Neil Craig

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

You've defeated your own argument perfectly here. Blight took some risks and won grand finals that would probably have been lost if he hadn't made changes at critical times. Craig sat on his hands and lost finals we could and should have won.

Is the Blight method something you can build sustainable success at a club around though? We finished 4th and 5th in those years, had two fantastic Septembers and won two premierships through some exceptionally skillful players, some brilliant coaching and some luck. In neither year would we have been regarded as the best team in the competition. I wouldn't be holding my breath about us (or any club) winning a premiership from 5th again.

 

[NikkiNoo]

You've defeated your own argument perfectly here. Blight took some risks and won grand finals that would probably have been lost if he hadn't made changes at critical times. Craig sat on his hands and lost finals we could and should have won.

If it ain't broke don't fix it, but if it is broke then bloody well fix it. Or, to put it another way, stupidity is doing the same things over and over and expecting a different result.

Ahh but the move that is credited with the win in 1997 was actually suggested by Craig and not Blight. At that stage Craig was only a fitness advisor, but Blight has said before that it was NC that suggested the move of Jarman starting in the middle and then dropping back into the forward line.

 

[Geoffa32]

Ahh but the move that is credited with the win in 1997 was actually suggested by Craig and not Blight. At that stage Craig was only a fitness advisor, but Blight has said before that it was NC that suggested the move of Jarman starting in the middle and then dropping back into the forward line.

So he can be bold when he is not the one under the pump?

He has the ideas but too afraid to instigate them, maybe?

 

[CrowMagnum]

Ahh but the move that is credited with the win in 1997 was actually suggested by Craig and not Blight. At that stage Craig was only a fitness advisor, but Blight has said before that it was NC that suggested the move of Jarman starting in the middle and then dropping back into the forward line.

And Blight had the good sense to listen to him.

As I recall, at least one of the assistant coaches suggested Massie be taken off Franklin (as did just about anyone in the crowd it was so obvious), but pig headeness prevailed.

 

[CrowMagnum]

Is the Blight method something you can build sustainable success at a club around though? We finished 4th and 5th in those years, had two fantastic Septembers and won two premierships through some exceptionally skillful players, some brilliant coaching and some luck. In neither year would we have been regarded as the best team in the competition. I wouldn't be holding my breath about us (or any club) winning a premiership from 5th again.

But the premierships are fact and they are the ultimate way to build up a club and its pride and tradition, and they wouldn't have happened if there wasn't some daring coaching.

Repeated semi and reliminary final losses build nothing except a reputation for choking, and how is Craig's current unimaginative coaching style going to build long term success anyway? That's just far fetched speculation at best.

 

[Tas]

while I will argue that you didn't have a top 4 list, all the points I could make, persuasive or not, still fail the reality test. i.e. you made the top 4, and nothing else I can say will change that.

was your list good enough to make the top 4? what i am going to say, no?

facts is facts.

I understand what you mean and in parts I do agree that you need a list of quality to get anywhere. I always felt our younger kids were better than anyone gave them credit, but I guess everyone is of the same opinion with their own side's young kids.

I think we beat fewer top teams in 2007 than the Crows did, we were just very solid against teams in the lower half of the ladder. I think the only game we dropped to a side in the bottom 8 was to Brisbane during their purple patch in Brisbane.

So I think when it came to the better teams the Crows defence worked pretty hard and contained the better teams very well, it was just a lack of firepower in the end due to some long-term injuries which hurt your side.

It is just hard to quantify why you did well against the better teams but struggled against some pretty ordinary opposition. I think the quality is there but wasn't consistent, wasn't in form.

So while I agree with you that in 2007 the Crows did not show the consistency to be a top 4 team, I think list-wise they are good enough to be a top 4 side and showed they still have what it takes to be competitive against the better teams.

I think we have a lot more work to do in overcoming the top teams than the Crows have in bringing their A game against the weaker sides.

 

[NikkiNoo]

And Blight had the good sense to listen to him.

As I recall, at least one of the assistant coaches suggested Massie be taken off Franklin (as did just about anyone in the crowd it was so obvious), but pig headeness prevailed.

What were the other options?
Rutten - too slow for Franklin and being beaten well by Roughhead.
Bock - Was one of the few defenders actually winning his position. Do you move a guy that is actually effective?
Torney - Not quick enough.
Johncock or McLeod - too small.
McGregor - move one of the few effective forwards back? But again like Bock and Rutten, not quick enough for Franklin.

All I have heard is that Massie should have been moved. I have yet to actually hear who he should have been swapped with and the pluses that they would provide over Massie.

The main issue on that day was our midfielders that were allowing the delivery into Hawthorn's forward line to be almost nothing short of spectacular. Not that one match up, but the lack of accountability of our midfielders. It wasn't helped by the illegal tactics by Hawthorn on that day either.

Changes were made by Craig to try and get things to work at that game. McLeod, who was being beaten pillar to post, was moved into the midfield to try and break his tag. It didn't work. Johncock, who was getting even more molested than McLeod, was staring straight at the umpires when he was being held while the ball was over 50 metres away. The ump was looking straight at him and did nothing. When Johncock was being pushed and tripped over, the umps were also watching and again let it happen. He kept trying to run into our forward line and was being illegally impeded by the Hawthorn players.

 

[NikkiNoo]

But the premierships are fact and they are the ultimate way to build up a club and its pride and tradition, and they wouldn't have happened if there wasn't some daring coaching.

Repeated semi and reliminary final losses build nothing except a reputation for choking, and how is Craig's current unimaginative coaching style going to build long term success anyway? That's just far fetched speculation at best.

Agree that premierships are the ultimate way to build up a club, but repeated finals appearances is also another way to do that. We are in a 16 team comp and I would much rather support a team that consistently makes the finals than one of those that are cellar dwellers consistently instead.

Did you watch Geelong play at all last year? Did you note their game plan? Guess what, it looked eerily like ours when everyone was calling us the crow-bots. If our game plan and style is so unimaginative, then why are most teams trying to emulate us?

Your suggestions that if he changed up how he coaches on game day and belief that it would bring the success you talk about is just as far fetched speculation as well. It's as much as unknown as leaving things as it happens now.

Each coach makes an evaluation every year, and even from game to game on their abilities and what they should do differently. Often changes are made but they are such small things that most people can't see the changes.

Dealing with 22 individuals and getting them to work together is a huge undertaking. I admire any coach that is able to do that. I have coached individuals and small groups of gymnasts and know how difficult they can be to get them to work together. Mind you I was dealing with teenage girls and they defy logic.

I know that many here think I have blinkers when it comes to NC and his coaching. But I have admiration for him in terms of coaching as I have closely watched his coaching style evolve. As a coach myself, I will take the opportunity to watch other coaches at the highest level to observe and take ideas about coaching from them.

 

[macca23]

What were the other options?
Rutten - too slow for Franklin and being beaten well by Roughhead.
Bock - Was one of the few defenders actually winning his position. Do you move a guy that is actually effective?
Torney - Not quick enough.
Johncock or McLeod - too small.
McGregor - move one of the few effective forwards back? But again like Bock and Rutten, not quick enough for Franklin.

All I have heard is that Massie should have been moved. I have yet to actually hear who he should have been swapped with and the pluses that they would provide over Massie.

C'mon Nikki. You haven't mentioned the one player that has been suggested many times by both myself and others on this board.

Stevens.

The logical match-up for Franklin in terms of height, pace and mobility.

He should have started on Franklin. We'll never know now, but I believe that we would have won that game with an appropriate match-up for Franklin (whose confidence just grew and grew when he realized that he was still playing on a midget no matter what he did.)

Massie was the mis-match of the century and the results proved it.

 

[macca23]

Did you watch Geelong play at all last year? Did you note their game plan? Guess what, it looked eerily like ours when everyone was calling us the crow-bots. If our game plan and style is so unimaginative, then why are most teams trying to emulate us?

I agree with your comments re Geelong adopting the Crow-bot style of play, Nikki.

They did, and they did it well.

Did they have better players or did they make the appropriate tactical moves when they had to be made?

Or both?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

But the premierships are fact and they are the ultimate way to build up a club and its pride and tradition, and they wouldn't have happened if there wasn't some daring coaching.

The premierships were absolutely fantastic and Blight is no doubt a genius for pulling it off but let's not be deluded about what they were - an unscripted, unexpected and unplanned smash-n-grab that caught everyone by surprise (including our most one-eyed supporters).

There was no Pagan/Kangaroos apprenticeship served with a string of finals appearances; preliminary final losses; learning, regrouping and improving; capped by 1996 and 1999 triumphs. And at no stage were we premiership favourites - even in grand final week! Our premierships came from nowhere: 12th - 1st - 1st - 12th. They were abnormalities on our chart, not a sign that our club had become a respected, consistent power.

Were these premierships the making of us as a club or were they in a funny way the worst thing that could happen to us? Did the manner of them (being the best September team, as opposed to being the best team) lead to false expectations among supporters, administrators and players and breed an unrealistic and lazy impression about how to achieve success?

Port have gone through a process. Their 2004 triumph was achieved after some bitter finals disappointments - they learned, improved and re-assessed and earned their flag. They won a flag plus a harsh dose of reality about the standards that must be reached to win a premiership. 2001-03 are as important in Port's history as 2004 was. It is no surprise that they returned to the business end of the finals so soon.

Our success was flash in the pan and afterwards we returned straight back to where we had been. Our club doesn't have a history to follow for consistent success, simply memories of twin miracles that we will never be able to repeat.

Repeated semi and reliminary final losses build nothing except a reputation for choking, and how is Craig's current unimaginative coaching style going to build long term success anyway? That's just far fetched speculation at best.

We've picked up a minor premiership, being the best performed team in the minor round. Obviously without a flag or even a GF to follow that up it isn't worth a pile of beans but to me it indicates that the ideals and philosophies that Craig is trying to impart on our club will lead to success.

A measure of Craig's worth as a coach must be our stunning level of competitiveness whenever we take the field. In the last three years we have only lost one game by more than about 30 points. It is an incredible culture of pride and commitment that has been created in Craig's time. There are no easy games against us, home or away. Whilst some supporters take this pride in the guernsey for granted I hope it will pay dividends.

 

[Geoffa32]

Agree that premierships are the ultimate way to build up a club, but repeated finals appearances is also another way to do that. We are in a 16 team comp and I would much rather support a team that consistently makes the finals than one of those that are cellar dwellers consistently instead.

Did you watch Geelong play at all last year? Did you note their game plan? Guess what, it looked eerily like ours when everyone was calling us the crow-bots. If our game plan and style is so unimaginative, then why are most teams trying to emulate us?

Your suggestions that if he changed up how he coaches on game day and belief that it would bring the success you talk about is just as far fetched speculation as well. It's as much as unknown as leaving things as it happens now.

Each coach makes an evaluation every year, and even from game to game on their abilities and what they should do differently. Often changes are made but they are such small things that most people can't see the changes.

Dealing with 22 individuals and getting them to work together is a huge undertaking. I admire any coach that is able to do that. I have coached individuals and small groups of gymnasts and know how difficult they can be to get them to work together. Mind you I was dealing with teenage girls and they defy logic.

I know that many here think I have blinkers when it comes to NC and his coaching. But I have admiration for him in terms of coaching as I have closely watched his coaching style evolve. As a coach myself, I will take the opportunity to watch other coaches at the highest level to observe and take ideas about coaching from them.

Good post

I like the Geelong analogy. I thought I was the only one that noticed it. There are not many standout players in that team, but they play well together. Having said that they did have nine AAs but that was only because each player regularly beat their opposition, with team Pressure.

 

[Geoffa32]

We've picked up a minor premiership, being the best performed team in the minor round. Obviously without a flag or even a GF to follow that up it isn't worth a pile of beans but to me it indicates that the ideals and philosophies that Craig is trying to impart on our club will lead to success.

A measure of Craig's worth as a coach must be our stunning level of competitiveness whenever we take the field. In the last three years we have only lost one game by more than about 30 points. It is an incredible culture of pride and commitment that has been created in Craig's time. There are no easy games against us, home or away. Whilst some supporters take this pride in the guernsey for granted I hope it will pay dividends.

This will be Craigys Legacy. Developing our so called Franchise into a CLUB. A CLUB that plays for the Jumper (much like North Melbourne). I have heard him say we dont just sing about Pride, I wanna se it.

 

[NikkiNoo]

C'mon Nikki. You haven't mentioned the one player that has been suggested many times by both myself and others on this board.

Stevens.

The logical match-up for Franklin in terms of height, pace and mobility.

He should have started on Franklin. We'll never know now, but I believe that we would have won that game with an appropriate match-up for Franklin (whose confidence just grew and grew when he realized that he was still playing on a midget no matter what he did.)

Massie was the mis-match of the century and the results proved it.

I knew I forgot someone Stevens was probably a good match up, but he was having a bit of a stinker too.

The only backman that I thought was doing alright for the game was Bock. But wether that was a combination of his opponent sacrificing his game to keep Bock from helping out our other defenders or Bock forcing his player out of the play.

Hawthorn meticulously planned their forward line to combat our defensive action. They made sure that we couldn't get another player near their tall forwards to help out.

 

[CrowMagnum]

Were these premierships the making of us as a club or were they in a funny way the worst thing that could happen to us? Did the manner of them (being the best September team, as opposed to being the best team) lead to false expectations among supporters, administrators and players and breed an unrealistic and lazy impression about how to achieve success?

A premiership is a premiership is a premiership, simple as that.

It doesn't matter how, when or why you got it, it just matters that you got it and it can never be bad for a club. It might give a club a hangover for a year or two but there are no other negatives. And all this crap about some flags are better than others is just jealousy from other clubs. If you got it you earnt it.

 

[NikkiNoo]

I agree with your comments re Geelong adopting the Crow-bot style of play, Nikki.

They did, and they did it well.

Did they have better players or did they make the appropriate tactical moves when they had to be made?

Or both?

They had a forward line. Watching Geelong games this year, minimal moves were made by Thompson.

 

[CrowMagnum]

I knew I forgot someone Stevens was probably a good match up, but he was having a bit of a stinker too.

The only backman that I thought was doing alright for the game was Bock. But wether that was a combination of his opponent sacrificing his game to keep Bock from helping out our other defenders or Bock forcing his player out of the play.

Hawthorn meticulously planned their forward line to combat our defensive action. They made sure that we couldn't get another player near their tall forwards to help out.

I know for a fact that Bock was itching to have a go at Franklin. While one could argue that keeping Massie on him was designed to keep Massie positive by showing faith (I don't personally agree with this because if you know you're getting thrashed it doesn't do your confidence much good), it deflated the rest of the team who could see the game slipping away from them.

 

[CrowMagnum]

This will be Craigys Legacy. Developing our so called Franchise into a CLUB. A CLUB that plays for the Jumper (much like North Melbourne). I have heard him say we dont just sing about Pride, I wanna se it.

No doubt he has added his mark but the AFC was a club long ago. This franchise thing is just an invention of the Victorians and Port Power supporters. Craig is part of the history and tradition but he didn't start it, it began with the first win against Hawthorn..

 

[PCORF]

I find this a bit harsh

2005 final against the Saints No Huddo No Roo No Bock which meant Trent had to go back to pick up one of their 2 big guys.Also we only played one bad game in the later part of the year and that was the First final.Take a look at our effort either side of that game great effort against the Eagles in Perth and faultless display against Port.

2006 Limped into the finals and limped all through the finals with Biglands going down in the Prelim Burton and Macca very underdone played super in the first half but ran out of steam in the second half against the Eagles.Plus NO Roo No Trent who was just starting to have a impact on games before he went down.

2007 should not have made the finals.Given the year we had with injuries and there is no way anyone will convince me that some of our players were up to AFL fitness standard when they took to the Park on game day.

I don't think this team can handle the pressure of the Finals.

 

[Stiffy_18]

What were the other options?
Rutten - too slow for Franklin and being beaten well by Roughhead.
Bock - Was one of the few defenders actually winning his position. Do you move a guy that is actually effective?
Torney - Not quick enough.
Johncock or McLeod - too small.
McGregor - move one of the few effective forwards back? But again like Bock and Rutten, not quick enough for Franklin.

All I have heard is that Massie should have been moved. I have yet to actually hear who he should have been swapped with and the pluses that they would provide over Massie.

The main issue on that day was our midfielders that were allowing the delivery into Hawthorn's forward line to be almost nothing short of spectacular. Not that one match up, but the lack of accountability of our midfielders. It wasn't helped by the illegal tactics by Hawthorn on that day either.

Changes were made by Craig to try and get things to work at that game. McLeod, who was being beaten pillar to post, was moved into the midfield to try and break his tag. It didn't work. Johncock, who was getting even more molested than McLeod, was staring straight at the umpires when he was being held while the ball was over 50 metres away. The ump was looking straight at him and did nothing. When Johncock was being pushed and tripped over, the umps were also watching and again let it happen. He kept trying to run into our forward line and was being illegally impeded by the Hawthorn players.

Nikki, I know you see Craig in this light where he can do no wrong but when people continue on saying that Massie is the only option, they are just making excuses and are not willing to admit to a mistake. A first sign of great weakness.

The problem with Franklin was that we let him run wild by giving him an easy match up from the start. Once he got hot you could have put the whole team on him and he still would have had his way. My major beef here is that Craig made a mistake in the lead up to the game. The best match up from the start would have been Stevens. And then you give him some help with Torney and Massie leaving their man when needed.

Just purely on physical dimensions, Massie on Franklin is a poor match up. Franklin is not only quicker and taller than Massie, he also has a greater reach. Franklin is 196-7 cm tall and has very long arms. Massie is 187-8 cm tall with what is considered to be an average wingspan for that height. Franklin has a long wingspan for his height. Its a mismatch no matter which way you look at it.

At least go with someone who has physical capabilities to go with Franklin and quite frankly, Stevens is not a slouch on the lead either. He is not Franklin quick but he is not a hell of a lot slower than Massie either.

This is a major flaw in Craig's make up. He at times shows TOO much faith to his players. Every team needs a coach that leads. Someone that can give the players their freedom but also pull them in and give them a rocket when needed without losing their respect. Craig has the type of personality to be that type of figure because he has a close relationship with his players off the field. He has the type of personality to win them back. Think Gregg Popovich from the San Antonio Spurs in the NBA.

Craig is very predictable and that is NOT good in a coach no matter what anyone says. Sports is littered with examples of stubborn, inflexible coaches who got no where in the end. It was obvious for anyone with slight interest in Craig's coaching that he was always going to give Massie the first crack and honestly that is bordering on insanity. Massie did a great job on a wet, cold and windy night where we absolutely smashed their midfield. Hawks got better since then and we weren't going to smash them in the midfield in that manner. Couple that with it being a fine and sunny day and you have a recepie for a loss before the ball is even bounced.

Lance Franklin was the difference between the two sides and if he didn't have the nerves early he easily could have seen him kick 10+. We allowed him to get to that level not because he is THAT good but because we have him a favorable match up that he was ALWAYS going to exploit on a fine day.

 

[macca23]

^^^^^^^

The man speaks the truth.

100%.

 

[- PC -]

I know NC shouldnt pander to the great unwashed, including journos, can you imagine the outcry if Stevens was on Franklin and Stevens was towelled up?

'why didnt you try Massie''

Its a difficult job

 

[swanfan]

Why are we living in the past, lets look to the future. Forget whether Massie, Bock, Stevens or whoever was the right move on Franklin.

Lets look forward to this year and what we will accomplish as a club.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

^^^^^^^

The man speaks the truth.

100%.

Hang on - one page ago you were bemoaning Craig's lack of moves on match day and now your agreeing with Stiffy's contention that the Franklin debacle was an error in the planning/preparation phase.

So he can't coach on match day or during the week?

It's a minor miracle that we haven't picked up three consecutive spoons.

 

[CrowMagnum]

I know NC shouldnt pander to the great unwashed, including journos, can you imagine the outcry if Stevens was on Franklin and Stevens was towelled up?

'why didnt you try Massie''

Its a difficult job

It doesn't matter who's getting towelled up, but it does matter if you don't do anything about it. That's not rocket science, it's just plain logic.