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yibbida

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Summary of Senate Committee so far (from Whilpool user):

+ gigabit FTTP available now to anyone who already has FTTP on NBN – one positive!
- $8million spent on the Strategic Review which has been shown to be full of dodgy financial figures and factually incorrect rollout figures
- Cost of Telstra CAN not included in MTM & FTTN plans
- Cost of Telstra & Optus HFC networks not included in MTM & FTTN plans
- Telstra claims CAN is in great shape, then admits that 2mbps on a 20mbps ADSL connection is considered acceptable
- Malcolm Turnbull has advised NBN co to not release the figures to Senate Select committee under any circumstances, even a closed in camera session
- Telstra shareholdings for execs in NBN Co aren't required to be disclosed as conflicts of interest despite execs pushing for more of the funds to go to Telstra
- Ziggy and JB Rousselot think there is no demand for higher speed (up to 1gbps) connectivity
- 25/10 and 50/20 as ideal VDSL2+ speeds, but not guaranteed
- The HFC networks will not need to be resold through RSPs – it will be Telstra and Optus HFC only
- no upgrades to the HFC networks costed into the MTM plans
- When questioned about option 4 in the strategic review, no answer was given as to why option 6 was preferred
- NBN Co board members and exec team hired due to personal relationship with Malcolm Turnbull, not due to skill or competence
- JB Rousselot confirms that places with bad broadband access currently will not be prioritised for the NBN rollout, and that they will be focussing on the more profitable areas, whilst not rolling out the product which can provide the largest profit margin (FTTP)
- Internal house-hold wiring remediation will need to be done at the cost of the end-user
- VDSL2 modems will need to be purchased by consumers for their FTTN connections
- The Strategic Review found no material issues with NBN Co's FTTP rollout expenses to date yet states the rollout cost blowout to $73bn
- Many of the Telstra execs involved in halting the FTTP rollout due to asbestos issues are now working as execs for NBN Co
- The CFO of NBN Co is conveniently on holiday out of the country, and the chairman of the board/ acting CEO thinks his input isn't relevant to the Strategic Review
- NBN Co have slowed the rollout of FTTP at the direct instruction of Malcolm Turnbull which adds $11b to the cost of the projection of a full FTTP rollout
and finally
- $41b* (final figure not confirmed due to aforementioned omissions) to guarantee no speeds to anyone.
 

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TheMase

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The average speed now is approx. 5Mbps. 50Mbps-100Mbps will be fine for the next 10-20 years.

Happy to share my networking experiences with you anytime.

PS. Enjoying my work provided free braodband as well. Could get 80Mbps tomorrow if I wanted to pay for it, but funnily enough there would be no productivity gains in it, although being able to start a movie in 10 seonds as opposed to 3 minutes would be nice I guess.
That's okay I will move it for you.

That average speed is not adequate now, and is not really indicative of anything. Adequate speeds now, as you have well indicated, is around 25Mbps. So, our future guarantee (not a guarantee for many many reasons) is, at best, double maybe quadruple that. And that is not even considering the quality of the cable and thickness of the copper compared to other setups in the world.
Not to mention NBN do not own a cable network, and don't know the extent of the network they plan on utilising.

I could give a rats about your network experience, and not sure why it has even come into consideration. If it is because you think it makes you more qualified... Well whatever. Definitely not the case.

Again you are off with the movie rubbish and how fast you can download stuff. Totally missing the point, yet again.

If there were no productivity gains to the Internet, your employer probably would not be giving it to you for free...

Besides fibre is more than the Internet, but it is a shame people like you have no vision and cannot see that spending money to last 10 or 20 years pushing greater cost into the future is poor for Australia (or something that will last min 50 years) and be upgradable over and over again...

Can you find me the post you claim you said if the cost of the Labor party policy was right then you support it? I have followed the NBN since the start and I have been on these boards for a long time and I don't think I have ever seen you post out of step with your favourite political party. Could be wrong but it would be very rare!
 

medusala

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So what is the point then Mase ?

Where is the economic benefit to go above 25Mbps?

Why should not business pay for this? And what % of households will generate additional economic activity due to this?

How is supplying Yibbida with 100Mbps in the national interest?
 
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So what is the point then Mase ?

Where is the economic benefit to go above 25Mbps?

Why should not business pay for this? And what % of households will generate additional economic activity due to this?

How is supplying Yibbida with 100Mbps in the national interest?

Come on - there really is nothing he could say that would convince you. Be honest.
 

TheMase

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Come on - there really is nothing he could say that would convince you. Be honest.
We have been round a few times. To his credit he thinks the other is a waste too (still a fanboi). I just don't know why he can't see, since it is comparative between the two, that we get a significant more bang for our buck with fibre, something that is very likely to have to be significantly upgraded again within 20 years.

Fibre will last at least another 30 on top of that.

But no point trying to convince him.

And there is clearly more economic upside to the full fibre plan. I am not sure how there couldn't be...
 

medusala

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Noone has even tried to convince me re economic benefits. Even if they were evident(yeah sure, that's why PC wasn't allowed anywhere near this) why should business get a free kick from taxpayers? Since when is everyone a fan of corporate welfare?

As for fanboi, what tosh. The Libs are even worse in some ways than the alp. They know this is utter nonsense and persist in wasting billions because they are chasing Gen Y votes.

Shameful populism.
 

TheMase

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Noone has even tried to convince me re economic benefits. Even if they were evident(yeah sure, that's why PC wasn't allowed anywhere near this) why should business get a free kick from taxpayers? Since when is everyone a fan of corporate welfare?

As for fanboi, what tosh. The Libs are even worse in some ways than the alp. They know this is utter nonsense and persist in wasting billions because they are chasing Gen Y votes.

Shameful populism.

Well, for starters Meds, the NBN equipment installed includes 4 ports to which services can be delivered on. They are activated separately, for instance my NBN is on Port One. Therefore multiple economic opportunities to sell to the consumer via the technology be in pay tv, medical services or whatever. Not the case on the coalition plan limiting its potential uses.

Corporate business already have this technology as has been pointed out by people such as yourself. Small business find it unaffordable and unable to compete with these big corporations. These businesses though, by and large, communicate with consumers and therefore there is a big advantage to having a known and consistent set of technologies. Ie. if I wanted to invest in Australia for Internet based technologies then I want to know my market. If only those on fibre would be eligible then the coalition plan adds uncertainly about the return. 93% gives a lot more certainty about the likely return of any investment as at least those who will be able to use it are the great majority. This is particularly important in Australia as we are a small country (and regularly get screwed because of the ability of a corporate entity not being able to make a return on investment and thus we get it at significant additional cost or not at all). These businesses also pay tax, and if memory serves correct, I am sure you have indicated their tax show be cut. IMO this is a better contribution to Australia than cutting their tax.

I said to be fair you've been critical of both internet technologies. You are rarely out of step with the Libs otherwise from my memory...(perhaps ideologically driven) But better than most around here.

I find the pointing at Gen Y funny given, ultimately, it is Gen Y that will pay for it.
 

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Noone has even tried to convince me re economic benefits. Even if they were evident(yeah sure, that's why PC wasn't allowed anywhere near this) why should business get a free kick from taxpayers? Since when is everyone a fan of corporate welfare?

As for fanboi, what tosh. The Libs are even worse in some ways than the alp. They know this is utter nonsense and persist in wasting billions because they are chasing Gen Y votes.

Shameful populism.
Since the Tea Party in the states refuses to cut the $150 billion per year in Corporate Welfare, or the $100 billion per year in Agriculture welfare maybe?

As for fanboi
Thanks Rupert! :rolleyes:
 

Janus

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Well, for starters Meds, the NBN equipment installed includes 4 ports to which services can be delivered on. They are activated separately, for instance my NBN is on Port One. Therefore multiple economic opportunities to sell to the consumer via the technology be in pay tv, medical services or whatever. Not the case on the coalition plan limiting its potential uses.

Corporate business already have this technology as has been pointed out by people such as yourself. Small business find it unaffordable and unable to compete with these big corporations. These businesses though, by and large, communicate with consumers and therefore there is a big advantage to having a known and consistent set of technologies. Ie. if I wanted to invest in Australia for Internet based technologies then I want to know my market. If only those on fibre would be eligible then the coalition plan adds uncertainly about the return. 93% gives a lot more certainty about the likely return of any investment as at least those who will be able to use it are the great majority. This is particularly important in Australia as we are a small country (and regularly get screwed because of the ability of a corporate entity not being able to make a return on investment and thus we get it at significant additional cost or not at all). These businesses also pay tax, and if memory serves correct, I am sure you have indicated their tax show be cut. IMO this is a better contribution to Australia than cutting their tax.

I said to be fair you've been critical of both internet technologies. You are rarely out of step with the Libs otherwise from my memory...(perhaps ideologically driven) But better than most around here.

I find the pointing at Gen Y funny given, ultimately, it is Gen Y that will pay for it.
So let me get this straight. You think that the government should subsidize businesses by providing them a conduit for high speed internet to homes so they can deliver...what? Advertising? What services can be done through high speed broadband that you can't do now? Your vague 'medical services'? We've already got medical services on hand - it's called picking up the phone. Trust me, I'd rather improve our transportation system and get the ambulance there faster with professional help rather than waste billions on a scheme where some 5 year old can try to perform CPR with a doctor on the tv telling them what to do.

I really hope that one of the things the Libs introduce is retroactive pricing for NBN connections already installed, because that's what I'd do. Why should I have to pay for your shit? I'll pay for my own no problem, though, because let's cut down to what it's really about for 98% of the population: streaming movies/tv shows on demand and playing games online.
 

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Janus

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That's okay I will move it for you.

That average speed is not adequate now, and is not really indicative of anything. Adequate speeds now, as you have well indicated, is around 25Mbps. So, our future guarantee (not a guarantee for many many reasons) is, at best, double maybe quadruple that. And that is not even considering the quality of the cable and thickness of the copper compared to other setups in the world.
Not to mention NBN do not own a cable network, and don't know the extent of the network they plan on utilising.

I could give a rats about your network experience, and not sure why it has even come into consideration. If it is because you think it makes you more qualified... Well whatever. Definitely not the case.

Again you are off with the movie rubbish and how fast you can download stuff. Totally missing the point, yet again.

If there were no productivity gains to the Internet, your employer probably would not be giving it to you for free...

Besides fibre is more than the Internet, but it is a shame people like you have no vision and cannot see that spending money to last 10 or 20 years pushing greater cost into the future is poor for Australia (or something that will last min 50 years) and be upgradable over and over again...

Can you find me the post you claim you said if the cost of the Labor party policy was right then you support it? I have followed the NBN since the start and I have been on these boards for a long time and I don't think I have ever seen you post out of step with your favourite political party. Could be wrong but it would be very rare!
Account transactions are done using the internet. Information services, ditto. Neither of which require high speed connections. Remote desktop work would enable people to work from home and service a variety of premises, but again, why wouldn't the business itself pay for this connection to the home and their places of business?

Maybe you should regale us with all the things you think the NBN can do and why the Australian taxpayer should foot the bill for it because it 'increases business productivity'. Bearing in mind that most of the businesses in Australia are small ones, and they don't really have a need for things like video conferencing etc.
 

TheMase

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Umm the government is going to be subsidising Internet technology mate, did you miss the news ??

It is now whether we future proof our services by paying somewhere between 10- 30 billion more (depending on the figures you use for each) or go with technology that costs a shitload but has limited scope for improvement (in comparison).

Also, again everything focused on the now.... It is just too hard for some people.

Re: medical, I am referring to getting people out of hospital beds and into their homes where they can be remotely monitored as opposed to taking a hospital bed for significant amounts of time...

Can't wait to bring this thread back one day to point out the short sighted ness of many here.
 

TheMase

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Account transactions are done using the internet. Information services, ditto. Neither of which require high speed connections. Remote desktop work would enable people to work from home and service a variety of premises, but again, why wouldn't the business itself pay for this connection to the home and their places of business?

Maybe you should regale us with all the things you think the NBN can do and why the Australian taxpayer should foot the bill for it because it 'increases business productivity'. Bearing in mind that most of the businesses in Australia are small ones, and they don't really have a need for things like video conferencing etc.

No. How about you tell me why it is smart for the government to invest in something that will clearly be out of date and not have the scope for future upgrades. You know, value for money?

The government IS SPENDING SHITLOADS OF MONEY ON AN NBN.
 

TheMase

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Not to mention the private telcos will cherry pick the best areas for fibre themselves and wireless technology will be equal and we will have a true white elephant that some like to talk about here on our hands. This will clearly reduce the ROI for the government.
 

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So why did we ever get rid of modems ? If you keep the websites to 16 couours and simple you can do all you need to do

Bloody kids today expecting full colour and bells and whistles

Of course it is adequate today, but wont be in a couple of decades, and the answer then is likely to be fibre. home nbn will be along long way from the leading edge anyway
this is just a plan to progressively improve the infrastructure which will be operated ona a commercial model.

If the privatisation of telstra hadnt been botched completely it would probably be happening already with a market model. How good does the few billion that costello and co raked in look now ?
 

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No. How about you tell me why it is smart for the government to invest in something that will clearly be out of date and not have the scope for future upgrades. You know, value for money?

The government IS SPENDING SHITLOADS OF MONEY ON AN NBN.
Because the howard government ballesd up the telstra privatisation and created a private monopoly with no real competition in fixed services
 

medusala

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JRoo

incorrect again

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/10/23/tea-party-farm-bill-showdown/3172141/

TheMase

I still don't understand why small business shouldn't have to pay for it (and it will only be a very small % of small business that benefit). Whether I have 20Mbps or 100 is utterly irrelevant to me and the vast majority of small businesses.

A cut in payroll tax or business rates would benefit far more businesses AND be far,far cheaper.

This may be good technology but is economically idiotic.
 

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TheMase

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JRoo

incorrect again

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/10/23/tea-party-farm-bill-showdown/3172141/

TheMase

I still don't understand why small business shouldn't have to pay for it (and it will only be a very small % of small business that benefit). Whether I have 20Mbps or 100 is utterly irrelevant to me and the vast majority of small businesses.

A cut in payroll tax or business rates would benefit far more businesses AND be far,far cheaper.

This may be good technology but is economically idiotic.
So hang on... We should not provide a network to all because it is corporate welfare but we should cut business tax... Which can be considered giving them a gift or corporate welfare...

Right...

Another way... Provide them with a tool they can invest in or give them cash to put on their bottom line.

Yeah, whatever.

You also continue to look at the Internet with now in mind, I guess I don't really expect you conservatives to have any vision.
 

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We have a requirement at work which would be very simple if most places had reasonably good upload speeds

Basically video collection and sending to a central store, but one or two mb upload speeds wont cut it

As it is we will need to devise a system where people have to collate and mail usb drives around the state
 

PottSie2

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We have a requirement at work which would be very simple if most places had reasonably good upload speeds

Basically video collection and sending to a central store, but one or two mb upload speeds wont cut it

As it is we will need to devise a system where people have to collate and mail usb drives around the state
Sounds interesting. Security company ? How many sites ? What length video ?
 

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Cant really comment further, but it brought it home to me that the NBN would find plenty of use, even if it was surveillance and other personal intrusions. Whether thats a good or bad thing is another matter.

Fwiw turnbull has said areas where busuness premises are will get fttp, whether they have that already is a different thing.

Our network guy told me A really fast pipe between two offices across the greater melbourne area would be about 200 grand a year.

Also NBN would mean outsourced it infrastructure would be much more common, so IT people in larger organizations might find a job shift happening, so be careful what you wish for
 
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