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NEAFL 2015

Discussion in 'NEAFL Board' started by billybunter, Jan 1, 2015.

  1. smy1305

    smy1305 Premiership Player

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    Not sure you understand the constraints the AFL clubs play under and also their mechanisms re recruiting - they aren't trying to recruit a team that can "win" the NEAFL believe it or not...
    And Gubby would be spewing bc like any person you put a side on the paddock you want them to win or at worst compete - UWS did neither.
     
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  2. billybunter

    billybunter Team Captain

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    What will the supporters say or do about this above situation? - A big fat nothing - Until you and they demand a difference in attitude nothing will change and while you accept compromise then they wont change a thing. It wont stop me attending the Hornets games and supporting my NEAFL side, in fact I like it when we beat the AFL Reserve sides just as much as their supporters hate losing to us. I guess the good part is, that after the win or on some occasions loss, I don't have to then go and watch a senior lose as well - I guess this is why you think the Competition is compromised as my footy side (every week) plays its best footy at all times (so for me there is no compromise), as the game was meant to be played. Our boys are not controlled by politics or pecking orders, they play for their Club, their Jumper and their very grateful Supporters. We support the things that footy means to most players played by real semi professional/hobby players at a Club who has a want to succeed.

    While its great to agree to disagree - For the record, who said anything about the AFL Clubs Reserve sides winning the NEAFL Competition - Its now very clear since they cleaned out the Non competitive Non AFL sides from the original set up, they now quite clearly can't. It would be good if the Suns and Lions players who have been recruited and play within this NEAFL Competition each week, show that they can at least compete, as you have great pleasure in reminding us all that the NEAFL Comp is a show piece for recruiting, if this is so, why do the drafted and rookie players from these AFL sides struggle to get a kick let alone stand out within this comp - No pressure from below makes the AFL Senior Sides complacent and there is plenty of that up here above the Tweed River at the moment.

    Until Fans start demanding that the current club recruiters do their job and search and select real players from the many leagues around Australia and not fall for the over rated under 18 industry, when clubs pass on draft picks in both the overall draft and then also the Rookie draft, then finish down the bottom in the senior AFL competition and also in the reserve competition - then it tells me they don't understand the constraints these poor judges put their clubs in.

    Good luck to both the Hornets and the NT Thunder on Saturday evening - I am sure for those of you who attend or tune in, you will find it NEAFL Footy at its uncompromised best. Unless you claim travelling 4 & 1/2 hours from Brisbane, in a cramped economy seat and play in front of approximately 8,000 one eyed Territorians who just want to swat every Hornet they can find, in 31 degree humid sweaty conditions, against one of the most skilled football sides in Australia as a compromised situation - Nah, that's just footy and the more of it the better, its what makes us stronger and better people in the overall scheme of things.

    To put things in perspective - Somewhere in the State were our great game of AFL Football was born, Sides in Victoria will travel up to 150kms to play in a Grand Final this weekend and although its pain for them to travel that far to play and watch the game they will think its great, because its a Grand Final, these sides may play in front of 6-8,000 fans or more and think its great, because its a Grand Final, it will probably pouring with rain and every one in attendance will think its great, because its a Grand Final.

    Here in the NEAFL our two most Northern Sides will square off 4,000 plus Klms from where it all started and I don't give a Rats Rectum what anyone else thinks, I know its great, because its our Grand Final

    See you all next year - No gloating or no excuses, may the best side win.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2015
  3. stuyd1

    stuyd1 Club Legend

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    I have been reading all these comments and must say I agree with some and disagree with some of the comments made by all posters.
    Im not going to enter into the debate as there are so many issues and variables.
    The difficult thing is, what actions need to be implemented to improve the situation ???
    Seriously, having 7 semi professional clubs competing against 4 full time professional clubs over a geographically area that includes NT, QLD, SYDNEY AND THE ACT,,is just to hard. Regardless of the AFL reserves teams in the comp, it is a credit to the local club sides to be more then competitive.
    Am thrilled that Aspley and the Thunder have made the Grand Final.
     
  4. stuyd1

    stuyd1 Club Legend

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    So on another note,,,, one more chance to tip a winner.. I invite you posters to make a prediction for the grand final ; Aspley or the Thunder guys ?
     
  5. stuyd1

    stuyd1 Club Legend

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    My Tip,
    well my initial thoughts are The Thunder to win with a home ground advantage and some 8000 plus Territorians cheering them on.
    But, Aspley defeated them up there in Round 5 this season, they are primed at the moment with a number of players experienced in a Grand Final and just have a never say die attitude simply because of the coaching ability of the legend John Blair, Iam tipping Aspley to win another Premiership by 8 points.
     
  6. billybunter

    billybunter Team Captain

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    Too close to call stuyd1 - I am going for the double points and a return trip to the NT next weekend - My call is a DRAW.
     
  7. Smurftown#11

    Smurftown#11 Senior List

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    This is ridiculous. You don't recruit a team to win the 2's, you recruit a team to win the 1's. You don't fill up your list full of former 1's players who are deemed not good enough by all 18 AFL clubs just to compete in the 2's, you recruit players to gain experience in the 2's until they are either deemed good enough for 1's or not good enough to make the big league and send them packing.

    You watch the 2's of any AFL team when the 1's have huge injury issues. The 2's get smashed because the potentially AFL level players that were playing 2's and pushing for a spot all of a sudden are playing 1's, leaving you with only inexperienced kids in the 2's. But, amazingly, AFL teams don't throw the baby out with the bath water, they just get on with the job of getting their list to a state that can win the 1's, they don't decide the next year to boot out the young kids and get in better reserve graders.

    It would be the same as if Redland went, hey our 1's didn't make the finals this year because of a spate of injuries, so we had a weak 2's while most played 1's. You know what, lets get rid of those kids in the 2's who might develop and recruit a bunch of blokes who we know aren't good enough for 1's but will do really well in the 2's....GENIUS!

    You don't build first grade culture by recruiting 2nd grade players that can't cut it at senior level anymore, which is basically what you're saying Brisbane and Gold Coast should do. Especially when your list size is restricted.
     
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  8. smy1305

    smy1305 Premiership Player

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    Yeah I think BB conveniently forgets that AFL clubs are banking on having 30 blokes capable of cutting it at AFL senior level, with another 8 guys making up the list of potential players - this means they will most weeks use 10-12 top ups, kids who are in the State 18's and not affiliated with a NEAFL side in particular or just the better young blokes from QAFL/ Nth / Sth teams. If the AFL club has NO injuries then the NEAFL side will have 16 listed players but EVERY injury in the club actually affects the NEAFL side so 10 injuries to NEAFL/AFL players means 10 out of the best possible NEAFL team filled with some very immature players at times.
    The non AFL teams actually create lists with 38 or so blokes who they hope can all play at senior NEAFL level. Think there is a significant difference right there. For UWS to belt most sides with these constraints for the best part of the year is quite amazing and just shows how good these 1st rd draftees actually are.
     
  9. billybunter

    billybunter Team Captain

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    Smurftown,

    I think you are missing the points raised by me in the least, no one has said get rid of the kids that cant play in the NEAFL, my point was if they are seen to be good enough to eventually play senior AFL Footy, then they should at least to be able to play at the NEAFL level - There are not too kids that get second chances in Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth if they don't show anything in the VFL, SANFL and WAFL, these competitions as its been pointed out by the pessimists on this board are a lot tougher than the NEAFL Competition, but here in Qld for some reason we just keep giving kids opportunities who quite clearly are not good enough, the Suns to their credit went out and recruited some experience last year, Raines (funnily enough a delist from the Lions wtf), Saad, Bucksbey and a few others who all got a game at the senior level throughout the year and apart from Raines (who has retired) have been resigned for next year. This is the path that should be travelled in my opinion when it is not working with a total youth policy, as it also helps the young group coming through to learn how to win with experience around them, but unfortunately the Suns again IMO have got a list of players who's majority have been tried and they have failed to improve the club from day one (apart from GAJ and a core of about 10 others). They won a few more games than the Lions in both grades so this puts the Lions in even worse shape again IMO even the Lions used one of their coaches this season who kicked probably the most goals for the team for the year. So in this case why are the recruited players not stepping up???? In the Suns case Lappin & Fraser, if selected would not be list cloggers IMO but a very helpful tool in helping create a winning culture from the bottom up, but no they are playing down the road in the QAFL Competition WTF it is not as if there is 20 players playing in the Suns side that will be recruited!!!!!!!!!. As far as the Lions go well, they are just catching their tail recruiting players to fill the exodus of players, the like of Adcock, who can play being shown the door and others who are sick of losing and who are now looking for better opportunities.

    QLD AFL currently IMO is a basket case and the supporter base up here will drop off like rain (as the signs are showing it has started already) unless the clubs take ownership of their poor Board of Management and in some case Coaching decisions and turn these around.

    My whole argument has been all along, the NEAFL Competition is not compromised as a whole, as the teams that want to compete week in and week out do just that, I get sick of posters on here and on the Suns and Lions NEAFL pages putting sh-t on the competition that their reserve sides are playing in because they are the one's that can not compete with the required skill level as they constantly get touched up each week by better run and better coached local football sides, without the millions of AFL $$$$$$ that get pumped into these AFL owned money pits every year.
     
  10. billybunter

    billybunter Team Captain

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    There is my argument in a nutshell the competition is not compromised the AFL Clubs are - They (the Giants) can win most games against the other AFL reserve sides and the Suburban sides in the home and away season, then they get poleaxed and lose against a suburban side in week 1 of the finals - Everyone forgets that the NEAFL was set up for them and their 3 cousins - If they don't want the silverware then that's their loss, we along with the other suburban sides will gladly have it, as that's why play and support footy to ultimately win the Premiership Flag and with tongue in cheek that's no brag!!!!!!!!!
     
  11. damochandler

    damochandler Brownlow Medallist

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    The stand alone afl teams were created so the afl clubs control when and where these players that don't play seniors. Some take it seriously ie Sydney. The others half heartedly do really. It's not great for the comp. especially when teams want use these academy players when the afl clubs aren't playing the afl clubs are quick to put the kibosh on it
     

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  12. smy1305

    smy1305 Premiership Player

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    Exactly Damo - that's just one of the "anomalies" with the comp. Is what it is I suppose and appreciate frustrating for clubs who are legit in their efforts to win the comp. How a competition can't be compromised BB is beyond me when nearly half the sides in it couldn't give a flying fk about whether they win or lose is something I'm still trying to work out????
    Guy like Eric I think you will find Damo, due to his workload and physique this year (plus various injuries) was being closely monitored for workload and playing for the State team and the Lions were the #1 priorities - Aspley unfortunately had to play 2nd fiddle to this.
    Out of interest, I know he kicked a few, did he play alright as well??
     
  13. Tuggie

    Tuggie Draftee

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    Last edited: Sep 17, 2015
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  14. Arwib

    Arwib Club Legend

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    Wow I did not think Ainslie would be the ones to pull the pin
     
  15. RivaReena

    RivaReena Draftee

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    UWS were always going to lose on the weekend, they need to ensure all listed players return from their AFLPA enforced break at the same time for the 2016 Preseason, if they continued on to the GF all the listed players would start 2 weeks behind the senior listed players that finished with the AFL last weekend!

    They did it in 2013 when they rolled out 19 players for a final and then rolled over to ensure all players would resume at the same time for Pre-season.

    The coach and managers talk a big game for the "integrity" of the comp, but it was a dead cert they would lose on the weekend, my Sportsbet account can attest to that!

    Their NEAFL team is in place to develop AFL players, as if they would allow a NEAFL "final" impact on an AFL pre-season...
     
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  16. smy1305

    smy1305 Premiership Player

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    And the only reason that the swans have been fair dinkum about it all since its conception is because their AFL side has been playing finals!
     
  17. smy1305

    smy1305 Premiership Player

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    Certainly reading the article it sounds like they didn't want their club to be bastardised for any reason by calling it a merged name or even be playing under the name of Canberra with their footy club financing the operation. Obviously feel their history is more important.
    Would Eastlake be looking to continue post 2016? If not then Ainslie would be have been the last man standing anyway. maybe they will be asked at the end of next season?
     
  18. justabaraker

    justabaraker All Australian

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    Remember that I don't have inside mail on this - we live 400km away and I have only seen 4 or 5 ACT games this year......

    But it sure looks as if the AFL wants to have an ACT model along the lines of the NSW model with Sydney Uni. That is, one team that the talent will get funnelled through in conjunction with the academies. With enough sweeteners from the AFL to make it worth their while. My guess is that Sydney Uni are getting good value from the position they have taken on.

    Which leaves us all wondering what it means for you banana benders...three community Qld teams, apparently all wanting to press on in NEAFL. Will the AFL try to create some sort of one composite elite team ?

    PS - I baggs a front row seat in the grandstand if SMY and BillyB find themselves barracking for the same Frankenstein club !!
     
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  19. smy1305

    smy1305 Premiership Player

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    Hoho JB. :)

    Cannot see less than 3 teams in seq. Basically the numbers that play afl in qld are a lot higher than either Sydney or act. Southport is the feeder for Australia's 7th biggest city, brisbane is serviced from the north and south and all 3 sides go okay. Makes sense 1 team in both Canberra and Sydney IMO, 1 in the NT, 4 afl teams so 10 teams.
    Btw will go and have a look at the QAFL prelim this weekend, good club based footy in an untainted comp... ;)
     
  20. billybunter

    billybunter Team Captain

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    Justa,

    Seems you are quite correct on your opinion on this, it is a shame that another original founding member of the NEAFL has decided to move back to a more comfortable position within the structure of their territory. A 10 team competition now seem the perfect number to actually finally run an even home and away competition, If this means the AFL sides don't want to buy into the finals, unless their seniors are also playing finals the big deal - This should be now, a no excuses completion moving forward.

    An Elite team in Qld will not happen - Unless it is a forced AFL decision or one of the 3 clubs runs out of money, NEAFL footy is a good club revenue raiser to date to keep the sales in the bar, restaurant's and poker machines kicking over and this is something very rare that 3 Qld Clubs can out perform the ACT and Sydney support base for AFL Football.

    To finish on your PS - You will never see me and SMY1305 ever barracking for the same side, as my thoughts has his true side as either playing in the QAFL prelim final this weekend and or his NEAFL side drinking piss in Thailand again and having another month or two off before the season starts again - My side as you know is playing for a grand final flag again in the hardest place in Australia by none to win a game of footy let alone the holy grail - But may the force be with the higher finisher and no arguments from me for this, but we have always played the cards where ever they are dealt and a dealt royal flush in Darwin, to trump the home side will do me on Saturday Night.
     
  21. billybunter

    billybunter Team Captain

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    R,R,

    That is why there will never, never, ever be an AFL Reserve competition in Australia, that is also why the local clubs will take the silver cup and the cudos that goes along with it, AFL reserves sides are great cannon fodder to steel the real fair dinkum NEAFL teams to premiership glory, long live the game, the honest sides who play to their best ability and the eventual Premiers of all its competitions. Those who don't contribute are doing this great game a huge dis-service.
     
  22. billybunter

    billybunter Team Captain

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    smy1305,

    You ask on Hippy performance last weekend, IMO he will get a draft spot this year, I would say at around the Lions 4 - round pick but probably on priority, but based on his performance on Saturday "no" there where again IMO better draft able players than Hippy on the park on that day from both sides, My prediction is based on the observation the that AFL has through its pathway program, put obscene amounts of $$$$$ to bring in the anointed 17 -18 Year olds for their God given right to be ready made AFL listed players , based on how they play against the other 17 - 18 year old Non anointed without God given right to be selected - If the game was played exclusively by 18 year olds then this would be a great tool for recruitment. But plain and simple it is not and we assume guys of this age group can handle the riggers of playing the game, against men who have been and are also still playing for their livelihoods, it just does not compute IMO - Are there better than Hippy and many others who will get drafted this year running around in nearly every 2nd, 3rd & 4th tier League in competitions around Australia? My answer is yes probably 100's of them - Will they ever get an opportunity? - Probably not, unless "The Recruit" regains or even gets some credibility or some one, from an AFL club is in the right place at the right time to capture the moment and put their selection credibility on the line. So until this happens nothing will change and while the Club recruiters don't search under every rock for the Diamond in the rough and again as it is every year most rely on the Kevin Sheehan's of the world to tell us, who in his and their opinion is the best new talent in our game - Then the game is compromised from the top as we get who we are told to take via a pecking order and when this happens, their Bosses (us the club supporters) we cant act, but only turn our back on the game, We need to have some control of who plays and who does not play and not rely on deals done for players who are and never will be up to AFL level, are we seeing the best at our clubs? - I think not, why? Who cares because we just accept what is given to us!!!!!!!!!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2015
  23. smy1305

    smy1305 Premiership Player

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    The thought process is that he may go top 10 BB. Not many 203cm mobile blokes around. Need to put your futures hat on. Not judge how good he is as a 17yr old.
    But fair enough, thanks for the opinion. I'm also a believer in recruiting more 20+ yr olds. And on this u may have the first 2 brothers drafted in the same draft who aren't twins. The wagners. (I think this is correct)
     
  24. Lifes a Beach1

    Lifes a Beach1 Team Captain

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    Gents, the fact is the Major Pillar of Equalisation, The Draft is a failure. As a mechanism that gets players on to lists it works but so could zoning, or even just a free market.As a mechanism for getting the best players to the bottom sides it fails miserably.The archetypal player of the modern era is the 190cm contested ball player both on the ground and in the air, he is like the Holy Grail of recruitment but Nat Fyffe who is this player of his generation was drafted at 20,so why was he missed? Luke Parker not as tall but similar drafted at 40, why was he missed? Have a look at this years All Australian side and you will see more plus 20 picks than top 5.
    Why is this?
    They are drafted too young, the industry is full of people who don't know what they are doing and the game itself has poor pathways to the draft.
    Does the AFL realise it is a failure? I am not sure, instead of asking the people who fail miserably at this task perhaps they should go to the Universities and start analysing the Data.Data such as player retention, average games, psychological testing etc. I think the average career is 2 years (does the industry think this is acceptable? Would you want to improve this? Get people to understand the 10,000 hours of mastery rule for human beings, maturity rates mentally and physically.
    The other problem is they have created a closed market (except if Eddie needs a show,see The Recruit) and now with Free Agency this will get out of control.They have to now free up options on how clubs can recruit to take the pressure of this closed market.
    Paul Roos has said a number of times to take the 2.5 Billion and put it into feeder leagues, he is very correct, it would also create pathways for Footballers to go post their playing careers if they wanted.
    So what I am saying is to construct feeder leagues to a very high level and draft from there.
    My second thought is that why when the clubs are so bad at drafting high picks do they spend so much energy and time to get those picks, lose games, give players away it is truly a strange game we follow.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2015
  25. 2010premier

    2010premier All Australian

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    LAB you make some interesting points there. The AFL would argue that they have feeder leagues being primarily the TAC cup as well as the VFL,WAFL,SANFL, NEAFL, and the rep programs. Your point of the best 17 year old underage player not necessarily being the best adult player is undeniable. Raising the draft age as a means to counter this has long been debated. The counter arguments to a higher draft age include losing talent to other sports, not wanting to hold back "elite" players that are ready etc.

    Most involved in grassroots footy would argue for more money to be allocated to it but when you see county footy clubs operating out of tin sheds with scant regard for development etc and paying blokes $1000 bucks a game (and flying them in) you can see why the AFL wants to control things. Academies, TAC cup, draft etc are all controlled by the AFL and I really don't see them empowering clubland by providing them with funds and by making them the breeding ground any time soon.
     
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