Opinion Nathan Van Berlo: Midfield Coach

hey shorty

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1)he was co-midfield coach of a flag winning team
2)The midfield he coached was full of very experienced players with very few young kids to mentor (which is the situation we're in) and had been good for years before he came along
3)the midfield declined significantly once his co-coach left
4)He hasn't been out of the AFC system long at all
5)He has played besides some of our current players, bringing his ability to be impartial into question
6)As a player he was gifted games towards the back end of his career, games his form did NOT justify; so he is part of that toxic culture.

So I think a better question is: why are you content with this appointment?
The last 2 are patently untrue. He called time on his career when the club wanted to keep him.

You dismiss his role at the Eagles because it suits your narrative, his co-midfield coach was Mitchell who is now back working under Clarkson..... Pretty good I'd say.

He is a very good get for a group needing to learn what it takes to get the most from yourself, and given he's likely to cost slightly less than other alternatives it will allow us to beef up other areas.

Only the truly pessimistic would take your view on this
 

Vhaluus

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The last 2 are patently untrue. He called time on his career when the club wanted to keep him.

You dismiss his role at the Eagles because it suits your narrative, his co-midfield coach was Mitchell who is now back working under Clarkson..... Pretty good I'd say.

He is a very good get for a group needing to learn what it takes to get the most from yourself, and given he's likely to cost slightly less than other alternatives it will allow us to beef up other areas.

Only the truly pessimistic would take your view on this

Oh I agree that Mitchell looks good, but that's the point. That is WHY I dismiss VBs influence on Eagles.

Let's look at this shall we
Coaches: Mitchell, VB -> result: good midfield performance, premiership
coaches: only VB -> result: poor midfield performance from largely the same playing group

Also I would have thought this club, or at least its supporters, would have learned better than to go with the cheaper option. Cheaper option got us Campo as senior assistant. Cheaper option got us Ben Hart is an assistant.
 

hey shorty

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Oh I agree that Mitchell looks good, but that's the point. That is WHY I dismiss VBs influence on Eagles.

Let's look at this shall we
Coaches: Mitchell, VB -> result: good midfield performance, premiership
coaches: only VB -> result: poor midfield performance from largely the same playing group

Also I would have thought this club, or at least its supporters, would have learned better than to go with the cheaper option. Cheaper option got us Campo as senior assistant. Cheaper option got us Ben Hart is an assistant.
Largely the same playing group with twice the injuries and COVID. Their midfield is still very good.

I'm very comfortable with this appointment
 

Vhaluus

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Largely the same playing group with twice the injuries and COVID. Their midfield is still very good.

I'm very comfortable with this appointment

Yeah their midfield IS very good when you look at the talent, which makes the under performance even more stark.

To quote from the eagles own board


Our midfield has clearly gone downhill since Mitchell has gone

It seems Van Berlo is a downgrade on Mitchell.
 

hey shorty

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Yeah their midfield IS very good when you look at the talent, which makes the under performance even more stark.

To quote from the eagles own board

Yeo has been out for a long time, Shuey has missed a lot of footy as has Redden.

3 key cogs in a midfield not there.
 

Vhaluus

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Yeo has been out for a long time, Shuey has missed a lot of footy as has Redden.

3 key cogs in a midfield not there.

Yeo played 23 games in 2019

Redden played 23 games in 2019

Shuey played 24 games in 2019
 

kulak

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Coaches: Mitchell, VB -> result: good midfield performance, premiership
In 2018 their midfield wasn’t great in the minor round. Then fantastic in the finals. Then back to average for 2019 minor round. If I recall the stats in that finals series a big outlier and otherwise fairly similar across the last few years.
 

Vhaluus

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In 2018 their midfield wasn’t great in the minor round. Then fantastic in the finals. Then back to average for 2019 minor round. If I recall the stats in that finals series a big outlier and otherwise fairly similar across the last few years.

...So your argument in favor of VB is that their midfield has been mediocre his entire time there?
 
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The last 2 are patently untrue. He called time on his career when the club wanted to keep him.

You dismiss his role at the Eagles because it suits your narrative, his co-midfield coach was Mitchell who is now back working under Clarkson..... Pretty good I'd say.

He is a very good get for a group needing to learn what it takes to get the most from yourself, and given he's likely to cost slightly less than other alternatives it will allow us to beef up other areas.

Only the truly pessimistic would take your view on this
Sam Mitchell has been midfield coach at the Hawks for the last 2 years....even the Crows midfield has performed better under Mick Godden than the Hawks midfield under Mitchell. Maybe Mitchell isn't the golden boy of midfield coaches?

2020 Crows 16th in clearances, Hawks 17th


2019 Crows 10th in clearances, Hawks 17th

 

Vhaluus

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Sam Mitchell has been midfield coach at the Hawks for the last 2 years....even the Crows midfield has performed better under Mick Godden than the Hawks midfield under Mitchell. Maybe Mitchell isn't the golden boy of midfield coaches?

2020 Crows 16th in clearances, Hawks 17th


2019 Crows 10th in clearances, Hawks 17th


Because clearances are the only thing that define a midfield?

Also the quality of the clearances doesn't matter at all right?
 
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Because clearances are the only thing that define a midfield?

Also the quality of the clearances doesn't matter at all right?
Yeah, Hawthorn have been going great guns the last 2 years...11 -11 W-L in 2019 and 5 - 12 W-L in 2020.
 

Vhaluus

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Yeah, Hawthorn have been going great guns the last 2 years...11 -11 W-L in 2019 and 5 - 12 W-L in 2020.

Please point out where in my post I said they'd been going well over the past two years?

Nice strawman, same old bs from you.
 
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Please point out where in my post I said they'd been going well over the past two years?

Nice strawman, same old bs from you.
LOL when it comes to negative bullshit you're way out ahead of the pack on this board...
 

Vhaluus

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LOL when it comes to negative bullshit you're way out ahead of the pack on this board...

So.. you admit I didn't in fact say the Hawks had been going well and your entire last post was irrelevant?

So shall we actually get back to discussing the topic at hand and do an ACTUAL well rounded review of how the Hawks midfield performed, factoring in level of talent that a coach has to work with?

Or are you sticking with the lots of clearances = good midfield argument?

Because if you're sticking with that argument I have some questions

in no particular order my questions are:

1)Tigers?
2)Carlton?
3)Suns?
 

Vhaluus

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Here we have Mutineer being Mutineer, can't hack an argument so he resorts to laugh emotes.

It's a pity though, I was really looking foward to him justifying how the Tigers won a premiership with apparently the worst midfield in the competition
 

hey shorty

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Here we have Mutineer being Mutineer, can't hack an argument so he resorts to laugh emotes.

It's a pity though, I was really looking foward to him justifying how the Tigers won a premiership with apparently the worst midfield in the competition
So NVB being a part of a premiership winning midfield means little ??
 

Vhaluus

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So NVB being a part of a premiership winning midfield means little ??

I mean it's better than if he'd coached a completely s**t house midfield I suppose. But it's not enough proof of his abilities for me to think he justifies thinking he was recruited based on ability rather than connection.

I hope I'm wrong. I hope he gets our midfield running beautifully. I'm just skeptical based on the information I have at hand.
 

hey shorty

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I mean it's better than if he'd coached a completely sh*t house midfield I suppose. But it's not enough proof of his abilities for me to think he justifies thinking he was recruited based on ability rather than connection.

I hope I'm wrong. I hope he gets our midfield running beautifully. I'm just skeptical based on the information I have at hand.
I think he's been picked due to both personally
 

hey shorty

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Oh I believe the people he has connections to THINK he has quality.

But those same people picked Burton because of his 'quality' they deemed to him to have.
Difference being Burton was at a club who finished last.

VB at one that finished first. I think you're trying too hard to find a reason not to like this decision, and it's not healthy
 

dylan123

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Please point out where in my post I said they'd been going well over the past two years?

Nice strawman, same old bs from you.
You basically suggested that WCE midfield with Mitchell + NVB was good because they won the grand final, Mitchell left and they turned to s**t = NVB no good.

So using that kind of logic, surely you can put together why Hawthorn was brought up.
 

Vhaluus

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You basically suggested that WCE midfield with Mitchell + NVB was good because they won the grand final, Mitchell left and they turned to sh*t = NVB no good.

So using that kind of logic, surely you can put together why Hawthorn was brought up.

Try actually reading the rest of the conversation champ
 

Vhaluus

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Difference being Burton was at a club who finished last.

VB at one that finished first. I think you're trying too hard to find a reason not to like this decision, and it's not healthy

So during 2017 if another club recruited Burton away from us they'd have done really well?

correlation does not equal causation.
 

hey shorty

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So during 2017 if another club recruited Burton away from us they'd have done really well?

correlation does not equal causation.
But they didn't did they, clubs knew better.

Except ours
 
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