Neo Conservatives are full of s**t and Capitalism is a lie

[VineyIsLORD]

Capitalism was a good system during a time when the colonies were around and the new world was opening up. It was significantly more egalitarian than the economic system that preceded it (Mercantilism) in a pre-industrial and early-industrial world.

It has since adapted many times to sustain itself, most significantly during the mid 1900's when in the face of widespread socialist movements Capitalists incorporated many socialist economic and social policies to appease the majority of workers.

As industrial bases in the capitalist nations have been eroded (due to the primary contradiction within capitalism i.e. that it requires ever cheaper workers and ever more customers) beginning in the late 60's and early 70's, Capitalism has now reverted back to its core principles i.e. that those with capital will influence the government to protect and expand their own wealth, at the expense of literally everybody else. This contradiction is going to become an even bigger problem with increased automation of labour.

Capitalism is facing its death, which is not a big problem in itself. All economic systems are created, adapt and then die. The big risk is that the Capitalist class are incredibly unlikely to adapt to the new paradigm and will continue to attack workers at home and abroad to maintain and expand their influence.

Discuss.

 

[Jello_B]

Discuss.

Not a bad video. Do the evolution by Pearl Jam is still better.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Can you be more specific?

 

[Richoman Tigers]

Discuss.

Why should we when you can't be bothered? Your capitalism is the enemy threads are getting lazier and lazier

 

[M Malice]

there has to be a better system, although i can't think of one and have yet to see one put up.

maybe when our empathetic nature is fully evolved a future human race will be able to live in a flesh and blood utopia.

sort of like the flower power of the 60s, hallucinogens, free love, communal living and all that.

 

[Malifice]

Thread needs better OP.

Was going to lock it, but changed my mind.

How about a bit of discussion on the topic in the OP?

 

[walsingham]

Socialism ftw

 

[little graham]

How about a bit of discussion on the topic in the OP?

It's difficult starting threads like this considering the trolling that goes on, especially when the OP is sincere. The thread title made a very good point, that point is backed up with evidence. The problem is, those that are not full of s**t (there's plenty that are ) don't quite know how to come of their shell and discuss what is blindly obvious to anyone with any logic.

Capitalism is killing this country, our people and our land. Neo conservatism is just a PR machine for the military industrial complex.

 

[Procrastinator35]

It's difficult starting threads like this considering the trolling that goes on, especially when the OP is sincere. The thread title made a very good point, that point is backed up with evidence. The problem is, those that are not full of s**t (there's plenty that are ) don't quite know how to come of their shell and discuss what is blindly obvious to anyone with any logic.

Capitalism is killing this country, our people and our land. Neo conservatism is just a PR machine for the military industrial complex.

It's one thing to criticize a system....Which is easily done....Quite another to come up with better suggestions & alternatives.

How & in what ways is Capitalism a lie?....The o/p could have at least provide some examples & a context, be it economical, social, environmental or psychological.

Also; in what ways is Capitalism & neo-conservative politics, inexplicably entwined?

 

[VineyIsLORD]

Thread needs better OP.

Was going to lock it, but changed my mind.

How about a bit of discussion on the topic in the OP?

Sure thing comrade.

 

[Procrastinator35]

This is not debating, you're lecturing someone who you're afraid of. You appear to be exactly like the sought of person/neo conservative the op is referring too in his thread title

My post went right over your head, the answer to that lecture of yours, is in that post. You don't have the ability to see it, because your're limited in what you can understand, as a result of your brain washing.

I didn't critisize any system. to criticize, would be to acknowledge it. I don't acknowledge it as a system. Its forced on us, its not something, me or you choose. It's something we have to tolerate. We choose to tolerate it in different ways. The difference is you choose to be afraid of the alternative. That would suggest you have given in.

And yet, you have still to provide an alternative lg....

Are you suggesting that 25 million Australians should return to a nomadic subsistence?....Do you really imagine this land can sustain such an alternative?

Please lg, offer up your prescriptive & realistic alternative....We are all ears.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

It's one thing to criticize a system....Which is easily done....Quite another to come up with better suggestions & alternatives.

How & in what ways is Capitalism a lie?....The o/p could have at least provide some examples & a context, be it economical, social, environmental or psychological.

Also; in what ways is Capitalism & neo-conservative politics, inexplicably entwined?

Edmund Burke's Neo-Conservative (as opposed to the Dick Cheney style hawks) position was specifically about capitalism incorporating elements of socialism to sustain itself against mass criticism (and to be fair, also acknowledging that those socialist elements had inherent value)

 

[VineyIsLORD]

And yet, you have still to provide an alternative lg....

Are you suggesting that 25 million Australians should return to a nomadic subsistence?....Do you really imagine this land can sustain such an alternative?

Please lg, offer up your prescriptive & realistic alternative....We are all ears.

Moving towards democratic workplaces or better yet, democratic political lives, wouldn't necessitate a return to nomadic subsistence.

 

[little graham]

Are you suggesting that 25 million Australians should return to a nomadic subsistence?....Do you really imagine this land can sustain such an alternative?

Typical neoconsertive reaction when scared. Reverts back to lecturing and lies, relies on the ignorance of the rest to save face.

Ask a proper question, a factually correct question and you'll get an answer. I havnt been surprised today and heavily doubt that I will be, but i would like to be proven wrong. Do you have it in you?

 

[Procrastinator35]

Dear Lord....It must be fascinating doing those triple somersaults in your own head.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Moving towards democratic workplaces or better yet, democratic political lives, wouldn't necessitate a return to nomadic subsistence.

Wasn't aware that we weren't?....Please explain how my workplace & society is undemocratic?

 

[VineyIsLORD]

Wasn't aware that we weren't?....Please explain how my workplace & society is undemocratic?

There are some democratic workplaces, usually those with near total union membership, or co-ops.

But most are not. Depends where you work, for all I know you live on a commune.

Our political lives are mostly undemocratic. We have elections every few years, and they are more or less meaningless when it comes to the majority of the aspects that make up an Australian life.

 

[Procrastinator35]

There are some democratic workplaces, usually those with near total union membership, or co-ops.

But most are not. Depends where you work, for all I know you live on a commune.

Our political lives are mostly undemocratic. We have elections every few years, and they are more or less meaningless when it comes to the majority of the aspects that make up an Australian life.

Are you sure you're not confusing the notion of equal rights with economic distribution?

 

[VineyIsLORD]

Are you sure you're not confusing the notion of equal rights with economic distribution?

Where did economic distribution come into it?

 

[Thrawn]

Sorry, I can't take the OP seriously as long as that avatar exists.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

Sorry, I can't take the OP seriously as long as that avatar exists.

I have never taken myself seriously, I don't expect others to do it.

 

[Richoman Tigers]

Capitalism was a good system during a time when the colonies were around and the new world was opening up. It was significantly more egalitarian than the economic system that preceded it (Mercantilism) in a pre-industrial and early-industrial world.

It has since adapted many times to sustain itself, most significantly during the mid 1900's when in the face of widespread socialist movements Capitalists incorporated many socialist economic and social policies to appease the majority of workers.

As industrial bases in the capitalist nations have been eroded (due to the primary contradiction within capitalism i.e. that it requires ever cheaper workers and ever more customers) beginning in the late 60's and early 70's, Capitalism has now reverted back to its core principles i.e. that those with capital will influence the government to protect and expand their own wealth, at the expense of literally everybody else. This contradiction is going to become an even bigger problem with increased automation of labour.

Capitalism is facing its death, which is not a big problem in itself. All economic systems are created, adapt and then die. The big risk is that the Capitalist class are incredibly unlikely to adapt to the new paradigm and will continue to attack workers at home and abroad to maintain and expand their influence.

Discuss.

While no doubt there is a huge need to review both industry and union donations to political officials capitalism in itself is working well. Everybody has a chance to succeed and those who contribute more get ahead of those who want to slack off.

I am unsure why you believe it is facing its imminent death (something you claim has been coming since you listened to your first year economics teacher talk about Marx) when reality suggests it is booming.

Also unsure how capitalism is attacking workers at home and abroad? The beauty of living in these times is that we have literally never had more choice on career paths (thanks to capitalism).

We have always had automation and this has always been a positive thing. The advancements we have made in terms of innovation have allowed new industries to emerge and employ more and more people bettering the lives of many.

 

[Long Live HFC]

Capitalism is facing its death, which is not a big problem in itself. All economic systems are created, adapt and then die. The big risk is that the Capitalist class are incredibly unlikely to adapt to the new paradigm and will continue to attack workers at home and abroad to maintain and expand their influence.

Discuss.

1. if capitalism is facing its death, why does it matter what the ruling class does? it's inevitable, right? historical materialism?

2. related to #1, you've already noted capitalism's "adaptation" to sustain itself. why now are the capitalist class' actions a "big risk", rather than just a prelude to more adaptation?

3. how do you reconcile "attacking" workers abroad with the fact global poverty rates have halved in recent decades? wouldn't your "[Capitalism] was significantly more egalitarian than the economic system that preceded it" still fit in certain contexts when it's a question of starvation vs exploitation?

 

[VineyIsLORD]

Whilst the last two posts are reasonably snooty in parts they are both good replies.

I just can't be bothered responding in the level of detail that they deserve right now. I started this thread when drunk and then updated the OP with a stream of consciousness rant (that I do genuinely believe to be true) while hungover, one that I no longer have the energy to defend.

Apologies to you both.

 

[Xsess]

Perhaps the OP should get off his arse and get a job.