Nationalise all health care?

[Crankyhawk]

I'll run this idea past you.

We're all aware of the fact that the private health insurance industry is in trouble as the lists of insured people get (on the whole) older and sicker. We know that you often need to wait months or even years to see a specialist or get surgery done in the public system but if you're willing to pay upfront then the wait is mere days or weeks.

Would it work in Australia to cut the Gordian knot? Effectively make it a regulatory condition of practising medicine in Australia that you must bulk bill everything, absorb the entire private health care system into Medicare, make all health care free at the point of use and pay for that via (God forbid) higher taxes?

I assume this would never work (I've never worked in the health or insurance sectors myself). I also assume you would never get the Australian people to vote for this. You talk about raising taxes to do something worthwhile and people start frothing at the mouth and breaking down in tears.

I don’t think it would work. An example of fully public health is the NHS and there are complaints about elective surgery being glacial. That said it is s**t how private health provides limited service then when it is too hard/ unprofitable dumps it on public.

And no one can explain why you can’t use private health to see a private ED. There’s all this empty ED space...

 

[Gethelred]

Drawing parallels between a health system and a public broadcaster is nonsense, they are nothing alike

Our health system has a few problems but on the whole it is mostly fine. Any major restructure and nationalisation will inevitably involve substantial tax increases to fund it, which is pretty hard to justify when we already have some of the best across-the-board health outcomes of any country in the world.

There are a few things in this country that need fundamental structural reform, but the health funding model isn't anywhere near the top of the list.

The parallel I drew is not concerning what they do, but the narratives around the services they offer. Perhaps if you considered it instead of dismissing it out of hand, you'd see something more worthy of your attention.

 

[DaRick]

I’ve read that if we divert all private healthcare spending into Medicare we’d save $3 Billion annually on the national healthcare bill and cut waiting times across the board.

It’s just we’ve been sold a con that we need private healthcare.

Like how parents think that the best education comes from private schools, whereas public students are academically superior to private students after first year of uni.

Basically the power of the Private Health companies and Doctor’s and Specialist’s lobby groups is the only thing holding it back.

90% of the secondary school game involves getting the right score. There's little benefit in being the top student in biomedical science when you've missed out on medicine.

When it comes to schooling, you get what you pay for, you get entry to a selective school, you move to an area that allows you entry to a good public school, or you're left with the dregs of society.

They say that the cream rises to the top, but so does sh*t.

As someone who had the 'pleasure' of attending a crappy state school and then a much-better private school, I'd aver that the students who top the class in many (most?) state schools would perform well in any educational environment.

However, I certainly wouldn't give my old state school much credit RE their academic success.

 

[Rotayjay]

So how much more tax are you prepared to pay, up 20% extra, more?

Something of that nature yes. Whatever it would cost for Medicare to cover everything neccessary.

 

[Rotayjay]

90% of the secondary school game involves getting the right score. There's little benefit in being the top student in biomedical science when you've missed out on medicine.

When it comes to schooling, you get what you pay for, you get entry to a selective school, you move to an area that allows you entry to a good public school, or you're left with the dregs of society.

They say that the cream rises to the top, but so does sh*t.

I'm not a parent myself but I am quite frightened by the idea that if a kid goes to a disadvantaged public school the disadvantage 'rubs off' on the child through badly behaved friends who will encourage them to take drugs, drop out at the minimum age etc.

Getting off topic though. Has anyone done a respectable study on what the Australian health sector would look like if it was totally publicly funded?

 

[Taylor]

Something of that nature yes. Whatever it would cost for Medicare to cover everything neccessary.

Doesn't it do that now?

 

[Rotayjay]

The reason my heart says health should be nationalised (even if my head says it won't happen) is basically: why should medical resources be allocated towards patients who can pay a lot of money rather than patients who need more medical resources? Do I think medicine should be a free market like fast food or law firms? No.

 

[Rotayjay]

Doesn't it do that now?

It does, but not well enough. Australia needs to decide how much tax it wants to pay to get a better Medicare (not much, it seems).

 

[Taylor]

It does, but not well enough. Australia needs to decide how much tax it wants to pay to get a better Medicare (not much, it seems).

Where does it need to improve?
I didn't think we had a large number, if any, of people who are dying waiting for regular and routine treatment.

 

[Kwality]

Doesn't it do that now?

You'll always have the likes of Warwick Capper rocking up to an ED expecting priority treatment.

Having had a couple of work care related incidents involving hospitalisation, I'd say sick people are well catered for.

 

[Rotayjay]

Where does it need to improve?
I didn't think we had a large number, if any, of people who are dying waiting for regular and routine treatment.

It needs to be quicker and involve less wastage as outlined by others in the thread

 

[Caesar]

It needs to be quicker and involve less wastage as outlined by others in the thread

Australia already has one of the least wasteful health systems in the world

Waiting times for elective surgery and emergency are nothing exceptional - usually roughly around the OECD average - but I would argue the marginal value of improving waiting times is pretty low.

 

[Pessimistic]

The way I see it, Medicare is for serious or life threatening stuff, Private is for less serious elective like knees which is quality of life or being able to earn a crust.
Insuring your income stream as it were

 

[Rotayjay]

The way I see it, Medicare is for serious or life threatening stuff, Private is for less serious elective like knees which is quality of life or being able to earn a crust.
Insuring your income stream as it were

Pretty much what I have observed anecdotally (as a person who thankfully is in good health and who does not work in the health sector)

 

[Crankyhawk]

How much shorter would the bread lines be if all those surgeons, nurses and beds weren't used up by the private system?

There’s a lot of dead time from what I’ve seen in (for example) operating theatre which means less cases done per session, private minimises the dead times due to profit motive (this was more than 10 years ago so there may have been efficiency improvements since ). In public there’s minimal consultant presence on weekends/ after hours and so lacking that the ward jhmo are averse to after hours discharges leading to clogged ED