Hawkins had just won a premiership with a close to big performance though.
NEUTRALS who is a better player?
- Thread starter STRONGandBALD
- Start date
- Tagged users None
- Feb 19, 2011
- 3,653
- 4,938
- AFL Club
- Geelong
Such a naysayer aren't ya.
cliffdrabble
Cancelled
- Sep 1, 2018
- 453
- 645
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
1. KENNEDY
2. HAWKINS
3 RIEWOLDT
In that order by who has played the best against us. We would have won the 2018 flag if Kennedy had missed that game. He never seemed to miss when his side really needed a goal in that game and in all games against us.
All 3 great players though and you could have them in any order
Not as great though as the greatest player ever in Tony Lockett. Nobody but nobody had Lockett's measure.
2. HAWKINS
3 RIEWOLDT
In that order by who has played the best against us. We would have won the 2018 flag if Kennedy had missed that game. He never seemed to miss when his side really needed a goal in that game and in all games against us.
All 3 great players though and you could have them in any order
Not as great though as the greatest player ever in Tony Lockett. Nobody but nobody had Lockett's measure.
1. Kennedy
2. Riewoldt
3. Hawkins
Just on talent I'd have Hawkins above Riewoldt, but I put Riewoldt at 2 because he squeezed every little drip of talent out, he should be very proud of his AFL career.
I'd also add that Hawkins best is better than Riewoldt's best, the question asked is pretty vague.
2. Riewoldt
3. Hawkins
Just on talent I'd have Hawkins above Riewoldt, but I put Riewoldt at 2 because he squeezed every little drip of talent out, he should be very proud of his AFL career.
I'd also add that Hawkins best is better than Riewoldt's best, the question asked is pretty vague.
- May 13, 2014
- 1,670
- 1,845
- AFL Club
- Geelong
Starting a half a dozen games prior to the 2011 finals series was when Hawkins finally became a fulltime stay at home key forward.
Look at his goal tallies per season prior to 2012, that's a better indicator.
Prior to that he was a bit part player, including 2nd ruck, pretty much prior to round 17, 2011 any game where he had 3 or more hitouts, he was 2nd ruck.
In 2011 prior to him being playing as a permanent forward he kicked 5 goals in his first 9 games of the season, he then changed to permanent forward where he kicked 22 in his last 9 games that year for a seasons tally of 27 goals from 18 games.
In 2012 he kicked 62 from 22 (and was probably still used as a 2nd ruck in 1 or 2 games).
In his first 70 games he would have legitimately been our 2nd ruck in 21 games.
How many games did Jack do similar?
In Jack's first 2 seasons he kicked 25 from 26 games.
In Tom's first 2 seasons he kicked 25 from 18 games.
It seems Jack is the one with the poor early goal returns.
Excellent walkback. Tom has gone from "second ruck in his first five seasons" to "second ruck in 21 of his first 70 games", which is 30%. Given first ruck probably played +/-75% game time that leaves Tom rucking for a cumulative six games. Such a drag on his figures.
Jack's early returns were "poor", but he was a young struggling player, just like Tom, be it behind a guy who kicked 800 career goals and in a losing side.
The reality is that both Hawkins and Riewoldt have been great players and great clubmen. Both started slow, Jack broke out earlier and had a few better seasons than Tom, they level pegged for a while and now Tom is having a better career twilight.
Last edited:
Did you actually watch him? It was visible. And not just ‘oh it looks like he might be carrying something’ visible. It was pretty obvious to anyone that’s ever had a bad back how much it was restricting him.
He still had his power and good hands so having him play injured was far better than any alternative but he was very clearly restricted
It flared at times and he was restricted at times. He took to the field in 22 games and averaged 90% game time. Yes, he looked crap at times, like when he couldn't bend quick enough for a ground ball or burst on the lead, but could still run, jump and kick. Between Hawkins being a ruckman and a cripple people might think he only played one season as a forward in his first seven. They'll be suggesting he should have kicked a 1000 goals.
With the amount of games he’s played I actually think it’s possible if one circumstance eventuates. Not because he spent some huge amount of time rucking or walking on a Zimmer frame with a bad back.
But I think had those first five years been spent with a diabolical team where they just make him the focal point - like North are doing with Larkey - maybe he kicks 1000.
You could mount a similar argument for the last four years of jack’s career too if they had never bought lynch in. He’d probably have kicked a heap more goals if the tigers in an alternate universe had had 1-2 more cracks at a flag after 17-18, not bought in Lynch, failed, and just kept Riewoldt in there as a number 1 target while they develop a bunch of skinny kids
TheCatStevensExperience
Footballl Oracle
- Jul 28, 2023
- 2,611
- 2,987
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Other Teams
- BigBigSounders2023 Kansas City Chefs
Would be interested to see who they each shared the forward line with for the year
I like it. As the years have gone on though (2018 onwards in particular), Hawkins has become somewhat of a goal assist aficionado which has made a greater discrepancy over the past 6 seasons. Best to combine them (forgive my very crude effort):
| Year | Hawkins | Riewoldt |
2007 | 18 | 12 |
2008 | 19 | 33 |
2009 | 52 | 40 |
2010 | 30 | 87 |
2011 | 41 | 83 |
2012 | 81 | 85 |
2013 | 65 | 84 |
2014 | 85 | 79 |
2015 | 62 | 76 |
2016 | 72 | 66 |
2017 | 68 | 65 |
2018 | 84 | 89 |
2019 | 80 | 36 |
2020 | 72 | 43 |
2021 | 82 | 68 |
2022 | 94 | 52 |
2023 | 65 | 36 |
| Median | 68 | 66 |
| Years on top | 10 | 7 |
ohhh no someone wrecked your internet poll
- Apr 14, 2013
- 2,718
- 5,152
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Other Teams
- Preston, WIndies, Armagh GAA
Wow. Having read the reasoning for this thread being made all I have to say is, why do a good proportion of Richmond supporters seem to spend every waking moment stressing over whether Richmond players are respected enough by other teams supporters? You see it here, you hear it on talkback radio, I have never seen anything like it.
Like honestly who gives a flying * what others think of them, these blokes have won you 3 flags. Isn’t that the reason you watch footy?
Like honestly who gives a flying * what others think of them, these blokes have won you 3 flags. Isn’t that the reason you watch footy?
One big factor in Jack's output from 2019 onwards is that he has had to play second fiddle to Tom Lynch.
Not just that, three flags which kick off 35 years after their last grand final appearance. Wouldn't you just be satisfied?
- Jun 17, 2010
- 7,946
- 9,602
- AFL Club
- Geelong
I didn't revise anything. I said he's back was hampered by injury in 2013 and you've confirmed it.
No. You said he couldn't leap in 2013 and he couldn't bend over and pick up the ball in 2013. Now you've walked it back to "hampered" (which it was) by a back injury (described as niggling on the GFC website) after being called out.
- Jun 17, 2010
- 7,946
- 9,602
- AFL Club
- Geelong
Yeah what do you think the definition of Hampered is?
"hinder or impede the movement or progress of."
Which is exactly what I said.
Elmer_Judd
Everyone's favourite grouch
- Jul 25, 2019
- 53,234
- 78,495
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Other Teams
- Leeds United
- Banned
- #99
The only one here who was named captain of the All Australian Team should be undisputedly the best player/had the best career here.
Case Closed.
Case Closed.
You said he couldn’t, which is a bit more than hampered. It’s all there in black and white.
