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Maggie5 said:
And yet another opinion on the NBN:

http://www.news.com.au/technology/t...e/news-story/d3cf2b9e65d5ee0b7d442e76d3afbc7b

"In a rare public appearance at the University of Melbourne, founding NBN CEO Mike Quigley laid out a detailed case for installing a faster, fibre-to-the-home network in Australia, and slammed the Turnbull Government’s plans to use technologies including copper and pay-TV cable, saying Australia would suffer the “consequences of those decisions for years to come in higher costs and poorer performance”.

“To spend billions of dollars to build a major piece of national infrastructure that just about meets demand today but doesn’t allow for any significant growth in that demand over the next 10 or 20 years is incredibly shortsighted,” he said.

"While admitting the original NBN plans had been delayed by 12 months due to lengthy negotiations with Telstra and the discovery of asbestos in network pits, he said the FTTH network would have been cheaper to roll out, at $45 billion, and would have put Australia in a better position internationally."

Simon Hackett neglected to discuss the last point.
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Telstra is at the centre of the entire story. The fact Howard sold them off without keeping the government-built infrastructure separate has given them far too much power. The Labor NBN was designed to rectify this and so Telstra deliberately caused delays. The Liberals rewarded them for this by bringing them back into the fold and now they have too much power again.

Such a ****-up. And all done for politics and protecting the big end of town.
 
Maggie5 said:
View attachment 261480
New NBN promo.
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I can't believe how The Liberals talking point on this is to say Labor connected X amount in their time, and Liberals are doing that amount per month, as if people aren't smart enough to work out that Labor set the whole thing up and the Liberals therefore could just continue the progress.

It's like how they keep saying 'we're giving more money than ever to health/education' as if people don't understand that the economy grows and so does inflation so the numbers will often even go up when a Govt applies restrictions.

It's like how they say the average taxable income of negative gearers is $80,000 when they know full well that is only the number after people have tax minimised their taxable income via negative gearing and is much lower than it would've been (especially as 130,000 people negatively gear their income down to zero).

Malcolm was meant to explain things clearly and maturely...
 

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http://www.news.com.au/technology/o...n/news-story/fdd8280ff00b22fcf961b1f6c70af3f6
“You see every network is under stress and that comes back to the fact that most incumbents in the last 20 years have under invested. They keep on coming with their copper network, they’re upgrading from ADSL to VDSL to fibre to the node but basically maintaining the old copper network,” he lamented.

Does anyone think that this current government will change rollout?
 
yibbida said:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/28/nbn_hfc_scaled_down_to_stave_off_financial_disaster/

What an absolute cluster**** the Fiberals have turned Fraudband into.
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If they had actually run new cable and connected those areas up to HFC they wouldn't have been able to come close to 25Mbps on it (or HFC overall with everybody connected to it and using it at the same time) and would have cost them more than just doing FTTN for no better result.

Funnily enough this is actually an embarrassment saving exercise. I feel a small amount of progress has finally been made by the Turnbull stooges, they have basically admitted that the HFC fill-in idea is unworkable. Now if they'd just realise connecting everyone up to FTTN was also a horrible idea and switched back to the FTTP model we might get somewhere and they just might be able to salvage their reputations enough to be hireable again in their industry instead of a laughing stock.
 
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Keep saying this over and over, would have been better to take longer to roll out the whole country but do it right and future proofed.

of course some EGOs had to have their name all over it, and now the biggest ego is chasing people with NAZI-like zeal to cover up the truth.

Just allow people who canto build stuff you pollies. Nobody thinks you alone made it happen so STFU and stick your shiny shovels up your collective arses
 
Pessimistic said:
But you don't want to do it at all?
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Only where there is market failure. I can see why it's popular ie faster downloads but that doesn't make it a great or even a half decent investment. There are countless better ways to spend money (or save it, cut taxes).

There is no economic case for this just plenty of self interest dressed up as something else.
 

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medusala said:
Only where there is market failure. I can see why it's popular ie faster downloads but that doesn't make it a great or even a half decent investment. There are countless better ways to spend money (or save it, cut taxes).

There is no economic case for this just plenty of self interest dressed up as something else.
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:rolleyes:

(There really ought to be a bot for this)
 
medusala said:
Only where there is market failure. I can see why it's popular ie faster downloads but that doesn't make it a great or even a half decent investment. There are countless better ways to spend money (or save it, cut taxes).

There is no economic case for this just plenty of self interest dressed up as something else.
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How dumb.
There isn't a market for broadband in the bush. At least not a market that could provide a return to someone willing to invest. That's why there is a need for govt intervention.
There is an economic case for intervention because rural areas need this kind of technology to survive and prosper.

You are showing your economic illiteracy.
 
medusala said:
lol. You obviously missed this

"only where there is market failure."
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the fact that right across the country there our internet services are well behind the rest of the world show there was a total market failure for decades. it was brought on by poor governing on sale of telstra, but the failure was still the fault of the market.
 
medusala said:
lol. You obviously missed this

"only where there is market failure."
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There is no market failure in providing broadband to the bush. The market/ private providers are more than happy to provide broadband to remote areas if these users are willing to pay for this service.
 
Elroo said:
There is no market failure in providing broadband to the bush. The market/ private providers are more than happy to provide broadband to remote areas if these users are willing to pay for this service.
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Australians pay the highest prices for internet in the world. The two largest ISP's in the country Telstra and Optus are ranked 1 and 2 for price. the issue is purely that monopolies and duopolies are bad for investment, bad for development of new technologies and bad for competition.

there is a lack of investment because companies were not under any pressure to provide better services. this is why australian ISP's also receive some of the highest user complaints in the world, these companies are extremely poorly run from a customer perspective, on a number of issue.
 
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...c/news-story/032d3953c0490a4a64828511a052b895

The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission has put a spanner in the works for Telstra and NBN Co’s job of building the hybrid-fibre coaxial (HFC) portion of the National Broadband Network (NBN).

According to the competition watchdog, Telstra stands to gain a “head start” over its rivals under the $1.6 billion agreement it has signed with NBN Co to help roll out and upgrade its HFC network.

While acknowledging that Telstra’s involvement in the process will help NBN Co roll out the network faster, the ACCC said the “potential competition implications” couldn’t be overlooked.

The regulator is also unconvinced by the measures proposed by NBN Co and Telstra to mitigate the risks of the incumbent telco getting an unfair advantage, including a guarantee to make NBN HFC connections available to all service providers simultaneously, making sure Telstra follows NBN Co’s design directives and the telco providing a “white label” activation and repair services to NBN Co.

“The ACCC’s view is that the agreements could still pose a significant risk of distorting or otherwise lessening competition in the supply of broadband services unless all NBN access seekers are equally able to plan the commencement of their services over the NBN, and unless Telstra carries out the activation and assurance work for NBN Co in a way that does not disadvantage other NBN access seekers,” the ACCC said in its report.

Not sure taxpayers will ever know the truth about the Libs NBN,
 
Worth a read - the NBN is a dud under both the original and Turnbull plans

I was wrong on NBN: It’s a turkey

Unhappily, Australia’s national broadband network is a white elephant and, to mix metaphors, an albatross around the nation’s neck. I say this by way of mea culpa: your correspondent was an enthusiastic supporter of it in the early days. I thought the fibre-to-the-home plan was a piece of courageous and visionary policymaking all too rare in Australia, and booed what I thought was the Coalition’s penny-pinching, politically motivated decision to cut it back to fibre-to-the-node.

It’s now clear that my colleague Stephen Bartholomeusz was right all along: the thing is a dud, a donkey, a pasty pachyderm, and it would have been much worse if the original FTTH plan had gone ahead. Bevan Slattery, a serial builder of fibre networks (PIPE Networks, which he sold to TPG Telecom, and now Superloop) threw a metaphorical glass of water in my face recently, when he said the NBN was “like watching a car crash in slow motion”. “It’s going to be to the most expensive and least utilised broadband network in the developed world.”

TPG’s share price crashed from $12 to $8.50 after its results came out last month, and has since kept falling to below $8, because it has now dawned on the market for the first time how much more the NBN will cost in wholesale access charges than Telstra’s ADSL.

The numbers are simple, and inescapable.
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http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...y/news-story/d127c72bbabec0c2d9ee4923d3ec8d4b
 
NBN wasn't a bad idea, they just took it WAY too far.

Setting up a fibre backbone for the network is a very good idea and was happening anyway...Government intervention just meant that it got beyond the major cities and happened a lot faster, both of which are good things.

Rolling it out to peoples houses though is a massive waste of time, effort and money in 99% of cases, but the decision was made based on politics rather than practicality (delivering to peoples houses = votes, while infrastructure is boring).

So rather than a few billion spent on getting every 'phone' exchange and mobile phone tower in the country connected to fibre, we spent tens of Billions extra to do not much more.
 
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