Moved Thread Neutral fans: Hawkins or Riewoldt?

Neutral fans: Who’s the better player over the course of their 16 seasons

  • Tom Hawkins

    Votes: 194 69.0%
  • Jack Riewoldt

    Votes: 87 31.0%

  • Total voters
    281

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Endless

Senior List
Jul 21, 2014
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Western Bulldogs
Both are absolute champions
Hawkins has only recently gone past Riewoldt imho & expect Hawk to play for a bit longer
Jack slightly better in finals
Hawk slightly better team player as in rucking & score assists
Who would I have kicking a goal for my life? Hawk
Who would I rather have a beer with?
Jack
Haven’t read the entire thread but am interested to know if there is a junktime stat for goals kicked? Probably hard to do as junktime is subjective but judging only on games vs my mob would have Jack comfortably ahead there
 

PhatBoy

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2016
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Both are absolute champions
Hawkins has only recently gone past Riewoldt imho & expect Hawk to play for a bit longer
Jack slightly better in finals
Hawk slightly better team player as in rucking & score assists
Who would I have kicking a goal for my life? Hawk
Who would I rather have a beer with?
Jack
Haven’t read the entire thread but am interested to know if there is a junktime stat for goals kicked? Probably hard to do as junktime is subjective but judging only on games vs my mob would have Jack comfortably ahead there


Unless there is an easily accessible database that already has it, literally the only way to work it out would be to go through AFL tables game by game and check the scoring progression. Even a numbers nuffy like me couldn’t be bothered doing that
 

Meteoric Rise

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 4, 2008
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Both are absolute champions
Hawkins has only recently gone past Riewoldt imho & expect Hawk to play for a bit longer
Jack slightly better in finals
Hawk slightly better team player as in rucking & score assists
Who would I have kicking a goal for my life? Hawk
Who would I rather have a beer with?
Jack
Haven’t read the entire thread but am interested to know if there is a junktime stat for goals kicked? Probably hard to do as junktime is subjective but judging only on games vs my mob would have Jack comfortably ahead there

Thankfully there is such a stat where we can verify junk time goals kicked.

According to this thread Jack has 738 of them and Hawkins is yet to kick one. 😂
 

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Kapow!!!

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 29, 2003
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Interesting question. Currently I have Hawkins as the best FF in the comp (if not best then at least the most proven and my favourite). Not necessarily on goals kicked but as a holistic leader of a forward line: He's the General. It's a role he has grown into and has improved every year he has been in the game to reach that point. Also the strongest and most reliable Forward

Riewoldt on the other hand was a bit of a prodigy reaching greater heights earlier in his career. Was gifted with the footy smarts that have taken Hawkins a large portion of his career to reach and was incredibly important in their dynasty: No more so than in 2017 when he was the only notable KPF in their breakthrough flag.

Hard to say. The only way I can answer it is:

If I wanted one of them at their career best for my team's forwardline: Hawkins

Player I think has had a better career/more influential career: Riewoldt (though Hawkins has the best single Grand Final of the both of them)
 

Sky

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I just hope he gets a medal
Nah according to Richmond fans Hawkins is no good because Riewoldt has 3 premierships to Tom’s 2.

If Richmond won in 07, 09 and 11 and we won 17, 19 and 20.. Riewoldt would be a two time premiership player and I’m sure they’d still be clutching at straws :$

I normally don’t mind Richmond fans but their very worst posters are worse than any other sides worst posters.
 
Mar 11, 2018
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Yeah, it's an interesting one. Samish amount of games. Similar but different players.

I'ma taking the very simplistic view - goal scoring is their primary reason for being. All else is secondary and therefore discarded - although another approach could be to consider goal scoring to be "a wash" and then compare them purely upon the secondaries.

Anyway

Tom averages 2.23 goals + 0.83 goal assists per game
Jack averages 2.34 + 0.74

That puts Jack ahead by less than half a goal over a season.

Then 3 Colemans to 2
3 Premierships to 2
3 AAs to 4

Hard to split 'em to be honest

Picking Jack but no heart for this fight.
 

Art Vandelay_

TheBrownDog
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Just maybe Richmond have targeted Riewoldt more than Geelong did with Hawkins.

In 2010 when Riewoldt kicked 78 the next highest was 15. The ball would have been heading to Riewoldt at nearly every opportunity

In 2014 when Hawkins kicked 68, Geelong had 4 players in the 20's and another 2 on 17

I can't believe Richmond supporters have managed to get me defending Hawkins.
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Always knew you were a wholesome fella deep down.
 

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Jimmybob

It's coming..
May 26, 2012
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How does Jack get the reputation as the sook when Hawkins hit an umpire after a decision?
Unfortunately for Jack he was a sook early on in his career which has stuck around ever since; it also doesn’t help that he has a certain face that looks sooky when he ‘screws’ it up.

It’s a really close call. Im bias by picking Jack, but the main reason I do is because I think his footy IQ is way, way ahead of Hawkins.. the other stats are too close to split.
 

Falcon3518

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Mar 13, 2022
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Nah according to Richmond fans Hawkins is no good because Riewoldt has 3 premierships to Tom’s 2.

If Richmond won in 07, 09 and 11 and we won 17, 19 and 20.. Riewoldt would be a two time premiership player and I’m sure they’d still be clutching at straws :$

I normally don’t mind Richmond fans but their very worst posters are worse than any other sides worst posters.

Nobody said Jack is better because of the flags. Looks like somebody needs to lay off the bath salts.
 

PetterdHoisted

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 27, 2014
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Not trying to start an argument - I’m fairly neutral on the subject, natural bias would probably make me choose Tom but there are multiple arguments you can make the other way.

Just prompted by a comment in the Hawkins 700 goals thread
sorry what?

Stop trying to subvert the Jack vs Buddy debate.

Still cannot believe that year they gave AA FF to Buddy when Jack kicked more goals.
 

Scotland

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May 5, 2006
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Nah according to Richmond fans Hawkins is no good because Riewoldt has 3 premierships to Tom’s 2.

If Richmond won in 07, 09 and 11 and we won 17, 19 and 20.. Riewoldt would be a two time premiership player and I’m sure they’d still be clutching at straws :$

I normally don’t mind Richmond fans but their very worst posters are worse than any other sides worst posters.

The only premiership 'argument' is that Riewoldt was a key piece of Richmond's 2017-20 side while Hawkins didn't play in 2007 (or 2008), wasn't a key player in 2009 and wasn't a key player in 2011 either - until he suddenly was. 3 goals in the 3rd quarter of the 2011 GF was the most impactful game of his career given the stage of the game and the fact it was a GF.

I don't think it's a useful measure of Hawkins ability that Johnson, Corey, Bartel, Chapman, Scarlett, Ling, Mooney, Enright etc. are 5+ years older than he is. Selwood is the same age, he's either good or he isn't. Hawkins' first really good season was 2012 when he turned 24. Josh Kennedy's (third banana in this debate) was 2011 when he turned 24. Jack Riewoldt had his breakout season in 2010 when he was 22. As usual Franklin is the freak kicking 73 goals the year he turned 20.

Each to their own but I don't really have a strong opinion one way or the other. Both great players. Hawkins stronger, Riewoldt a bigger aerial threat. Etc. Hawkins definitely the better player right now.
 

Jazny

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Just checking in to see if TRIPLE premiership player Jack Riewoldt is still way better than Tom Orcins.... yes he is! okay bye.
 

darcytiger

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Apr 11, 2007
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Both are absolute champions
Hawkins has only recently gone past Riewoldt imho & expect Hawk to play for a bit longer
Jack slightly better in finals
Hawk slightly better team player as in rucking & score assists
Who would I have kicking a goal for my life? Hawk
Who would I rather have a beer with?
Jack
Haven’t read the entire thread but am interested to know if there is a junktime stat for goals kicked? Probably hard to do as junktime is subjective but judging only on games vs my mob would have Jack comfortably ahead there
I think if his name was Greg he wouldn’t get called junktime Greg, it is only the alliterative nature of it that leads people to believe this.

I don’t know how many ‘junktime’ goals he’s kicked but I do know he leads the ‘first goal of the game’ stat by so far it isn’t funny. If the first 5 minutes of the game is junktime then play on.
 

danster168

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Apr 29, 2016
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yeah it's definitely Hawkins but I can't stand the way Hawkins gets away with pushing in the back his whole career. It's a bit of a blemish on his game for me. It's fake strength everytime he does it but the umpires are more to blame.