Preview National Draft discussion (Picks 14, 35, 43, 58)

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dayton

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Hodgy

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I'd be very surprised if he goes earlier.

There's been maybe three guys in 40 years as short as him, and only one you'd truly call a success. It's not like there hasn't been short guys - there's been hundreds of them. But only one who truly made it.
Not sure I agree with this. Off the top of my head Libba won a Brownlow and didn't Shaun Hart win a norm Smith? I think you would find that there has been quite a few that have succeeded. The real question that I have though is what exactly holds you back when you are shorter? I mean this guy has amazing skills and endurance and despite what some people say he is actually very fast. He obviously won't be in any marking duels but why does that matter if he plays outside mid and no one can keep up with him. I suppose what I'm saying is how would Brent Harvey be a better player if he was 6 inches taller. I know in NFL small running backs are doing really well at the moment because they are hard to find in traffic and taller players have trouble tackling them. In AFL I would think someone of his height would be almost impossible to tackle legally.
Anyway I just can't see how a guy that everyone thinks would go No.1 if he was 20 cm taller might not even get drafted. I would be more than happy for us to take a punt on him, especially as we aren't weak in any areas except potentially outside mids with pace and good skills.
 

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I think we are too far out from the draft for the scribes to know who we are interested in. Usually the mail comes a day or two before the draft. I am hoping we swing for the fences with our 1st pick regardless of whether its a tall or small. I like the sound of McKenzie. I think his upside is huge and he fits our need starting in 2016 when Pods won't be around any more. He reminds me of Tippett in his draft year. Raw, basketball background, great size and athletic abilities and fantastic contested mark. Both have great work ethic. We need that contested marking beast and we like going left field.
 

Hemi

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I think McKenzie would be a huge risk. He does have agility, speed off the mark and can clunk one but he's a man mountain who'd have 20kegs on most teenage defenders. Skills also questionable.
 

betterthanu

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The more i read about this draft the more our controversial pick swap makes perfect sense. Sounds like you can almost throw a blanket over the 1st round and plenty of very good prospects will slip into the 2nd/3rd round. Even if we don't know who's going to be there at 14 i still think this was a good move.
 

scoota10

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Sorry for asking this
What is the Difference between Champion Data Top 10 and Nightmares Power Rankings
Champion Data does not have Jayden Laverde in the top Ten
Nightmare Power Rankings have him at 11

Yet in the Draft he should go between 4 & 20 if he Slides this is the player I would take

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-11-10/17-days-to-the-draft-meet-jayden-laverde


and for a late pick.... http://www.afl.com.au/video/2014-09-20/draft-prospect-jayden-foster

Son of the Foster who played for the Bulldogs

Strange how Both 1st names are the Same :)
 

lunacy

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Sorry for asking this
What is the Difference between Champion Data Top 10 and Nightmares Power Rankings
Champion Data does not have Jayden Laverde in the top Ten
Nightmare Power Rankings have him at 11

Yet in the Draft he should go between 4 & 20 if he Slides this is the player I would take

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-11-10/17-days-to-the-draft-meet-jayden-laverde


and for a late pick.... http://www.afl.com.au/video/2014-09-20/draft-prospect-jayden-foster

Son of the Foster who played for the Bulldogs

Strange how Both 1st names are the Same :)
Yeah I really like the look of Foster. Looks like a poor man's Jeremy Cameron.
 

Golumless

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Couldn't find much info on Howe and Dale. Howe a 191cm defender compared to Tom Langdon and Dale a medium sized forward.
Ended up asking Chris25 about Bailey Dale

I considered Bailey Dale when I was putting together my fourth round, and he was pretty unlucky as I could just as easily snuck him into the third round. I don't see him going particularly early, but I do see him as being a good value pickup. I'm curious as to why the draft watchers who supposedly see the TAC Cup every week don't think he's even worth a mention. He's a skinny kid who has been very consistent in his first season of TAC Cup football, and not only that but has had some big games too. I'd probably compare him to something along the lines of Kayne Turner from the Kangaroos. Only skinny, but works hard and can have an impact with few touches. And from the games I've seen of Dale, his skills are well and truly above average for the TAC Cup. Considering some of the other names that pop up regularly in phantom drafts, his lack of interest is interesting.

I think he'd be a handy pick up in the later rounds. I like the developmental types later on, the ones who you watch play and think they have so much more to give. It just might take a little while to get it out. They don't always pan out, but I'd rather that than a guy who is getting 30 touches but can't kick. Or a physically developed flanker without much scope for improvement.
Shame there isn't a profile of him anywhere, seems like our first rookie option/ pick 59 range.
 

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GROTTO

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Is there a reason why there is such a a long time between the grand final and the national draft?

I would have thought it would be in both parties interest ie the draftee's and the Clubs to know what their plans for the future are sooner rather than later.

I presume it is because of their year 12 exams?
 
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Is there a reason why there is such a a long time between the grand final and the national draft?

I would have thought it would be in both parties interest ie the draftee's and the Clubs to know what their plans for the future are sooner rather than later.

I presume it is because of their year 12 exams?
yes - school exams is the reason. Allow them to concentrate on them before the draft.
 

James_37

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So, that leaves us with 3 rookie picks?

Do we have a spot available for a PSD pick?
Yes 4 ND and 3 RD picks. We only have a pick in the PSD at this stage if we don't use our 4th pick in the ND. If we decide we want another pick, we have to delist another player.

PSD is merely an extension of the ND, a 2nd chance for teams to add players to their main list. For the most part it is obsolete and is only good for making threats during trade week.
 
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Yes 4 ND and 3 RD picks. We only have a pick in the PSD at this stage if we don't use our 4th pick in the ND. If we decide we want another pick, we have to delist another player.

PSD is merely an extension of the ND, a 2nd chance for teams to add players to their main list. For the most part it is obsolete and is only good for making threats during trade week.
Unless Essendon have a fire sale after having to delist 25 players given 2 year suspentions.
 

GROTTO

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Unless Essendon have a fire sale after having to delist 25 players given 2 year suspentions.
Hang on, are you serious? Firstly can they delist all these players? Do they have to pay them out? Could they recruit upto 25 players in the 2014 ND?

A 2 year ban on a player that is around 28-29+ is a death sentence. Which I have no problem with that.
 
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Hang on, are you serious? Firstly can they delist all these players? Do they have to pay them out? Could they recruit upto 25 players in the 2014 ND?

A 2 year ban on a player that is around 28-29+ is a death sentence. Which I have no problem with that.
Hypothetically, lets suggest all players invoved are given a 2 year ban - i don't see how the club should be able to retain thoes players on their primary playing list.

They are only allowed 42 players plus 6 rookies.

If they are given 2 years suspension, they will need to delist them to construct a functioning list to play the season and to counter any injuries or form. They can not go 2 years with 16 or 17 players plus a bunch of rookie picks.

They can not have a primary AFL list plus the extra players on suspension. The AFL need to hit Essendon hard to send a strong message thast club will have a long road back to becoe sucessfull.
 

James_37

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I think we are too far out from the draft for the scribes to know who we are interested in. Usually the mail comes a day or two before the draft. I am hoping we swing for the fences with our 1st pick regardless of whether its a tall or small. I like the sound of McKenzie. I think his upside is huge and he fits our need starting in 2016 when Pods won't be around any more. He reminds me of Tippett in his draft year. Raw, basketball background, great size and athletic abilities and fantastic contested mark. Both have great work ethic. We need that contested marking beast and we like going left field.
Agreed, within a week of the draft is where reporters like Quayle and a lesser extent Twomey get their goss.

Its interesting going back and seeing how these two have done in recent years with regards to their mail.

In 2012, Emma Quayle had the players going to the right teams up until pick 15, she got McCrae and Stringer around the wrong way with 5&6, then with 12 and 14 she had Corr and Jaksch around the wrong way. She then got Hrovat wrong at 15, but got 16 and 17 right, before getting the next few mixed up a bit, although most went there abouts.

In 2012, Twomey got the first 4 right, then messed up 5, 6, 7 and 8. He got Vlastuin right at 9, Daniher was FS at 10, but from there he got maybe 1 in 3, 1 in 4.

Oddly enough both were smack on right up until pick 14 in 2013, where GWS's pick 14 seemed to shape the rest of the draft, as neither got much right after that.

I looked at 2011, couldn't find anything for Twomey, however Quayle had the 15 all going to the right clubs bar Longer to GWS(went to Brisbane) and Greene to Brisbane (went to GWS). Note that GWS owned 11 of those 15 picks, so its pretty difficult to judge, however her top 15 all went in the top 15 on draft day.

All of this says to me that we probably won't be too much the wiser as to who we will pick come draft day, however we will have a pretty good idea of who will be available.

Certainly if there were a draft where it was a good idea to drop down 4 picks from 10-14 for 12 picks later in the draft, this was probably it. The proof of the pudding will obviously be in eating though.

The more i read about this draft the more our controversial pick swap makes perfect sense. Sounds like you can almost throw a blanket over the 1st round and plenty of very good prospects will slip into the 2nd/3rd round. Even if we don't know who's going to be there at 14 i still think this was a good move.
The only way for mine that it would make sense is if we certainly weren't after a key defender as many feel we are. There seems to be little consensus about where players go in this draft, but what people do seem certain about is that a bunch of key defenders will go between 8 and 14. If we're specifically after a key defender, then you don't go giving a bunch of clubs also keen for one a leg up.
 

James_37

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Hypothetically, lets suggest all players invoved are given a 2 year ban - i don't see how the club should be able to retain thoes players on their primary playing list.

They are only allowed 42 players plus 6 rookies.

If they are given 2 years suspension, they will need to delist them to construct a functioning list to play the season and to counter any injuries or form. They can not go 2 years with 16 or 17 players plus a bunch of rookie picks.

They can not have a primary AFL list plus the extra players on suspension. The AFL need to hit Essendon hard to send a strong message thast club will have a long road back to becoe sucessfull.
It will be interesting to see how it all pans out, currently you've got 2 parties going at it in a pissing contest in ASADA and Hird, then you've got the players who just want it all over with and the Essendon FC who are currently hedging their bets each way, trying to be friends with everyone, but really not quite sure what they stand for.

It basically seems all bar ASADA and Hird want to see the end of this as quickly as possible so that all parties can move on. Whilst its good to see Hird stand up for what he believes in, certainly on the evidence I've seen, it would seem he's in the wrong and he's doing no one a service by fighting tooth and nail the whole way. Certainly it sounds like the initial deal to give the players 6 month bans, to be served essentially all during the offseason bar maybe 1 or 2 games is off the table.

Even if they get away with 6 months, it won't likely be decided until late December or even next year, so they'll end up losing those 25 players for at a bare minimum half a season.

What I suspect might happen, is Essendon will be given an exemption from the list cap of 40 and allowed to draft in a supplementary list of 23+year old players to play as required during these suspensions. These players are then immediately delisted once their other players return.

Even if its 2 years and Essendon decide they'll have to delist all 25 players, the PSD will have been held more than likely before anything is resolved and appealed three times by James Hird.
 
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Like I said - if it's only 6 months and back dated; the AFL is a joke and officially jumped the shark.

If it was us, the AFL would have had this over and done with, the players given 2 years and our list would be 40 SANFL reserves standard players.
 

Danoz

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Hypothetically, lets suggest all players invoved are given a 2 year ban - i don't see how the club should be able to retain thoes players on their primary playing list.

They are only allowed 42 players plus 6 rookies.

If they are given 2 years suspension, they will need to delist them to construct a functioning list to play the season and to counter any injuries or form. They can not go 2 years with 16 or 17 players plus a bunch of rookie picks.

They can not have a primary AFL list plus the extra players on suspension. The AFL need to hit Essendon hard to send a strong message thast club will have a long road back to becoe sucessfull.
Even if they only miss half a year, they can't survive 11 games with only half an available list. IMO they'll need to delist another 5-10 players if that'll be the case. Easy pickings if some smart clubs are on the ball.
 
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Even if they only miss half a year, they can't survive 11 games with only half an available list. IMO they'll need to delist another 5-10 players if that'll be the case. Easy pickings if some smart clubs are on the ball.
Agree but I think James_37 is on the money with the AFL setting up some horse shit rule to help them out.

This must set Essendon back 5 to 10 years as a massive deterrent. They won't care about losing money as the AFL will fund them or some cash cow will fund them, but wins and losses are the things that matters.
 
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