News National Trust tackles Richmond on grandstand demolition

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PetterdHoisted

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Apr 27, 2014
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im no expert on this, but i know in Sydney its an old trick to allow buildings to fall into a massive state of disrepair to the point its impossible to renovate, so demo is approved.

also what they want isnt a dealbreaker, its what VCAT will impose
in Melbourne there is a 'mysterious fire' on Saturday evening, then the owners move in with the bulldozers early Sunday morning.
 

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sregit

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I
I'm tipping you're not an arts and history buff.
It would be embarrassing to fight the National Trust in vcat or court to destroy our own history.
Someone at the club has gone mad .
VCAT IS A TOO
I
I'm tipping you're not an arts and history buff.
It would be embarrassing to fight the National Trust in vcat or court to destroy our own history.
Someone at the club has gone mad .
I actually live in a heritage overlay area in Hawthorn and have attended several VCAT hearings to try and prevent lovely homes being destroyed, so builders and individuals could build something modern.

One thing I've learnt is that VCAT will oppose a development provided it does not cost them financially. Every application opposed by VCAT Disputed via the legal system/courts has been granted for they do not have the budget to fight the disputes. If RFC take it to coUrt VCAT will fold. VCAT IS A TOOTHLESS ORGANISATION.
 
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mcc are campaigners they could easily give us some land i bet if it was melbourne they'd give it


the last time their grass near the jack dyer was used was when some campaigners had sex in the 60s on it
 

_RT_

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Thank god wiser heads may prevail over the bulldozer brigade. Incredibly significant structure, to the club and to the Yarra Park/Richmond community. And what justification to it's removal? Creative architecture all that is required to have a wonderful blend of the old and new at PRO, there is oodles of space as I have shown with maps posted previously.

We already see the furphy 'It goes or we go' getting rolled out in response...as if any club would leave the greatest real estate in football because the offices are getting cramped..cram in together and enjoy it, the club won't always be this big and successful, we will shrink again when we inevitably fall down the table. That's football, boom and bust.

Finally, the fact that we have been a GOAT side the last 4 years with a training ground that is a mash-up of the MCG and Kardinia Park ground shapes puts paid to that argument too.

I just don't see a foothold for the demolishonists on this one.
The club has no dedicated training space/change rooms for the womens teams. When games are played at the ground opposition teams were/are using portables as their change room.

They also struggle to accommodate the administrative staff, the coaches, the KGI & BHF in the current building and can't use most if the facilities in the Jack Dyer Stand.

The club isn't going to shrink as we move forward it is only going to get bigger as we'll see the return of the VFLW side down the track, the KGI & BHF continue to expand in size as well.

Hence the reason why the new facility is required. Otherwise the club may well be forced to relocate some if not all of the club to ensure it's future.

As for the ground size not being MCG size and it not making a difference because we've been so good the last 4 years. You may be right, but now imagine how much better we could become if we're actually able to train on a ground that's the same size moving forward, where we can actually implement set ups and structures in training before putting then into play.
 

PetterdHoisted

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The club has no dedicated training space/change rooms for the womens teams. When games are played at the ground opposition teams were/are using portables as their change room.

They also struggle to accommodate the administrative staff, the coaches, the KGI & BHF in the current building and can't use most if the facilities in the Jack Dyer Stand.

The club isn't going to shrink as we move forward it is only going to get bigger as we'll see the return of the VFLW side down the track, the KGI & BHF continue to expand in size as well.

Hence the reason why the new facility is required. Otherwise the club may well be forced to relocate some if not all of the club to ensure it's future.

As for the ground size not being MCG size and it not making a difference because we've been so good the last 4 years. You may be right, but now imagine how much better we could become if we're actually able to train on a ground that's the same size moving forward, where we can actually implement set ups and structures in training before putting then into play.
lol so tell me in which of the recent 37 years in the wilderness would the Tigers have won a premiership if we had had a bit bigger training ground? 1982? Not to mention that from inception to 2010-ish, the club wasn't even using the centre of the ground for half the year as it was a cricket pitch, and yet we are still just a few cups behind the leaders, having been in the league for less time than them.

We shouldn't forget that PRO is actually the Richmond Cricket Ground. We just ten years ago muscled out the Richmond Cricket Club who had been playing there since 1854. That's already a massive change in the traditional use of the arena, and it's place in Richmond community life.

Back then Gale said we wanted a Docklands-sized training ground once we got the cricketers out. Apparently that has now escalated to MCG size and we now have to muscle out the heritage stand too?

It's pretty clear what is going on here. The club is having a fantastic run, but it needs to keep its feet on the ground and understand that it has to curb some of the exuberance and ambition to live within the Richmond community.
 

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Bojangles17

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lol so tell me in which of the recent 37 years in the wilderness would the Tigers have won a premiership if we had had a bit bigger training ground? 1982? Not to mention that from inception to 2010-ish, the club wasn't even using the centre of the ground for half the year as it was a cricket pitch, and yet we are still just a few cups behind the leaders, having been in the league for less time than them.

We shouldn't forget that PRO is actually the Richmond Cricket Ground. We just ten years ago muscled out the Richmond Cricket Club who had been playing there since 1854. That's already a massive change in the traditional use of the arena, and it's place in Richmond community life.

Back then Gale said we wanted a Docklands-sized training ground once we got the cricketers out. Apparently that has now escalated to MCG size and we now have to muscle out the heritage stand too?

It's pretty clear what is going on here. The club is having a fantastic run, but it needs to keep its feet on the ground and understand that it has to curb some of the exuberance and ambition to live within the Richmond community.
Did you conveniently gloss over that the amenities are insufficient for the size of club we are now , the size of arena has fa to with the case for
 

Tzatziki_Man

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Is Brunswick Street ovals 'stand' heritage listed?

Cause a few years ago, I walked up to see the historic stands only to find 100+ homeless people and pigeons settling there like a little community, drinking and drug abusing.

Do you really want that for Tigerland? Cause if Richmond move away from Richmond, the site will lose its soul, only for a crumpled piece of crap left behind.

Australians have a fixation on trying to heritage list everything, this isn't the Parthenon or the Pyramids ffs, it's a 100 year old worn out building.
 

mauricerioli

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Is Brunswick Street ovals 'stand' heritage listed?

Cause a few years ago, I walked up to see the historic stands only to find 100+ homeless people and pigeons settling there like a little community, drinking and drug abusing.

Do you really want that for Tigerland? Cause if Richmond move away from Richmond, the site will lose its soul, only for a crumpled piece of crap left behind.

Australians have a fixation on trying to heritage list everything, this isn't the Parthenon or the Pyramids ffs, it's a 100 year old worn out building.
Spot on.

“Architectural significance” lol.

It’s a decrepit old stand that offers bugger all to the local community.

The new facility will offer much more to the Richmond community.
 

PetterdHoisted

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Did you conveniently gloss over that the amenities are insufficient for the size of club we are now , the size of arena has fa to with the case for
well we have to work this out! does it have fa to do with it?

The pro-demolishionists were talking about cramped offices a year ago, now womens toilets at the gym mentioned too.

10 years ago we needed Docklands size training ground, now MCG-size is required?

What is the true priority for the club?
 

sregit

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lol so tell me in which of the recent 37 years in the wilderness would the Tigers have won a premiership if we had had a bit bigger training ground? 1982? Not to mention that from inception to 2010-ish, the club wasn't even using the centre of the ground for half the year as it was a cricket pitch, and yet we are still just a few cups behind the leaders, having been in the league for less time than them.

We shouldn't forget that PRO is actually the Richmond Cricket Ground. We just ten years ago muscled out the Richmond Cricket Club who had been playing there since 1854. That's already a massive change in the traditional use of the arena, and it's place in Richmond community life.

Back then Gale said we wanted a Docklands-sized training ground once we got the cricketers out. Apparently that has now escalated to MCG size and we now have to muscle out the heritage stand too?

It's pretty clear what is going on here. The club is having a fantastic run, but it needs to keep its feet on the ground and understand that it has to curb some of the exuberance and ambition to live within the Richmond community.
'club to curb some of the exuberance and ambition to live within the Richmond community' Are you joking? RFC needs to expand facilities to cater for AFLW, VFL , Wheelchair, KG and admin. Plus improve member facilities. If you don't expand when you're affluent, when do you?
If the club leaves PRO because it can't accommodate the required infrastructure, how will you feel about that dilapidated old stand that will not be maintained by anyone?

It's the location that counts 'RICHMOND', not an old stand that is past is use by date. I understand people want to keep the history but surely not to the detriment of the club moving forward.
 
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PetterdHoisted

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'club to curb some of the exuberance and ambition to live within the Richmond community' Are you joking? RFC needs to expand facilities to cater for AFLW, VFL , Wheelchair, KG and admin. Plus improve member facilities. If you don't expand when you're affluent, when do you?
If the club leaves PRO because it can't accommodate the required infrastructure, how will you feel about that dilapidated old stand that will not be maintained by anyone?

It's the location that counts 'RICHMOND', not an old stand that is past is use by date. I understand people want to keep the history but surely not to the detriment of the club moving forward.
To the latter point, people protect and restore dilapidated old buildings all the time precisely because they inform our sense of place. The vista looking across PRO to the JD stand is iconic for 10s of 1000s of people who pass there every day, and I think the David Mandie building has also achieved a special place in peoples hearts in much a shorter time.

I am all-for expansion, but by adding to that rich tapestry of significant buildings, there is space to do it and an opportunity to fix the Bruntun Av/Richmond station safety hazard at the same time.

I am not all-for expanding the training surface to be the size of the MCG, I think that is over-exuberant and would take too much amenity away from that corner of Yarra Park.
 

RunningBounce

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Don't be a liar.
They didn't consult with heritage experts in the first place, the National Trust.
Punt Road Oval is part of a heritage sports precinct.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
If they had consulted properly, all of this rigmarole could have been avoided.
I look at it the other way around. We didn't make the plans in secret. It was in the papers one year ago. It was on the telly one year ago. Did the National Trust see an issue then? Why are they raising trouble now?

The other issue I have with this point of view is that experts on the heritage and history of the Richmond FC are the Richmond FC - not National Trust. Do you think O'Neal, Gale, Rhett Bartlett and Roland who runs the museum just brushed over this decision? This is a big deal for our club. It was not taken lightly. And it was resolved properly. A year ago. I didn't particularly like the decision but I made my peace with it. This is the way forward.

Anyone disputing it now (including the National Trust) is just sh*t stirring.
 

RunningBounce

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Personally, I know this may sound weird to some, but I think the turf itself - grown over the blood and sweat of generations of Richmond men - is way more sacred than the stand.
Amen, Tiger. And the dirt underneath the turf. That spot, OUR spot under the sun, is where the heritage value lays.
 

Ned_Flanders

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well we have to work this out! does it have fa to do with it?

The pro-demolishionists were talking about cramped offices a year ago, now womens toilets at the gym mentioned too.

10 years ago we needed Docklands size training ground, now MCG-size is required?

What is the true priority for the club?
You must have amnesia.

I can tell you the lack of women's facilities was definitely mentioned. How do I know this? Because I posted it.

When we were bidding for govt funds (along with every other club), I attended a Tommy Hafey Club function at which Peggy made it clear what the govt priorities were.

It wasn't supporting AFL players getting better change rooms or training areas. It was increasing the scope and support for the development and training of women's AFL pathways.

The fact we lost the aflw application for the second time we knew would hurt us, and ultimately it did (we got nothing)

There are three reasons the govt is chipping in money:

1) aflw
2) KGI
3) BHF

The last two have outgrown their space in the existing building. The first wasn't even a consideration.

And oddly enough all three are moving into the new building.

And the club has 100% rejected the notion of shipping off these arms to the suburbs. We are all Richmond FC, and just look at Melbourne to see what happens to club culture when you have everyone working in separate parts of the city
 

RFCGloryJC

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It's a heritage building in a heritage sports and park precinct.
My original point the other day was the National Trust heritage experts were not consulted at first.
We live in a democracy.
If they deem a building has heritage value they have a right to intervene.
The Junction Oval development is the best, combining retention of the heritage stands and a new wing.
 

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