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Seems no-one read the quotes in the report as saying "the national broadband network could never have been completed on time and on budget". And the part that says "The review by NBN Co itself and Boston Consulting and the insolvency specialist KordaMentha finds the original plan would require peak funding of $72.6 billion rather than the previously reported $44.1 billion, would raise $13 to $14 billion less than previously expected and would be delivered three years later."

The BS on this subject has all been from the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd government - and what a load of BS it was! Now we know why that report was sitting on Albo's desk in the election leadup. Another carefully laid landmine...
 

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There's plenty to criticise the former government about. It seems they pushed unreachable construction goals causing cost blow-outs and significant inefficiencies.

But if we're talking about what to do from here even this report, written by people hand picked by Turnbull, talks about upgrading to FTTP by 2030. If that's necessary why wouldn't we just do that now? The idea that it's cheaper to implement FTTN, then implement FTTdp and then finally implement FTTP is laughable. Yet this report claims just that!

The only way the report, which is hardly independent, could justify the "optimised" solution over Labor's proposal was to make absolutely ludicrous cost and revenue projections. So yes the ALP messed some stuff up. But if we're going to be investing a massive amount in broadband then the ALP's solution is infinitely better than the coalition's. If the coalition were serious about delivering quality, affordable broadband then they'd keep the ALP model and streamline the process as well as they could. Instead they're planning to spend enormous amounts for a shocking "network" that's barely any quicker in being implemented than Labor's, gives far worse outcomes and will need to be upgraded almost immediately. And that's even making their own ridiculous assumptions! Sure the ALP deserve a fair bit of flack but if the coalition actually go through with this they should never be allowed near taxpayer money again.
 
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Seems no-one read the quotes in the report as saying "the national broadband network could never have been completed on time and on budget". And the part that says "The review by NBN Co itself and Boston Consulting and the insolvency specialist KordaMentha finds the original plan would require peak funding of $72.6 billion rather than the previously reported $44.1 billion, would raise $13 to $14 billion less than previously expected and would be delivered three years later."

The BS on this subject has all been from the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd government - and what a load of BS it was! Now we know why that report was sitting on Albo's desk in the election leadup. Another carefully laid landmine...
You can say that mow the coalition have decided its not a load of old crap after all

Optimists among us re still hoping for the most practical roll out of thei public infrastrucure upgrade, as malcolm promised
 
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There's plenty to criticise the former government about. It seems they pushed unreachable construction goals causing cost blow-outs and significant inefficiencies.

But if we're talking about what to do from here even this report, written by people hand picked by Turnbull, talks about upgrading to FTTP by 2030. If that's necessary why wouldn't we just do that now? The idea that it's cheaper to implement FTTN, then implement FTTdp and then finally implement FTTP is laughable. Yet this report claims just that!

The only way the report, which is hardly independent, could justify the "optimised" solution over Labor's proposal was to make absolutely ludicrous cost and revenue projections. So yes the ALP messed some stuff up. But if we're going to be investing a massive amount in broadband then the ALP's solution is infinitely better than the coalition's. If the coalition were serious about delivering quality, affordable broadband then they'd keep the ALP model and streamline the
process as well as they could. Instead they're planning to spend enormous amounts for a shocking "network" that's barely any quicker in being implemented than Labor's, gives far worse outcomes and will need to be upgraded almost immediately. And that's even making their own ridiculous assumptions! Sure the ALP deserve a fair bit of flack but if the coalition actually go through with this they should never be allowed near taxpayer money again.
I agree, slow it down if necessary, but do it right
 

yibbida

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Seems no-one read the quotes in the report as saying "the national broadband network could never have been completed on time and on budget". And the part that says "The review by NBN Co itself and Boston Consulting and the insolvency specialist KordaMentha finds the original plan would require peak funding of $72.6 billion rather than the previously reported $44.1 billion, would raise $13 to $14 billion less than previously expected and would be delivered three years later."

The BS on this subject has all been from the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd government - and what a load of BS it was! Now we know why that report was sitting on Albo's desk in the election leadup. Another carefully laid landmine...
The political attack on the former plan was expected and should be taken with a pinch of salt the size of Lake Eyre....
 

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Fanbois predictably way off track. You know when they are desperate - attack News.

It was very well known that the NBN was always going to be a massive financial white elephant. This report is just telling us what we already knew.

And yibbida if the report was so doctored why does it say Turnbulls plan will be quite a bit more expensive than he told us?

http://www.businessspectator.com.au...ail&utm_content=544635&utm_campaign=pm&modapt=

According to the findings of the review, three years into the rollout it is already two years behind schedule, would be completed three years late and, on its current model and trajectory, would have a peak funding requirement of $72.6 billion.

The review (which included external advice from Boston Consulting, KordaMentha and Deloitte) concluded that without change, NBN Co would not deliver a return on capital, let alone the 7.1 per cent return that Conroy has consistently insisted would be achieved (and which was necessary to keep the project costs off-budget).
NBN Co would have had to significantly increase user charges – the review says by 50 per cent to 80 per cent across the board – to deliver its promised return
.

In peak funding terms, it will cost $41 billion rather than the $29.5 billion in Turnbull's policy document and be completed in 2020 rather than 2016. Still, that's $32 billion cheaper and four years earlier than the current NBN.
 

TheMase

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Not sure you have a right to be calling anybody a fanboi.

So... 41 Billion for a network that will be up against competition with wireless and superseded by the private sector in the best locations, with an inability to deliver future applications (to consumers) with the likes of simultaneous (high data) connection use that is becoming commonplace, with a limited amount of wholesale products, that costs significantly more to maintain. Vs 72 billion to do it right now, have ubiquitous technology (loops), and huge scope for future improvement that is unlikely to be matched by a competing technology.

FTTN will cost significantly more, and return significantly less than the FTTP counterpart over their life cycles.
 

medusala

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What basis do you have for saying the FTTN will cost more?

The report just out says it will cost far less. It also says the original NBN would have made NO RETURN.

Where is your financial analysis to back your case? I would be interested to see such an analysis.
 

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TheMase

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What basis do you have for saying the FTTN will cost more?

The report just out says it will cost far less. It also says the original NBN would have made NO RETURN.

Where is your financial analysis to back your case? I would be interested to see such an analysis.

The copper is old and will need to be maintained. FTTN boxes need to be direct powered with backup batteries needing to be replaced every 2 years. Income from services offered could not be the same as FTTP given its limited capacity, these services will be limited by our population and the fact internet bandwidth will be very inconsistent making services offered difficult to provide to a wider market (in a small market)both up and downstream will be limited (difficult to make adequate return) and FTTN will have significant competition for comparable services whereas FTTP will not.

The life cycle of the FTTP investment is significant compared to the FTTN version.
One technology will make the network easier to administer I suspect too.

The coalition also don't own any copper.

The report does not cover the 50 life cycle (minimum) of FTTP... So it is largely irrelevant.
 

medusala

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Yes I get that. Still what I don't get is how anyone can actually believe that either option will actually make money. All the analysis I have seen suggests there is no chance.

It isn't that I think the Coalition idea is good. I don't. I think its a steaming pile of turds. Its just a less expensive pile of turds.

This is economic madness. This is why a cost benefit wasn't done. The coalition know it is a fools errand but they are too gutless to say so. Turnbull has got himself in to a bit of a mess over this.

NB Isn't the only copper being maintained the last mile to the house?

Why wont wireless be a competitor to FTTP?
 

Admiral Byng

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So solve this riddle: Turnbull announces that it will take a lot longer and cost far more than expected to deliver his broadband plan. Then he also flags that job losses at NBNCo are likely..

.. so who's going to build it?
 

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So solve this riddle: Turnbull announces that it will take a lot longer and cost far more than expected to deliver his broadband plan. Then he also flags that job losses at NBNCo are likely..

.. so who's going to build it?
Former Ford and Holden workers???

Its always struct me as strange that the government doesn't enlist job seekers for major government works. I mean it would make it so much more effective you train them and employ them giving them x years experience by the time the projects finished they'd have tons of experience.
 

TheMase

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Yes I get that. Still what I don't get is how anyone can actually believe that either option will actually make money. All the analysis I have seen suggests there is no chance.

It isn't that I think the Coalition idea is good. I don't. I think its a steaming pile of turds. Its just a less expensive pile of turds.

This is economic madness. This is why a cost benefit wasn't done. The coalition know it is a fools errand but they are too gutless to say so. Turnbull has got himself in to a bit of a mess over this.

NB Isn't the only copper being maintained the last mile to the house?

Why wont wireless be a competitor to FTTP?
Not sure it is about making money and more about it paying itself off, which I have no doubt it will in time. The government does not need to make a commercial return as they are not a commercial entity. It is pretty clear that information and interaction will centre around the Internet over the next century and therefore it will be a valuable piece of infrastructure that can reshape our economy.

A cost benefit analysis is pretty hard to do really. If they did one 20 years ago on the Internet today, nobody would have predicted half the things we ear noes doing.

Yes, but often this is the worst copper, as Telstra have continually done patchwork fixing rather than proper maintenance, hence why NBN co have been delayed in the rollout due to more work required that Telstra let on.

Wireless will be complementary to fixed services. It is very likely, almost impossible, that wireless will be able to offer the same level of service for a similar cost. But wireless IMO will probably eclipse FTTN making it a less viable investment even though it is cheaper and finishes faster. I think in the future the services will in fact be bundled together as a package.

People always look at the Internet and technology investment with a current world view. This is impossible with something like the internet, or rather the fibre itself (which isn't internet, that is merely a service that is provided across the medium), as it will allow so many other services and applications to be developed (particularly if a commercial entity had a clear indication of their market, which will be easy under a 93% FTTP network). This makes a cost benefit analysis really difficult as it is likely the majority of flow through benefits are yet to be realised,

(Fwiw I would be willing to compromise on unit dwellings running the fibre to their basement, other then that I think the rest should be replaced including the old outdated and very limited cable network)
 

GuruJane

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The only way the report, which is hardly independent, could justify the "optimised" solution over Labor's proposal was to make absolutely ludicrous cost and revenue projections..
So this is the way Left is going to smear the advice provided by Deloitte, KordaMentha, Boston Consulting Group? Good one.
 

yibbida

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What basis do you have for saying the FTTN will cost more?

The report just out says it will cost far less. It also says the original NBN would have made NO RETURN.

Where is your financial analysis to back your case? I would be interested to see such an analysis.
How the **** could a monopoly provider of Broadband not make money in the digital century? Staggering incompetence in the assumptions.
 

yibbida

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TheMase

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So this is the way Left is going to smear the advice provided by Deloitte, KordaMentha, Boston Consulting Group? Good one.
Oh because the righties never do that. Give me a break. I find it hilarious the posters on this site that are genuine fanbois are the first ones to call out other fanbois...
 

GuruJane

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The Rightards dismiss KPMG...

And the Lieberal Party are know uses of dodgy accountants.
Oh because the righties never do that. Give me a break. I find it hilarious the posters on this site that are genuine fanbois are the first ones to call out other fanbois...
There you go Smarts - sensible Labor supporters rallying behind your cry to trash business, big and small. That's going to be an election winner. Well done :thumbsu:
 

yibbida

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http://www.zdnet.com/turnbull-breaks-nbn-promise-less-than-half-to-get-25mbps-in-2016-7000024202/

The document estimates operating expenses for between AU$35 and AU$55 for each FttN premises per year, including between AU$10 and AU$20 for electricity and between AU$25 and AU$35 for remediation of the copper line. Turnbull said that the assumptions on copper remediation are "very conservative".
A Telco tech charges $6/minute.....so they are going to remediate and test your copper connection in about 5 minutes.

If Turnbull means full of shit when he says "very conservative" I agree with him.
 

TheMase

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There you go Smarts - sensible Labor supporters rallying behind your cry to trash business, big and small. That's going to be an election winner. Well done :thumbsu:
Ah not a Labor supporter hence not a cheerleader like you... You will find the majority of my posts on this board are on this thread.

I didn't vote for any of the major political parties at the election.

Can you please explain how FTTP NBN would crash business big and small by connecting them and the consumers to world leading communications technology?

Gee some people have no vision whatsoever!!
 
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