And at a minimum he'd shown enough to earn a NAB game in his first season prior to the hammy.

 

[TradeDraft]

That's 30 months on the list... If he doesn't start playing any sort of decent footy in the next couple of months he's going to be a bust.

Jeez Someone would be Impatient. Then I guess you might as well De-List at least Half the List then

 

[TradeDraft]

He was going to be our pick with all the talk until late that Melbourne we're going to take Freeman

Yep - That was the Talk to right until the last day or 2.

Some even said we might of Taken Salem at 6 even. How much Hine was Reported to like him

 

[bradrowe#32]

This thread is the height of ridiculousness. Absolutely embarrassing.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

This thread is the height of ridiculousness. Absolutely embarrassing.

The goody 2 shoes members of this forum, of which there are a considerable number, would have us discussing only positive aspects of the team's performance. Until I am convinced otherwise, I have doubts about Freeman as a genuine top 20 pick, and believe a legitimate case can be made for threads of this nature. Why some posters take such offence to discussion of a player's possible deficiencies is beyond my understanding. As supporters we are entitled to question the worth of draft picks, and we should feel free to do so without fear of moral censure from fellow supporters. Thank God for the That'sGolds of the forum who liven the place up a bit with their fearless thoughts and opinions.

 

[Ketchup]

The goody 2 shoes members of this forum, of which there are a considerable number, would have us discussing only positive aspects of the team's performance. Until I am convinced otherwise, I have doubts about Freeman as a genuine top 20 pick, and believe a legitimate case can be made for threads of this nature. Why some posters take such offence to discussion of a player's possible deficiencies is beyond my understanding. As supporters we are entitled to question the worth of draft picks, and we should feel free to do so without fear of moral censure from fellow supporters. Thank God for the That'sGolds of the forum who liven the place up a bit with their fearless thoughts and opinions.

Just out of curiosity. Where is the matt scharenberg when will he debut thread? Pick 6 and yet to play a game after having 18 months on our list.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Just out of curiosity. Where is the matt scharenberg when will he debut thread? Pick 6 and yet to play a game after having 18 months on our list.

Matt Scharenberg was already an acknowledged complete player when he was drafted. Freeman had question marks hanging over his ability to perform at AFL level. Freeman has done a complete pre-season this year and was supposedly ready to strut his stuff, whereas Scharenberg has only played a couple of VFL games. Even so, VFL observers claim that Scharenberg looked impressive last week in only his second game.

Freeman has so far displayed little evidence that he is going to be a quality AFL player. We also know that Scharenberg is on track to play AFL in the second half of the season. Freeman seems unlikely to be ready until next year. There are possibly legitimate excuses for his ordinary form to date and a thread of this nature gives people an opportunity to explain those reasons on his behalf.

 

[Go Pies!!!!!]

Soon as I saw the title of the thread then who started it didn't bother reading further

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Soon as I saw the title of the thread then who started didn't bother reading further

But you have read further! How else would you be in a position to comment?

 

[Go Pies!!!!!]

But you have read further! How else would you be in a position to comment?

My comment is what it is cant be bothered reading anything started by that's gold

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

My comment is what it is cant be bothered reading anything started by that's gold

Fair enough.

 

[bradrowe#32]

The goody 2 shoes members of this forum, of which there are a considerable number, would have us discussing only positive aspects of the team's performance. Until I am convinced otherwise, I have doubts about Freeman as a genuine top 20 pick, and believe a legitimate case can be made for threads of this nature. Why some posters take such offence to discussion of a player's possible deficiencies is beyond my understanding. As supporters we are entitled to question the worth of draft picks, and we should feel free to do so without fear of moral censure from fellow supporters. Thank God for the That'sGolds of the forum who liven the place up a bit with their fearless thoughts and opinions.

I've found the conversations on here quite robust and the majority of posters aren't afraid to critise players, the coach, the admin etc. Any post-game thread after we've lost shows that posters on here not afraid to critise players or tactics. As with any supporter base, there will always be a select few that always see the positive and rarely the negative, but over the years I've been on here, I think we're pretty level-headed.

I think it's fine to critise any player on the list, including Freeman. I just find it absolutely ridiculous to bag Freeman based on a couple of poor VFL matches when he missed his entire first season with injury.

While you can still develop an injured player with footage sessions and individual tutelage, you really need to get the player onto the park and coach him on game day and during the week.

Freeman might fail, but how about we actually give him a chance?

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I've found the conversations on here quite robust and the majority of posters aren't afraid to critise players, the coach, the admin etc. Any post-game thread after we've lost shows that posters on here not afraid to critise players or tactics. As with any supporter base, there will always be a select few that always see the positive and rarely the negative, but over the years I've been on here, I think we're pretty level-headed.

I think it's fine to critise any player on the list, including Freeman. I just find it absolutely ridiculous to bag Freeman based on a couple of poor VFL matches when he missed his entire first season with injury.

While you can still develop an injured player with footage sessions and individual tutelage, you really need to get the player onto the park and coach him on game day and during the week.

Freeman might fail, but how about we actually give him a chance?

I guess we disagree about the purpose of the thread. Posters have had ample opportunity to defend Freeman and explain his seeming lack of progress. The reason that Freeman is more liable to be questioned than other draftees is that there were doubts about his AFL credentials before he was injured. He is a top 10 pick. We are entitled to ask whether we are getting value for money.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

The goody 2 shoes members of this forum, of which there are a considerable number, would have us discussing only positive aspects of the team's performance. Until I am convinced otherwise, I have doubts about Freeman as a genuine top 20 pick, and believe a legitimate case can be made for threads of this nature. Why some posters take such offence to discussion of a player's possible deficiencies is beyond my understanding. As supporters we are entitled to question the worth of draft picks, and we should feel free to do so without fear of moral censure from fellow supporters. Thank God for the That'sGolds of the forum who liven the place up a bit with their fearless thoughts and opinions.

The issue I have with some posters is when they always stick to one side of the coin. We live in the real world, nothing is ever going to be completely good, nor is it ever going to be completely bad... everything is dynamic and will constantly be changing. A big part of being a mature human being is that you can think in complexities, not just black and white (pardon the pun)... I am really sick of this board being full of "OMG We are the Greatest!" threads after a win, or "Sack Bucks" threads after a loss - both sides of that are just as annoying as each other, and both sides need to find a balance... and I'm sorry if I, like many others apparently, get the impression that TG (as an example) always only ever seems to care about pointing out the negatives.

I guess we disagree about the purpose of the thread. Posters have had ample opportunity to defend Freeman and explain his seeming lack of progress. The reason that Freeman is more liable to be questioned than other draftees is that there were doubts about his AFL credentials before he was injured. He is a top 10 pick. We are entitled to ask whether we are getting value for money.

Clearly we are entitled to have an opinion, and to question the club on personnel decisions... but surely we need to actually see how Freeman develops before making our mind up.
Less than 18 months into an AFL career, where 12 months was lost through injury, might just be a little bit early to be gauging whether we are getting value... the guy has only played 3 games of VFL footy for ****s sake, show a bit of patience.

 

[Gone Critical]

I think we are going way too early in making an assessment re Freeman and Scharenberg. They both should be seen as damaged goods to some degree and according given some reassessment re their potential and especially about what you can expect from them in 2015.

Using the Freeman example , despite what TGG says about his credentials pre injury, we should expect coming I to the 2014 season he was correctly rated as a highly rated draft pick from his year. That all changed once he sustained a severe injury in the pre season. Any player who misses a year of footy with a severe leg injury is given time to regain their pre injury standing in the game. Some do , some do quickly and some never do. Almost always they don't return initially at the same level they left the game at. In those instances we are talking of an already developed AFL player who has done their apprenticeship.

In Freeman's case he not only lost a year out of the game but he also lost what is arguably the most important development year in his career. As such we should reason he (and Shaz) have fallen from the level they were at compared to their peers from their draft year. In my opinion not only are they now well behind the Kelly's, Billings, Bonts , Salems etc in development they have also receded from the players they were pre injury, as almost all players with long term leg injuries do at least temporarily. So they may not be expected to perform initially as well as say the top 10 draft picks from the most recent draft at least in the short term.

So for me there is no real concern about how the play in the early parts of 2015. Despite the expectations generated by positive early pre season reports I never saw Freeman as someone likely to debut early in 2015. He just has lost too much footy and needs to be given time to recover.

The big question, and one that can never really be answered, is how much of the potential players that Freeman and Scharenberg could have become has been lost by their long term leg injuries?

 

[THATSGOLD]

Yep - That was the Talk to right until the last day or 2.

Some even said we might of Taken Salem at 6 even. How much Hine was Reported to like him

We didn't though! The draft looks like a strong one I just hope Freeman was the right choice. So far I'm not convinced.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Matt Scharenberg was already an acknowledged complete player when he was drafted. Freeman had question marks hanging over his ability to perform at AFL level. Freeman has done a complete pre-season this year and was supposedly ready to strut his stuff, whereas Scharenberg has only played a couple of VFL games. Even so, VFL observers claim that Scharenberg looked impressive last week in only his second game.

Freeman has so far displayed little evidence that he is going to be a quality AFL player. We also know that Scharenberg is on track to play AFL in the second half of the season. Freeman seems unlikely to be ready until next year. There are possibly legitimate excuses for his ordinary form to date and a thread of this nature gives people an opportunity to explain those reasons on his behalf.

Exactly, Freeman had a whole pre season of running at high intensity, Scharenberg has been in rehab in that time. Freeman was out of rehab by Sept last year.

 

[ottoman]

LOL. A guy misses a year of football due to injury and doesn't start his comeback to football with best on ground performances from day one and we should be looking at delisting. Even by your standards TG this thread is a pile of dog shite.
By this logic Oxley Ramsey JDG Moore Marsh PK Broomhead and almost every player to have ever played football should have been delisted
What tripe. I can understand someone who has a passing interest in football making such ignorant statements but when it comes from people who obviously follow football closely it beggers belief.

 

[JB1975]

Why does everyone feel the need to cut sick at thatsgold whenever he voices an opinion? It's pretty unnecessary.

I don't agree with much he says either but there's nothing wrong with just stating an argument without swearing and belittling him.[/QUOTE

The goody 2 shoes members of this forum, of which there are a considerable number, would have us discussing only positive aspects of the team's performance. Until I am convinced otherwise, I have doubts about Freeman as a genuine top 20 pick, and believe a legitimate case can be made for threads of this nature. Why some posters take such offence to discussion of a player's possible deficiencies is beyond my understanding. As supporters we are entitled to question the worth of draft picks, and we should feel free to do so without fear of moral censure from fellow supporters. Thank God for the That'sGolds of the forum who liven the place up a bit with their fearless thoughts and opinions.

I don't think that there's any need to characterise 'a considerable number' of us as blithely optimistic cheerleaders for anyone wearing a Collingwood jumper. For myself, I don't have a problem with posters questioning the attributes of players, as players or as draft picks, and I've done it myself. And then someone has then come along to point out that the underperformance has a context, and I've happily taken it on board in making further assessment. Or at other times I've recalled my opposition to some of our players, such as Leon Davis, and I remember that a player's journey to find their place in the footy universe can be a long and painful one, but ultimately meaningful.

If there is a frustration with TG and this thread, then perhaps it's because his views are disturbingly free of context. In this and other threads, the trials of Freeman and the seriousness of not being able to play any footy in the first year seem lost on him. Even those who are sceptical about Freeman's ultimate destination (i.e. whether he was worth a top 10 pick) will acknowledge that it is unfair to ask the bigger questions of Freeman at the moment, that the kid is still in the process of getting his body right, and trying to work into the rhythms of the game. You yourself, very reasonably, have pointed out that Freeman's precise brand of football remains a bit of an unknown. True enough. We can all acknowledge the uncertainties, and few of us are busily hailing the kid as the next Danger. But while most of us are reserving judgment and just hoping for the best, TG offers views which are happily detached from reason, and which (by design or otherwise) almost condemn an untried kid to footy oblivion.

 

[Scodog10]

Well he was being talked up as the next Dangerfield ready to explode. What's happened since then.

More fool anyone who believed that.

I have no issue with the thread whatsoever my general take though is that these types of outside players are usually a slow burn. Seedsman 5 years in and beginning to show what he can really do, Jetta drafted at 21 and didn't start to tear it up until he was 23, Matt White on Richmond's list for 8 years before he got to Port and did anything, Isaac Smith drafted at 21 and into his second year before he had a meaningful impact, Boekhorst drafted at 21 doing little ATM, Johannisen 4 years in and just starting to show what he can do and Hanley was 25 entering into his 6th season before he really got it.

Even the one's that get it straight off the bat have serious ups and downs in Hill, Pearce and Wells. I'm not overly concerned with his progression because I assume the club picked him with full knowledge that he won't be it and a bit for some time yet, but if/ when it does click for him he could be a very important piece in the puzzle for us. Especially when you look at how Geelong picked us apart on Friday we need more linebreakers in the line up so lets cool our jets on him and remember that he isn't JDG and likely won't be busting down the door in the short term.

FWIW the club really didn't help themselves with the unwarranted media that Freeman received over pre-season it whipped many supporters into a frenzy over Freeman expecting him to come out and be a best 22 player right from the get go. Yeah it's exciting to hear he was doing well in the running, but its just that running and he has a long way to go with the stuff that really matters.

 

[NT.Thunder]

Yeah there's still plenty of time to persevere with both Freeman and Scharenberg. Potential is the key word here with both, yes they may fail but I would rather they fail here than see them win a best and fairest in 5 years time at Adelaide because we weren't patient enough to support their development.

It's no secret that a % of first round draft picks won't make it, I can live with that. I just can't live with moving guys on without turning each and every stone to tap into that potential.

I'm patient enough to wait.

 

[Scodog10]

The big question, and one that can never really be answered, is how much of the potential players that Freeman and Scharenberg could have become has been lost by their long term leg injuries?

Sorry GC I thought it would be best to just quote this section as it was the area I wanted to address in particular. I'm one that also shares your concerns in this area in terms of guys suffering early injuries robbing them of some potential.

Scharenberg is the one I wanted to touch on specifically. It's early days, but from all reports he hasn't missed a beat on return and the injuries have provided him with a resolve that usually isn't evident in 19 yo's. If he can continue through uninjured (touch wood) that resolve may enable him to overcome any early development lost from those injuries.

 

[TheWing121]

I wont judge any draft pick until about 5 years into his career. All draft picks have potential some are ready made and some aren't. I think allot of the posters on this board assumed because he was built like a football player he would be ready straight away. Look at a player like Daniel Rich played from day 1 at a decent standard but wont get allot better - he will still be a best 15 player but will never be in their number 1 or 2.
He is very unlucky with injury last year that means he will have to wait longer to debut. Last year he would have come in early but now he is competing against De Goey and other young players especially now that we are playing well

 

[lethalburns]

I have watched Freeman really closely and in my opinion his lack of development has nothing to do with his hamstring. He doesn't have footy smarts -everything he does it based on instinct and unfortunately his instincts are not great. Every time I've seen him play he runs around like a headless chook, positions himself poorly and doesn't use his solid frame anywhere near enough.

If the kid is smart maybe he will learn it but right now he comes across like a lost fairy on the football field.

I also think Scharenberg is a massive chance to return to SA unfortunately. Will either be part of Dangerfield trade or we will lose him for nothing in 2 years.

In brighter news I think Hine got us a gem in Degoey. Can't win them all.

 

[DaVe86]

Freeman will take longer than others.

Obviously the fact he missed a whole year of footy has set him back, but we knew there were knocks on his footy smarts when we recruited him.

He just needs to keep playing at VFL level and keep working on his game. It might take him a full year at this level. It might take 2-3.

He was recruited on potential. He is quicker than most, has the 2nd best endurance on our list, has an AFL ready build and is hard at it.

The issue is he just doesnt put himself in the right spots or utilise his ability enough.

It will click for him. I dont know if he will be the next dangerfield, but he could be a Matt White or Luke Shuey.

Whilst i understand the criticism that his problem is footy smarts, i also didnt expect him to dominate after missing an entire year of footy In his debut season.