Review Neagle

[EVERLAST]

Because he is the last of the 'ready tall forwards we have on the list..

Laycock is injured, Still is not ready, Hille is injured, Carlisle is not ready, Hurley is a defender, Gumby can't do it alone, M.Williams is not a KPP but merely a third tall.

Anyone else?

He is ready to play AFL. Might not be the best going around but he can certainly put in a contest..

Kicking 1.4 has put something into your mind? He was hitting the scoreboard at least..

Great to see you all line up like some sort of intervention.

Kicking 1.4 for a player in his 4th year at the club, when he's spent an eternity in the VFL against kids and semi professionals isn't exactly something I would boast about.

As I repeat, we need someone who has more determination, puts his body on the line for his team and gives our young brigade confidence when charging up the field.

We played WCE, not Saints or Geelong.

How hard is it to kick 3 - 4 against a bottom of the table interstate team at Etihad of all places.

1.4, any FF would be happy with that.

 

[stay true]

This isn't a question of him being on our list, in our senior team however, raises many questions.

Whats a true FF these days? Most of the top contributors currently in our game hold their position on the 50m arc Franklin, Brown, N Riewoldt, Pavlich.

The goalkicking table is currently littered with smaller forwards actually.

A true full forward is Fevola. That's the category of player Neagle sits in. Forget about Franklins, Riewoldts, Pavlich's and Brown's, you're comparing apples with oranges and considering those 4 are the best 4 CHF's in the game you're obviously going to be disillusioned with Neagle.

One, mature bodied and ready to go, yes!

Did I mention CHF? No
Did I mention CHB? No
Did I mention FB? No

What position would be your first preference come draft time? More midfielders? Another ruckman?

So after concluding that true full forwards aren't that useful, you want us to pluck a ready made full forward that is ready to go and kick "40-50 goals" in the draft? Not gonna happen. Midfielders is the number 1 priority.

 

[Yoda_]

Great to see you all line up like some sort of intervention.

Kicking 1.4 for a player in his 4th year at the club, when he's spent an eternity in the VFL against kids and semi professionals isn't exactly something I would boast about.

As I repeat, we need someone who has more determination, puts his body on the line for his team and gives our young brigade confidence when charging up the field.

We played WCE, not Saints or Geelong.

How hard is it to kick 3 - 4 against a bottom of the table interstate team at Etihad of all places.

1.4, any FF would be happy with that.

EVERLAST

While I do begin to think that Neagle may not be a good player for the Essendon Football Club. He is the best we have got a the moment, and I do agree, he could have kicked 3 or 4 goals on Saturday night (1.4 proves this), but obviously he had an off night.

He is usually a wonderful set shot at goal (Like Lloyd was), do you think Lloyd kicked straight every week? I don't.

Point is, he was making the effort to have a shot at goal and putting himself out their, the results just werent flowing for him on Saturday evening.. As for recruiting more KPF's. Still will come in and you will have the same goal kicking problems.

Oh well, EVERLAST.

I think you should go, turn the computer off and have a good night's sleep before you have to get up in the morning..

 

[EVERLAST]

Midfielder's, a quality one at that..

Luke Parker perhaps??

And we have to recruit another young midfielder?

My suggestion is we go for slightly more mature players in the 20-23 age bracket who just missed out on selection but are excelling in their local leagues.

There would honestly have to be 1000s out there ready to die for their shot at the big time.

And again, one big marking forward also.

Back on a KPP, Leigh Brown has found himself at Collingwood and is doing reasonably well and not letting anyone down, because he's making the most of his chances.

Not highly skilled, but determined enough for his opponents to take notice.

 

[EVERLAST]

EVERLAST

While I do begin to think that Neagle may not be a good player for the Essendon Football Club. He is the best we have got a the moment, and I do agree, he could have kicked 3 or 4 goals on Saturday night (1.4 proves this), but obviously he had an off night.

He is usually a wonderful set shot at goal (Like Lloyd was), do you think Lloyd kicked straight every week? I don't.

Point is, he was making the effort to have a shot at goal and putting himself out their, the results just werent flowing for him on Saturday evening.. As for recruiting more KPF's. Still will come in and you will have the same goal kicking problems.

Oh well, EVERLAST.

I think you should go, turn the computer off and have a good night's sleep before you have to get up in the morning..

No thanks, always plenty in the tank.

I like the look of Matthew Little from Williamstown, former Hawk.

Ok, he's a smaller forward, more of a LeCras type if anything, but he HAS shown in the VFL he's ready to step up and was never given a go at HFC with Roughy and Buddy there.

Getting some numbers and some rumours suggest he wants another go at the top level. Neagle can't even replicate this in the VFL seniors.

It couldn't hurt to bring him in, especially if you're beginning to feel that Neagle won't cut it at Essendon.

Nick Sautner, feel sorry the bloke never had his chance and is still producing at his age. The guy is built like an animal.

 

[yaco55]

Neagle needs to have a look at Le Cras' highlight tape from tonight. A good 30mins of leading,doubling back etc.

When Neagle can do this for a whole game, and people kick it to him, he'll start to find the confidence to play like a gun and kick 3+ goals every match.

This has always been an issue with Neagle - Multiple leading. It is primarily fitness and footy smarts but have noticed this issue is exacerbated if he feels his opponent has his measure.

Last night ( partly ) was a return of the bad Neagle. He didnt feature at all in the first half and didnt get to enough contests - He needs a more consistent workrate - In saying that; his second half was solid.

 

[bombre-boy]

And we have to recruit another young midfielder? Yes and a good one at that.

My suggestion is we go for slightly more mature players in the 20-23 age bracket who just missed out on selection but are excelling in their local leagues.
We have already done that....marigliani...Who they have refused to play.

There would honestly have to be 1000s out there ready to die for their shot at the big time.

And again, one big marking forward also.

Back on a KPP, Leigh Brown has found himself at Collingwood and is doing reasonably well and not letting anyone down, because he's making the most of his chances.
He is also in one of the best skilled and disiplined teams, who have a decnet coach and a proper structure....this does help.

Not highly skilled, but determined enough for his opponents to take notice.

....

 

[Longy413]

During the week, he should be putting more hours at the club to get himself right as a professional footballer.

How do you know what he does during the week?

Or do you in fact know at all, what he does during the week?

Ball drop all wrong last night.

Yep, that's all it was.

We all know he's a much better kick than that.
He showed sticky hands again and he spent many more minutes on the park than he has in the past.

His timing seemed to be a little off as well, but he broke packs and didn't get outmarked.

He can kick, he can mark and he can get the ball at ground level. He's starting to cover more ground. Yep, sounds a failure.

 

[The Donners]

We all know he's a much better kick than that.
He showed sticky hands again and he spent many more minutes on the park than he has in the past.

Perhaps he's going blind...

 

[silk]

I have always said that neagle is the kind of forward who needs good direct delivery. He can beat most defenders on the lead, but doestn' seem able to create his own goals like some other forwards can. In saying that, if out midfield can improve neagle will improve, but if the midfield doesn't improve over the next couple of years, neagle will be gone.

 

[Not a Wellman]

Didn't think we even tried to use him enough. So many times we didn't honour his leads last night. I hope we play him for the rest of the year out of full forward and up the ground at times like he did against melbourne when hille needs a rest at full forward.

Just keep giving him a chance this year we have nothing to lose by doing so.

 

[chris2269]

I know I said I wasn't going to post again but this thread has hit a nerve

I can't believe the excuses and leniency being shown for Neagle after his 2 performances. I recall saying much the same things about Willo after his 4 games at Essendon and being shot down in flames.

I stated that the problem is not your forwards it is you midfield, and that with better disposal coming out of your midfield then you will get a better return off your forwards. It seems poor old Neagle is being felt sorry for as he couldn't go and gather his own ball and needed the ball handed to him on a silver platter. But when I mentioned the same about Willo I was told he shouldn't have to be given perfect delivery to have an impact etc etc, when I mentioned Willo led countless times but was being ignored I was told he should have lead to better positions....it seems Essendon players get special treatment from their fans whereas ex-hawthorn trade bait get shown very little support.

Willo would have kicked bags of 5+ in both games Neagle played in had he played as the main forward mark my word.

I can't believe the lack of faith and confidence that has been shown to Willo by Knights and the other coaches. 4 games to prove yourself at a new club - 4 freaking games are you kidding me?

I'm not buying the whole injury Essendon is trying to spin - Willo was injured in round 4 - had he needed the surgery Essendon should have given it to him at the time, not begin to question it now some 12 or so weeks later. They have continued to play him off/on at Bendigo with the injury yet he can't get a game at Essendon. What is the difference? A half fit Willo is still far more dangerous than most of your other forwards.

Willo would be guaranteed the oppositions best defender if he was played and would provide some much needed direction/experience in your forward line - I don't notice any other premiership players there...

Watching Le Cras the other night reminded me so much off Willo - extremely intelligent footballers that know how to read the ball and lead well and a dead eye kick. Dunstall made the point on TV that Essendon was lacking that sort of a player in their team that night - a player capable of winning the game off their own boot - I'm telling you given his chance that is Willo.

He is NOT going to star at Bendigo, he actually finds it far harder playing for the 2's than he does AFL - he has had to adapt his pace and skill level to that of the people he is playing around and is finding it difficult to lead as while he is used to doing 1-2 quick short leads, he is finding himself doing 4-5 before the ball finally makes the way into the forward line due to the skill errors, lack of speed and awareness of the midfield around him.

I don't know what Essendon are playing at - they had two options with Willo as far as I was concerned- put him in surgery and let him get fit for next year or let him play the year out in the seniors and see what he has to offer....It seems they have stupidly and unexplainably taken the 3rd option - leave him in Bendigo for no real purpose at all

 

[EVERLAST]

How do you know what he does during the week?

Or do you in fact know at all, what he does during the week?

Well, apart from not being around him 24/7, I can honestly say I've seen him sucking on a Boost juice at least dozen times when I do a regular shop there, and we're talking randomly, be it any day of the week.

This goes way back when he had those blond tips in his hair.

Regardless, the conversation has progressed dramtically since then, but thank you for your intervention.



Yep, that's all it was.

We all know he's a much better kick than that.
He showed sticky hands again and he spent many more minutes on the park than he has in the past.

His timing seemed to be a little off as well, but he broke packs and didn't get outmarked.

He can kick, he can mark and he can get the ball at ground level. He's starting to cover more ground. Yep, sounds a failure.

Only picked to give us anything up front, certainly hasn't warranted selection on form alone. We held onto Johns as he could kick, break packs and not often outmarked, yet the same frustrations came to light amongst the Bomber faithful.

Yet to be convinced, we'll agree to disagree on this one and happy for all to line up to give their 'opinion'

 

[stay true]

I know I said I wasn't going to post again but this thread has hit a nerve
[...]

I totally agree with you mate, and every other post you've made here about Willo. Unfortunately a lot of people think the transition from AFL to VFL is black and white and assume that someone who's done quite a lot at AFL level will dominate even more so at VFL level. I don't think it works like that and neither does Leigh Matthews (he wrote an article about it some months ago).

I'd much, much, much rather have Williams in the team and have Lonergan moved into the midfield for much longer than he has been used this year. Same goes with Zaharakis.

Also, if he's still playing in the two's then his ankle issue can't really be used as an excuse. If he's fit enough to play, play him in the seniors!

 

[Yoda_]

No thanks, always plenty in the tank.

I like the look of Matthew Little from Williamstown, former Hawk.

Ok, he's a smaller forward, more of a LeCras type if anything, but he HAS shown in the VFL he's ready to step up and was never given a go at HFC with Roughy and Buddy there.

Getting some numbers and some rumours suggest he wants another go at the top level. Neagle can't even replicate this in the VFL seniors.

It couldn't hurt to bring him in, especially if you're beginning to feel that Neagle won't cut it at Essendon.

Nick Sautner, feel sorry the bloke never had his chance and is still producing at his age. The guy is built like an animal.

EVERLAST

You asked why Neagle played on the weekend..

I gave you an answer.

Only picked to give us anything up front, certainly hasn't warranted selection on form alone. We held onto Johns as he could kick, break packs and not often outmarked, yet the same frustrations came to light amongst the Bomber faithful.

Yet to be convinced, we'll agree to disagree on this one and happy for all to line up to give their 'opinion'

Glad you cleared up my answer (your question)

 

[Towno78]

I know I said I wasn't going to post again but this thread has hit a nerve

I can't believe the excuses and leniency being shown for Neagle after his 2 performances. I recall saying much the same things about Willo after his 4 games at Essendon and being shot down in flames.

I stated that the problem is not your forwards it is you midfield, and that with better disposal coming out of your midfield then you will get a better return off your forwards. It seems poor old Neagle is being felt sorry for as he couldn't go and gather his own ball and needed the ball handed to him on a silver platter. But when I mentioned the same about Willo I was told he shouldn't have to be given perfect delivery to have an impact etc etc, when I mentioned Willo led countless times but was being ignored I was told he should have lead to better positions....it seems Essendon players get special treatment from their fans whereas ex-hawthorn trade bait get shown very little support.

Willo would have kicked bags of 5+ in both games Neagle played in had he played as the main forward mark my word.

I can't believe the lack of faith and confidence that has been shown to Willo by Knights and the other coaches. 4 games to prove yourself at a new club - 4 freaking games are you kidding me?

I'm not buying the whole injury Essendon is trying to spin - Willo was injured in round 4 - had he needed the surgery Essendon should have given it to him at the time, not begin to question it now some 12 or so weeks later. They have continued to play him off/on at Bendigo with the injury yet he can't get a game at Essendon. What is the difference? A half fit Willo is still far more dangerous than most of your other forwards.

Willo would be guaranteed the oppositions best defender if he was played and would provide some much needed direction/experience in your forward line - I don't notice any other premiership players there...

Watching Le Cras the other night reminded me so much off Willo - extremely intelligent footballers that know how to read the ball and lead well and a dead eye kick. Dunstall made the point on TV that Essendon was lacking that sort of a player in their team that night - a player capable of winning the game off their own boot - I'm telling you given his chance that is Willo.

He is NOT going to star at Bendigo, he actually finds it far harder playing for the 2's than he does AFL - he has had to adapt his pace and skill level to that of the people he is playing around and is finding it difficult to lead as while he is used to doing 1-2 quick short leads, he is finding himself doing 4-5 before the ball finally makes the way into the forward line due to the skill errors, lack of speed and awareness of the midfield around him.

I don't know what Essendon are playing at - they had two options with Willo as far as I was concerned- put him in surgery and let him get fit for next year or let him play the year out in the seniors and see what he has to offer....It seems they have stupidly and unexplainably taken the 3rd option - leave him in Bendigo for no real purpose at all

I agree with everything you say about Willo, but disagree with your thoughts about the posters on the Essendon board. I don't think they're more lenient on Neagle because he's an Essendon player whilst Willo is only ex-Hawthorn. Many like myself would say the delivery to both Neagle and Willo isn't up to scratch and I'm sure they'd say the same for anyone up there. Whilst on the other hand, many would say Neagle should've done more even with the poor delivery, and I'm sure it was these same posters who shot you down earlier in the year.

 

[yaco55]

IMO the club needs to cut its losses and trade Williams at the end of the year.

He has been languishing at Bendigo for the last 12 weeks - Cant see that he has a furure in the seniors.

 

[Kong]

IMO the club needs to cut its losses and trade Williams at the end of the year.

But he has no trade value.

 

[yaco55]

But he has no trade value.

He could get picked up by another club - Draft pick is irrelevant.

 

[skzm]

he is finding himself doing 4-5 before the ball finally makes the way into the forward line due to the skill errors, lack of speed and awareness of the midfield around him.

Doesnt sound that different to what he'll see in the seniors

 

[Longy413]

Didn't think we even tried to use him enough. So many times we didn't honour his leads last night.

I actually don't think we played him deep enough.

Gumby is a CHF and Neagle is a FF. Our structure just didn't seem right at times and Neagle was often on a HFF.

I stated that the problem is not your forwards it is you midfield, and that with better disposal coming out of your midfield then you will get a better return off your forwards. It seems poor old Neagle is being felt sorry for as he couldn't go and gather his own ball and needed the ball handed to him on a silver platter. But when I mentioned the same about Willo I was told he shouldn't have to be given perfect delivery to have an impact etc etc, when I mentioned Willo led countless times but was being ignored I was told he should have lead to better positions....it seems Essendon players get special treatment from their fans whereas ex-hawthorn trade bait get shown very little support.

Willo would have kicked bags of 5+ in both games Neagle played in had he played as the main forward mark my word.

Normally, your work here is pretty accurate and I'm sure appreciated by most.
But this post reeks of a lack of knowledge of Essendon and pure bias towards someone you have an emotional attachment to.

Neagle is treated more harshly than most on our list by our supporters. So many want him delisted, many more want him out of the side. He's been written off by man.

Fact is, in the last two weeks we have actually kicked winning scores.
Neagle has straightened us up, he's had shots at goal, he's crashed packs and created opportunities for others. All that with limited structure and poor delivery. He has made an impact, a good one.

Neagle in was the right move, it should never have been a choice between Neagle and Williams.

To be honest, I would have played both. But I would have picked Neagle first, it was the right move. Williams has strengths that Neagle doesn't, no doubt. But Williams can't open packs and bring the ball to ground like Neagle does.

We held onto Johns as he could kick, break packs and not often outmarked, yet the same frustrations came to light amongst the Bomber faithful.

Johns is a much different kettle of fish to Neagle. Surely you can see that?

Johns wasn't a good kick, he was highly inconsistent.
Before Saturday night, Neagle's kicking was spot on.

Johns had no lateral movement, Neagle does.

Neagle has a good vertical leap, Johns didn't.

 

[chris2269]

I don't think my post reeks of bias or lack of knowledge - if you ask anyone outside of Essendon about Willo they think it is crazy how Knights has used (or misused) him. Many state he should be out there based on experience alone. As I mentioned he would get the best defender everytime he crosses that white line and that can only mean good things for the likes of Neagle, Gumby etc who will benefit from a lesser defender.

People underestimate Willo's football brain - he leads extremely well and the younger players would learn alot from having him in the forward line with him, I can guarantee you they respect him alot more than Neagle.

I think at this stage Willo would love a trade - he was promised so much from Knights and never got the chance to show Essendon what he can still do. Funnily enough everyone at Hawthorn from the playing group right up to the coaching staff are baffled Essendon actually think they have better forward options than Willo at the moment.

If you take off your glasses for a moment and look at the facts - Willo has proven far more than any of your other forwards at the moment, even if he did nothing in a game he would still demand a good match up on reputation alone. I think Knights was crazy not to bring him in after he kicked 4 against Gold Coast and Essendon lost to Port, the next game was Dreamtime at the G - and Willo would have had a day out.

Longy I understand what you are saying about the differences about Willo and Neagles games - No Willo can't crash through packs, but 9 times out of 10 he will get on a perfect lead and mark the ball in space anyway. Both ways can result in a goal - however at the end of the day whose hands would you rather the ball in? For me it woud be Willo without a shadow of doubt.

 

[table tennis]

I don't think my post reeks of bias or lack of knowledge - if you ask anyone outside of Essendon about Willo they think it is crazy how Knights has used (or misused) him. Many state he should be out there based on experience alone. As I mentioned he would get the best defender everytime he crosses that white line and that can only mean good things for the likes of Neagle, Gumby etc who will benefit from a lesser defender.

People underestimate Willo's football brain - he leads extremely well and the younger players would learn alot from having him in the forward line with him, I can guarantee you they respect him alot more than Neagle.

I think at this stage Willo would love a trade - he was promised so much from Knights and never got the chance to show Essendon what he can still do. Funnily enough everyone at Hawthorn from the playing group right up to the coaching staff are baffled Essendon actually think they have better forward options than Willo at the moment.

If you take off your glasses for a moment and look at the facts - Willo has proven far more than any of your other forwards at the moment, even if he did nothing in a game he would still demand a good match up on reputation alone. I think Knights was crazy not to bring him in after he kicked 4 against Gold Coast and Essendon lost to Port, the next game was Dreamtime at the G - and Willo would have had a day out.

Longy I understand what you are saying about the differences about Willo and Neagles games - No Willo can't crash through packs, but 9 times out of 10 he will get on a perfect lead and mark the ball in space anyway. Both ways can result in a goal - however at the end of the day whose hands would you rather the ball in? For me it woud be Willo without a shadow of doubt.

Chris, I respect your view.

I have a view, this is based on the facts.

Williams had a very poor start to the year. Played ok against Carlton, however, was not doing a lot of team orientated things, like defensive pressure. I can handle forwards not having many possesions, as long as thier work rate is up. Williams was lacking in both.

Therefore he deserved to be dropped. You dont deserve a game because you were a gun 4 years ago at a different club.

He then had to go back to bendigo, and prove that he wanted to be part of the Essendon Football club.

Yes he has been injured, and he needs time to get himself right. But until he puts in consistent strong performances at Bendigo, will he be considered for senior selection. From the Selection committee point of view, we do not need another passenger in the seniors. We have too many already.

So until he stops being a passenger at Bendigo, he wont be selected. Which is fair. He was brought in to be more than that.

I however, do not write him off, he may just need to put the boots away for the rest of the year, have what ever he needs fixed, fixed, then come back do a big pre-season and go forward next year.

Hopefully he shows good signs then, and your high opinion of him, will be seen as credible.

Misused or otherwise, He has to adapt to the Essendon Structure, not the otherway around.

Im sure Mark Williams at his best is in our best 22. however he is so far from his best at the moment, its barely comprehendable.

 

[Longy413]

Longy I understand what you are saying about the differences about Willo and Neagles games - No Willo can't crash through packs, but 9 times out of 10 he will get on a perfect lead and mark the ball in space anyway. Both ways can result in a goal - however at the end of the day whose hands would you rather the ball in? For me it woud be Willo without a shadow of doubt.

You are showing bias and you don't understand what I'm saying, otherwise you wouldn't have accused me of wearing glasses.

You're failing to identify that he plays for my club and he wants me to do well.
You failed to identify that I said I want him in the team.

Fact is though, there is no space in our forward line. If you watched Essendon (and I don't blame you for not doing so), then you would no this.

We all want Williams fit and firing and playing good footy. I want him in the side now, I wanted him a few weeks ago.

But I also wanted Neagle in, because he does what he's done the last two weeks. Demands a long ball and doesn't rely on space, because there isn't any.

 

[The Donners]

Johns had no lateral movement, Neagle does.

I can't agree with this, Neagle has an extremely poor turning circle. As I've said before, if the ball hits the ground we're screwed.