Moved Thread Neutral fans: Hawkins or Riewoldt?

Neutral fans: Who’s the better player over the course of their 16 seasons

  • Tom Hawkins

    Votes: 214 69.7%
  • Jack Riewoldt

    Votes: 93 30.3%

  • Total voters
    307

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Falcon3518

Premiership Player
Mar 13, 2022
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And half the hatred, based on the ‘who is your most hated club’ thread

It’s because you’re a minnow club you don’t get that much hate. You haven’t really won enough flags or have a big enough supporter base to piss people off. Sort of like St Kilda. Being based in Geelong doesn’t help either.
 

STPer18

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 12, 2017
10,682
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It’s because you’re a minnow club you don’t get that much hate. You haven’t really won enough flags or have a big enough supporter base to piss people off. Sort of like St Kilda. Being based in Geelong doesn’t help either.
You misread, Richmond have half the 'hatred' of Geelong based on that other thread. But I agree with the other part, being such a minnow makes your team less offensive. ;)
 

PhatBoy

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2016
35,257
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It’s because you’re a minnow club you don’t get that much hate. You haven’t really won enough flags or have a big enough supporter base to piss people off. Sort of like St Kilda. Being based in Geelong doesn’t help either.

Is it because you have a minnow brain that you can’t compute what ‘double’ means?

Ie. in the thread about most hated clubs, we are twice as hated as Richmond? Is that why we are less hated? Because we are more hated? Is that why? Is that because we are a minnow club?



As a musician if there’s one thing I’ve learned, by the way, it’s that size and popularity equals quality.


It’s why the Spice Girls only sold a few hundred million albums while the most influential guitar/punk outfit of all time never had so much as a top 50 single.

Because popularity is tantamount to quality 😂
 

owen87

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 23, 2016
22,827
29,874
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But do they?

Yes.

You've just worked that out for yourself.

North and West Coast are unusually bad.

Richmond 2010 was unusually bad.

For the majority of both Hawkins and Reiwoldts careers the goals scored by their teams has been around the league average each season.
 

Falcon3518

Premiership Player
Mar 13, 2022
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Is it because you have a minnow brain that you can’t compute what ‘double’ means?

Ie. in the thread about most hated clubs, we are twice as hated as Richmond? Is that why we are less hated? Because we are more hated? Is that why? Is that because we are a minnow club?



As a musician if there’s one thing I’ve learned, by the way, it’s that size and popularity equals quality.


It’s why the Spice Girls only sold a few hundred million albums while the most influential guitar/punk outfit of all time never had so much as a top 50 single.

Because popularity is tantamount to quality

Sorry I misread, idk about that thread but I see a lot more people hating on Richmond on social media. Idk why this seems to be different on BF.
 

PhatBoy

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2016
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Sorry I misread, idk about that thread but I see a lot more people hating on Richmond on social media. Idk why this seems to be different on BF.


Because they are a bigger point of contention.

They ARE a big club. That’s indisputable. So in an environment where there are a lot of people without a specific interest they will still garner some attention.

In a more concentrated environment like bigfooty where everyone is here BECAUSE they are a dedicated footy fan there is going to be more specific taste and biases than what there is in the general public or social media. Same with Collingwood - they are still disliked in this forum but not to near the same extent they are in wider public spheres
 

Elmer_Judd

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Jul 25, 2019
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It’s because you’re a minnow club you don’t get that much hate. You haven’t really won enough flags or have a big enough supporter base to piss people off. Sort of like St Kilda. Being based in Geelong doesn’t help either.

You do know a big reason Richmond is so hated is because of the arrogant and obnoxious of a minority but very loud supporter group like yourself, who had been a joke for over 30 years in the league, jagged a few flags (in arguably fortitudious circumstances in a couple of them, aka Crows half time meltdown in 2017 etc) and all of your sudden you think you're better other club and supporter group in the league ...SMH

I genuinely believe Hawkins was/is the better player than Riewoldt overall, but it would have been tempted to have voted for Hawkins out of spite :)

Btw gonna to retract my earlier statement about Riewoldt, defintley not a downhill skier, still a bit flithy about last week's loss tbh
 

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Falcon3518

Premiership Player
Mar 13, 2022
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You do know a big reason Richmond is so hated is because of the arrogant and obnoxious of a minority but very loud supporter group like yourself, who had been a joke for over 30 years in the league, jagged a few flags (in arguably fortitudious circumstances in a couple of them, aka Crows half time meltdown in 2017 etc) and all of your sudden you think you're better other club and supporter group in the league ...SMH

I genuinely believe Hawkins was/is the better player than Riewoldt overall, but it would have been tempted to have voted for Hawkins out of spite :)

Btw gonna to retract my earlier statement about Riewoldt, defintley not a downhill skier, still a bit flithy about last week's loss tbh

It’s tall poppy syndrome. You just wait until the other big 4 win some flags. Richmond supporters and myself will be angels compared to them. I’m just blunt which rubs people up the wrong way my actual opinions aren’t unreasonable.
 

Wojcinski

Steve Hocking's Polish Friend
Aug 14, 2011
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It’s tall poppy syndrome. You just wait until the other big 4 win some flags. Richmond supporters and myself will be angels compared to them. I’m just blunt which rubs people up the wrong way my actual opinions aren’t unreasonable.
you're not blunt, you're a disrespectful s**t-stirrer who can't comprehend the fact that someone out there may be better at something than their Richmond counterpart, proven by the fact that you're in every Richmond related thread defending them until you're blue in the face.

You're young, you haven't seen other big clubs during winning times and yes, you're right there are a lot of nuffies out there just like you but I can tell you right now, you'll never be seen as an angel because you're part of that special group of one-eyed dolts who brings the public opinion of your fellow Tiger supporters down with you.
 

Danw0w

Team Captain
Feb 19, 2020
314
677
AFL Club
Richmond
Is it because you have a minnow brain that you can’t compute what ‘double’ means?

Ie. in the thread about most hated clubs, we are twice as hated as Richmond? Is that why we are less hated? Because we are more hated? Is that why? Is that because we are a minnow club?



As a musician if there’s one thing I’ve learned, by the way, it’s that size and popularity equals quality.


It’s why the Spice Girls only sold a few hundred million albums while the most influential guitar/punk outfit of all time never had so much as a top 50 single.

Because popularity is tantamount to quality 😂
Your club definitely aren’t minnows but I can see how in an open poll, Geelong can be more hated because the same people that hate Richmond probably hate Essendon and Carlton more. But in a matchup between Richmond and Geelong I can see why people would tend to favour Geelong (don’t mind it one bit). It’s kinda like the preferential voting system.

Music is in no way analogous to sport imo. The more successful clubs throughout history tend to be more popular, as clubs like Carlton, Essendon and Collingwood have more fans than the likes of the dogs, the saints and North. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.
 

Falcon3518

Premiership Player
Mar 13, 2022
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you're not blunt, you're a disrespectful s**t-stirrer who can't comprehend the fact that someone out there may be better at something than their Richmond counterpart, proven by the fact that you're in every Richmond related thread defending them until you're blue in the face.

You're young, you haven't seen other big clubs during winning times and yes, you're right there are a lot of nuffies out there just like you but I can tell you right now, you'll never be seen as an angel because you're part of that special group of one-eyed dolts who brings the public opinion of your fellow Tiger supporters down with you.

Wow, I’ve criticised our players many times. Try me.
 

PhatBoy

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2016
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Your club definitely aren’t minnows but I can see how in an open poll, Geelong can be more hated because the same people that hate Richmond probably hate Essendon and Carlton more. But in a matchup between Richmond and Geelong I can see why people would tend to favour Geelong (don’t mind it one bit). It’s kinda like the preferential voting system.

Music is in no way analogous to sport imo. The more successful clubs throughout history tend to be more popular, as clubs like Carlton, Essendon and Collingwood have more fans than the likes of the dogs, the saints and North. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.


I’m simply saying that popularity doesn’t equal ‘good’ that’s all. In almost every sport I follow I tend to target (Geelong werent targeted I started following them when I was 5) clubs that are in now way among the powerful - probably so I can’t be accused of being a bandwagon supporter. I followed the Sonics in the NBA, the Bengals in the NFL, Bolton in EPL, hell even my favourite darts player (Wayne Mardle) was mediocre.

I’ve never really liked the idea of EVERYONE going for the same teams as me I kind of like my teams being on the periphery
 

Meteoric Rise

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 4, 2008
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Yes.

You've just worked that out for yourself.

North and West Coast are unusually bad.

Richmond 2010 was unusually bad.

For the majority of both Hawkins and Reiwoldts careers the goals scored by their teams has been around the league average each season.

Hawkins has played in teams that have on average scored about 2-3 more goals than teams Riewoldt has played in. In the context of their careers that is an 800 or so extra goals Geelong have scored compared to Richmond. To characterise both club’s scoring as being around average, is to say both clubs have scored about the same. But they haven’t.

You somehow seem to be maintaining the position it is no harder for a good forward to kick goals within a team that scores less than it is for him to kick goals within a team that scores more. And I haven’t added it up but I think we are talking 15% more that Geelong have scored than Richmond over that period.

Your position makes less and less sense with every post. Now you are saying in 2010 Richmond were unusually bad. So wouldn’t this make Riewoldt’s 78 goals in the lowest scoring team in the AFL that season an incredibly good achievement?

You have not supplied one bit of evidence to support your contention it is easier for an individual forward to score goals in a team that doesn’t score as many goals. I doubt there is any evidence to support that. Because it doesn’t make sense.
 

PhatBoy

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2016
35,257
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Hawkins has played in teams that have on average scored about 2-3 more goals than teams Riewoldt has played in. In the context of their careers that is an 800 or so extra goals Geelong have scored compared to Richmond. To characterise both club’s scoring as being around average, is to say both clubs have scored about the same. But they haven’t.

You somehow seem to be maintaining the position it is no harder for a good forward to kick goals within a team that scores less than it is for him to kick goals within a team that scores more. And I haven’t added it up but I think we are talking 15% more that Geelong have scored than Richmond over that period.

Your position makes less and less sense with every post. Now you are saying in 2010 Richmond were unusually bad. So wouldn’t this make Riewoldt’s 78 goals in the lowest scoring team in the AFL that season an incredibly good achievement?

You have not supplied one bit of evidence to support your contention it is easier for an individual forward to score goals in a team that doesn’t score as many goals. I doubt there is any evidence to support that. Because it doesn’t make sense.


Genuine question do we actually have any data on this?

The three primary forwards when I was growing up were Dunstall Ablett and Lockett.

One spent the majority of his career in a s**t side, one in a great side, one in a side that was s**t for half his career and very good for the other half.

The next generation was a mixed bag too.
Even now two of the best forwards of the last decade were Cameron and Lynch who have both been prolific in s**t sides and more recently in good sides. Is there any known data that supports one theory over the other?
 

Trahanas22

Debutant
Oct 10, 2017
121
277
AFL Club
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You do know a big reason Richmond is so hated is because of the arrogant and obnoxious of a minority but very loud supporter group like yourself, who had been a joke for over 30 years in the league, jagged a few flags (in arguably fortitudious circumstances in a couple of them, aka Crows half time meltdown in 2017 etc) and all of your sudden you think you're better other club and supporter group in the league ...SMH

I genuinely believe Hawkins was/is the better player than Riewoldt overall, but it would have been tempted to have voted for Hawkins out of spite :)

Btw gonna to retract my earlier statement about Riewoldt, defintley not a downhill skier, still a bit flithy about last week's loss tbh
Whoa, a Freudian slip of a post par excellence. You were tempted indeed. And succumbed to the temptation, like the rest of the your brethren. Carlton supporters have posted here about fifteen-twenty times. Not a single one had anything good to say about Jack. It is 100% certain that none of you voted for Riewoldt.

Broad’s mystical, Neo-like ability to slow down time and start wiggling his fingers at the exact millisecond the ball was approaching them still has you frothing at the mouth. A week after, and the froth is still visible.

If this thread was really frequented only by neutrals the result would have been much closer. Both these players are quite similar in terms of footy output, there is no reason for such discrepancy, apart from biases such as the anchovy-like saltiness of the Carltoonists...
 

Kapow!!!

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Sep 29, 2003
12,388
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I’m simply saying that popularity doesn’t equal ‘good’ that’s all. In almost every sport I follow I tend to target (Geelong werent targeted I started following them when I was 5) clubs that are in now way among the powerful - probably so I can’t be accused of being a bandwagon supporter. I followed the Sonics in the NBA, the Bengals in the NFL, Bolton in EPL, hell even my favourite darts player (Wayne Mardle) was mediocre.

I’ve never really liked the idea of EVERYONE going for the same teams as me I kind of like my teams being on the periphery
My reason for going for Freo as a 7 year old was: Underdog club, not from Victoria (as a Melbournian at the time), funky colours and my favourite player at the time (Adrian Fletcher) was traded to them. My NRL team is the Cowboys in 2003 when I started playing it at school and learning about the game they were the underdog Queenslad team and in general I love the North Queensland laid back straight shooters. My EFL side is the Blackburn Rovers though that's mostly family reasons but I'd rather support the underdog. My NFL team is the Vikings because I'm a masochist.

I empathise with and appreciate your club selection more than most. But Geelong have never been a minnow (unless you started backing them in the early-mid 80s but I do know that isn't the case). They were a contender and loved club for pretty much all of the 90s. I assume you started watching in the early 00s when they were rebuilding?
 

Elmer_Judd

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Jul 25, 2019
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Whoa, a Freudian slip of a post par excellence. You were tempted indeed. And succumbed to the temptation, like the rest of the your brethren. Carlton supporters have posted here about fifteen-twenty times. Not a single one had anything good to say about Jack. It is 100% certain that none of you voted for Riewoldt.

Broad’s mystical, Neo-like ability to slow down time and start wiggling his fingers at the exact millisecond the ball was approaching them still has you frothing at the mouth. A week after, and the froth is still visible.

If this thread was really frequented only by neutrals the result would have been much closer. Both these players are quite similar in terms of footy output, there is no reason for such discrepancy, apart from biases such as the anchovy-like saltiness of the Carltoonists...

Or maybe we just rate Hawkins the better player. Got nothing to do with any so called anti Richmond bias, no need to be so insecure or paranoid about it.