New Australian coach Justin Langer

[wolmeister]

Think Langer is getting a bit of a rough deal here. Maybe you know better than I though. I know little about the man other than what he did with bat in hand years ago. He's what, 6 tests into his national coaching career? In that time he's picked Mitch Marsh 3 times, or to look at it another way, only 50% of the time he was available. Some other beggars picked him for those other 28 or so Tests.

For me he's a bit like Stewie Dew. He's come into a shitshow with talent problems and off field problems (psychological and administrative). Maybe he's a good coach and maybe he isn't. I can't tell yet.

And as The Speaker says above speculation has been part of Australian Test Selection for a long time. Whether it be the next Warne, the next Hayden, the next Gilchrist, a Flintoff, etc. And selection at its core is subjective. There are always selections people strongly disagree with for whatever reason. And when this subjectivity is accompanied by poor performance it adds fuel to the fire. But even back in the glory days you didn't have to look too far to find a bore declaring at length how Love was a better pure batsman than half the current Test top 6, or that MacGill was a better bowler than Warne or that if Jones was gifted the same number of chances as Steve Waugh he'd be Australia's best batsman. All subjective, and as time transpires, irrelevant.

Spending a lot of time in these forums there seems to be a general consensus that we should "just pick the best side", yet there is no similar consensus about what that best side actually is. Plenty of suggestions, followed by plenty of "Ugh, no"'s. What defines "best"? Statistics, form, technique, potential, experience, incumbency, balance and psychology all play a part. We all weight those differently and don't have all the data anyway.

And similarly to Mitch Marsh, Langer applied for a job and was offered it. You can't blame him for accepting it or not insisting that CA perform a more rigorous appointment process. I'm massively frustrated by the ability of our batsman to make a dumb decision at seemingly a moments notice, but maybe this ship is going to take longer than 6 tests to turn around. In business where you've had an immature or poorly controlled s**t show, it often gets worse before it gets better. That might be the case here too. My accusatory gaze is more drawn to a distrust of the administrative governance rather than the new coach, probably due to my business and sports administration experience. I've found that when you have a paucity of transparency or confusion based upon implied instruction, it's because someone at the top likes things exactly that way.

Aussie cricket is in a hole for sure. Might be there for a while too. But I don't yet know which character Langer is.
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Needs to be given a chance to prove himself; 6 tests is hardly that.

 

[STFU Donnie]

I'm not surprised Lawson was sacked by Pakistan after 15 months into the job. If he can't see that this Australian team is immeasurably improved by having someone like Labuschagne batting, with the best technique in the Australian top 6, then he doesn't know how to pick teams with the prospect of being developing to win games.

For crying out loud, wanting to go back to 30 year old blokes with techniques about swiping across the line through mid-wicket, because they might have fluked a few more runs than Labuschagne, says everything about Lawson.

You might want to check the source of your signature quote.

 

[wolmeister]

You stick up for your boy. It's cute.

Aaaah, get called out for blabbing out blatant bullshit and out comes the ad hom. I wasn't a fan of Langer becoming WA coach; there would be comments to that effect in one of the WA cricket threads on here. But I must be a Langer fan boy lol.

 

[Messenger]

Makes sense to ask the question doesn't it? Apparently, success with Shield wins along with developing quality test cricketers is a criteria to coach Australia. Victoria has been by far and away the most successful Shield side of the last 10 years. Where are all the test players that have been developed? Should we rush Andrew McDonald in to coach the Australian team?

Well Harris and Stoinis seemed to have benefited from the move to Victoria. Shame Stoinis went back.

McDonald couldn't do a worse job.

 

[Len Nicodemo]

He mentioned Glenn Maxwell, no just no.

??? You’re joking?

 

[Len Nicodemo]

Langer giving the national team the Marsh brothers is not a fact; they were already in WA team prior to his stint as WA coach and were in the Australian side prior to his tenure as Australian coach.

You can’t drop them because of that reason?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Well Harris and Stoinis seemed to have benefited from the move to Victoria. Shame Stoinis went back.

McDonald couldn't do a worse job.

McDonald was also smart enough to know that Finch was a middle order player, and didn't use him as an opener.
Would have to be daft to do that.

 

[Marstermind]

The most amazing thing is that Lawson wrote a full article without referring to Sydney grade cricket once.

What next? Dean Jones writing an article without mentioning one of his own innings, the 1987 World Cup or the 1989 Ashes?

 

[Dez!]

??? You’re joking?

No I'm not, he's the most overrated Cricketer in Australia.

 

[Starburns_]

Because it is.
T20 titles are largely irrelevant.

Didn’t win a shield title.
Didn’t produce any quality cricketers to the test side.

^^This. Langer's entire coaching reputation was built on success in a deliberately equalised competition (which he pretty much circumvented anyway), which should have had no bearing on his potential ability to develop a competitive test side, especially when his Shield record has been unimpressive.

That said, there's 2 other selectors there capable of overruling him, so there's someone else dropping the ball too.

Victoria has produced how many quality test cricketers over the last 10 years? You would expect numerous Victorians in the test side given they've won 5 of the last 10 Shields. Quiney's 9 was of the highest quality though.

If someone was pushing for McDonald to have Langer's job then you might have a point, otherwise you're just deflecting.

 

[Len Nicodemo]

Players that averaged over 40 in the shield last season and over 40 again so far this year:

Harris
Burns
Wade
Hughes
Maxwell
White
Pucovski (albeit from like 3 games across both years)

Now who has been Australia's best batsman over the summer.

Exactly. That’s why the most sensible side to pick for England is;

Harris
Burns
Khawaja
Smith
Wade
Maxwell
7-11 as is

 

[Len Nicodemo]

No I'm not, he's the most overrated Cricketer in Australia.

Not according to his stats since 2015....

 

[Art Vandelay_]

No I'm not, he's the most overrated Cricketer in Australia.

That's Chris Lynn.

 

[wolmeister]

Well Harris and Stoinis seemed to have benefited from the move to Victoria. Shame Stoinis went back.

McDonald couldn't do a worse job.

And you can make that judgement call based on 6 tests?

 

[wolmeister]

^^This. Langer's entire coaching reputation was built on success in a deliberately equalised competition (which he pretty much circumvented anyway), which should have had no bearing on his potential ability to develop a competitive test side, especially when his Shield record has been unimpressive.

That said, there's 2 other selectors there capable of overruling him, so there's someone else dropping the ball too.



If someone was pushing for McDonald to have Langer's job then you might have a point, otherwise you're just deflecting.

Lol, sure.

 

[Starburns_]

Lol, sure.

Good to see that you're continuing to remain on topic.

 

[damochandler]

I’d be getting rid of Chappell for good. Last 2 times as selectors has been nothing short of disgraceful. He’s stuffed all the pathways as well as the second Xi bullshit. I wonder how he still has a role in Cricket Australia.

Cricket Australia need to fix the fixtures. The bbl is cooked and we still have another month and a half of it. We want the best players playing red ball cricket during tests. Not 20/20 or odi

 

[Demons09]

Lawson has never recovered after being hit in the head by a bouncer in the Carribean.

 

[wolmeister]

Well Harris and Stoinis seemed to have benefited from the move to Victoria. Shame Stoinis went back.

McDonald couldn't do a worse job.

Wasn't Greg Shipperd in charge when both headed over to Victoria?

 

[wolmeister]

Good to see that you're continuing to remain on topic.

Likewise hypocrite.

 

[wolmeister]

You can’t drop them because of that reason?

What does that have to do with the conversation?

 

[Len Nicodemo]

What does that have to do with the conversation?

Well kind of everything... just because JL came along after the fact doesn’t mean he can’t keep them out of the AUS team

 

[tonygeeks]

Lawson has never recovered after being hit in the head by a bouncer in the Carribean.

Good job by that bouncer , you would think that would stop him getting lippy in the pub but it doesn't look like it


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[wolmeister]

Well kind of everything... just because JL came along after the fact doesn’t mean he can’t keep them out of the AUS team

My comment was a response to someone suggesting Langer brought in the Marshs. He clearly didn't. That has nothing to do with the merits of them being selected or not.

 

[Len Nicodemo]

It’s quite funny that people are paying Lawson out here. He is making a pretty valid point. To date I can’t see doing anything overly inspiring other than just telling us how hard it is to pick a side and how much balance is needed. Come on, you don’t need to think very hard to exclude two players in Sean & Mitch Marsh.

Sean has played close to 40 tests with an average of 35 and Mitch is averaging under 10 in his last 13 tests. Now come on, seriously, you’re not winning tests with them playing. I get Sean is performing highly at shield level, but surely after so much test cricket you need to cut the cord.

At this point you start looking at your next best, and by shield standards that Maxwell &
Wade. Now on to Finch, why open him? Lol, seriously? He bats at 6 at shield level! Burns is the obvious selection as a long form game opener.

Can I also ask what White has done wrong? And what’s Head done right?